Numbers don't lie player development under this Assistant coaching staff has stagnated since 2013

[Alsacs]

We are recruiting top 100 players

2011
MCW 5 star, 1st round NBA pick. 2 years
Rak Christmas 5 star, 2nd round pick, 4 years he developed but he was a 5 star kid.
Cooney 3 star, 5 years

2012
Dejuan Coleman 4 star, 4 years
Jerami Grant 4 star, 2years,2nd round NBA pick

2013
Tyler Ennis 4 star, 1st round pick, 1 year
BJ Johnson 3 star, 2 years transfer
Ron Patterson 3 star, 2 years transfer
Tyler Roberson 4 star,3 years
Chino Obohok, 3 star, 3 years

2014
Chris McCollough 5 star, 1st round pick, 1 year
Kaleb Joseph 4 star, 2 years

2015 thank goodness for this class
Malachi Richardson 4 star, 1 year
Tyler Lydon 4 star, 1 year
Frank Howard 4 star, 1 year

Non-recruit: Mike Gbinije 4 star from Duke. He developed so I guess we can give the staff credit for him but I don't know who.

Our assistants are not developing the talent. Murphy/ and other assistants have been missed. Hopkins can recruit no doubt but what are Gerry/Autry doing on staff? They haven't been great recruiters that is Hop. Who is working with the guard? Who is working with the forwards? Who is working with the Big men?

 

[cliftonparksufan]

We are recruiting top 100 players

2011
MCW 5 star, 1st round NBA pick. 2 years
Rak Christmas 5 star, 2nd round pick, 4 years he developed but he was a 5 star kid.
Cooney 3 star, 5 years

2012
Dejuan Coleman 4 star, 4 years
Jerami Grant 4 star, 2years,2nd round NBA pick

2013
Tyler Ennis 4 star, 1st round pick, 1 year
BJ Johnson 3 star, 2 years transfer
Ron Patterson 3 star, 2 years transfer
Tyler Roberson 4 star,3 years
Chino Obohok, 3 star, 3 years

2014
Chris McCollough 5 star, 1st round pick, 1 year
Kaleb Joseph 4 star, 2 years

2015 thank goodness for this class
Malachi Richardson 4 star, 1 year
Tyler Lydon 4 star, 1 year
Frank Howard 4 star, 1 year

Non-recruit: Mike Gbinije 4 star from Duke. He developed so I guess we can give the staff credit for him but I don't know who.

Our assistants are not developing the talent. Murphy/ and other assistants have been missed. Hopkins can recruit no doubt but what are Gerry/Autry doing on staff? They haven't been great recruiters that is Hop. Who is working with the guard? Who is working with the forwards? Who is working with the Big men?

Let's look at TC, DC, TR and CO, the four who have been in the system the longest.

Cooney is an enigma. No doubt about it. Does a lot of great things but unfortunately shooting for a high % isn't one of them. However he does add value to the team. He was a three star player. I don't have the stats but generally not a lot of three star players are All Americans or NBA draft picks.

DC-unfair even to rate due to multiple injuries. I would still give him an incomplete.

TR-Good TR is great. Not good TR is inconsistent. I think we were all hoping for more consistency this season from TR. As much as we depended on the three point shot, we were also depending heavily on TR to be Dennis Rodman. Offensive game is still right around the basket.

CO-another three star recruit. His HS reviews were much better. We all hoped for a lot and we hoped that he would help with Thomas Bryant. Instead let's give him some props for helping with Chukwu. If Chukwu becomes the next Mutombo then I will give the staff a pass on Chino.

 

[FrancoPizza]

I think it's more that recruiting has just taken a dive. Our punishment has been 3 years of coon dog and 3 years of JB apologizing for this circumstance.

 

[Newhouser]

I'm more worried by the lack of development in Cooney than any player of recent memory. He simply did not improve in 5 years - that is on the staff because we know the kid puts in the work. If G-mac wasn't an alum people would be asking many more questions.

 

[Brooky03]

Wait, what talent are we not developing? 3 stars don't count as talent. And our 4s and 5s seem to have developed just fine, jumping to the NBA and whatnot.

Maybe I'm not understanding OP's post. Kaleb Joseph is just a bust. That's happened at all points in the program's history. Not much you can do there. I'd put the blame on recruiting in his case, not development.

 

[Alsacs]

Let's look at TC, DC, TR and CO, the four who have been in the system the longest.

Cooney is an enigma. No doubt about it. Does a lot of great things but unfortunately shooting for a high % isn't one of them. However he does add value to the team. He was a three star player. I don't have the stats but generally not a lot of three star players are All Americans or NBA draft picks.

DC-unfair even to rate due to multiple injuries. I would still give him an incomplete.

TR-Good TR is great. Not good TR is inconsistent. I think we were all hoping for more consistency this season from TR. As much as we depended on the three point shot, we were also depending heavily on TR to be Dennis Rodman. Offensive game is still right around the basket.

CO-another three star recruit. His HS reviews were much better. We all hoped for a lot and we hoped that he would help with Thomas Bryant. Instead let's give him some props for helping with Chukwu. If Chukwu becomes the next Mutombo then I will give the staff a pass on Chino.

Cooney has been sold to us by JB as the shooter like a Brady Heslip. He is not a shooter. He is a role player being asked to do too much. The kid isn't going to say no that is on the coaching staff. BJ Johnson never got the minutes to show he could do what Cooney did. The staff's lack of developing Cooney is on them. They have made him a star of the team the past 2 years when he wasn't a star player.

Roberson is why we even have a chance at the NCAAT. His Duke game was our best game of the year. The kid isn't consistent by year 3? Isn't that on the staff? This kids has taken more public vitriol the last month from JB than Cooney has in 5 years.

Chino had 1 year taken from him but still in 2 years as a Sophomore/Junior has played in 24 games and a total of 156 minutes. So thru 3 years of his career he has played fewer minutes than Cooney has in his last 6 games.

I like the kid but Chino is eating up a scholarship. If he was brought in to get Bryant he didn't get that done and if he was the reason we got Chukwu which is pure spin anyway you look at it. That kid better bring a lot more than his current expectations are. I don't think the staff has gotten enough criticism for Chino. The guy is eating up a precious scholarship when we only had 10 and is giving a thin team up front nothing.

Player development has been poor. Autry/McNamara what are their responsibilities? Hopkins is an elite recruiter he gets a pass by me not from KaiserUEO but from me.

 

[Alsacs]

Wait, what talent are we not developing? 3 stars don't count as talent. And our 4s and 5s seem to have developed just fine, jumping to the NBA and whatnot.

Maybe I'm not understanding OP's post. Kaleb Joseph is just a bust. That's happened at all points in the program's history. Not much you can do there. I'd put the blame on recruiting in his case, not development.

Cooney was a 4 star by 2 services and a 3 star by 2 services. I put 3 to be fair to the kid.

We haven't developed talent well. Busts are on that staff.

 

[TheCusian]

Cooney was a 4 star by 2 services and a 3 star by 2 services. I put 3 to be fair to the kid. We haven't developed talent well. Busts are on that staff.

I think just looking at our staff's results miss a large portion of the data. How do other schools do? What's the 4* rate of becoming a successful (subjective, I know) college basketball player?

I think we missed on centers/4's in recruiting (either they chose somewhere else or didn't qualify). Rebounding and interior defense is the main issue. DC can't jump and TR/TL are not big enough to block and get rebounds at a high enough rate.

Guard play hasn't been elite - but it's been good enough.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Our assistants are garbage. Not one of them has shown to be a good developer of talent. On top of that they are not very good recruiters. It shouldn't be hard to recruit to a Top 15 program, playing in the Dome, in the ACC, for a HoF HC, while practicing in the Melo center. Our recruiting should be better than it is. IMO we should clean house. Then again these guys are what JB wants so ultimately it is his fault. Imagine if we didn't have a great HC (well I guess we don't have to imagine too hard). We needed him just to finish 10th in the ACC this year. Without him we would have been a lot worse. Hopefully Coyle has an extremely short leash on Esherick Jr.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I think just looking at our staff's results miss a large portion of the data. How do other schools do? What's the 4* rate of becoming a successful (subjective, I know) college basketball player?

I think we missed on centers/4's in recruiting (either they chose somewhere else or didn't qualify). Rebounding and interior defense is the main issue. DC can't jump and TR/TL are not big enough to block and get rebounds at a high enough rate.

Guard play hasn't been elite - but it's been good enough.

Our recruiting of guards has been awful. Mike G isn't a guard. Neither is Malachi. The last 5 recruiting classes we only have Ennis to show for it.

 

[Brooky03]

Cooney was a 4 star by 2 services and a 3 star by 2 services. I put 3 to be fair to the kid.

We haven't developed talent well. Busts are on that staff.

Fair enough, Cooney's the one we can point to as not developing. Roberson was expected to be a 3-4 year player out of high school and that's what he became. He's not as good yet as we'd hoped, but he's far from bad. I don't count him as a player we've developed poorly. Coleman's impossible to gauge due to the injury. And, like I said, Joseph is the fault of our recruiting. The greatest coach of all time wouldn't have turned him into a productive player at this level. The kid held himself back more than anybody else did.

So 1, maybe 1.5 players weren't developed well over a span of a few seasons. Hardly damning.

 

[OrangeDW]

I'm more worried by the lack of development in Cooney than any player of recent memory. He simply did not improve in 5 years - that is on the staff because we know the kid puts in the work. If G-mac wasn't an alum people would be asking many more questions.

LOL, how is it on the staff? There's only so much you can do with that body. He's not a natural athlete. He's spazzy and choppy. If he played football, he'd be the guy jumping too early for passes and not coming down with it. If he played the drums, he'd be offbeat. You know the types.

He's where he is because he works incredibly hard and tries really hard. Credit to him for that.

 

[Ward]

Our assistants are garbage. Not one of them has shown to be a good developer of talent. On top of that they are not very good recruiters. It shouldn't be hard to recruit to a Top 15 program, playing in the Dome, in the ACC, for a HoF HC, while practicing in the Melo center. Our recruiting should be better than it is. IMO we should clean house. Then again these guys are what JB wants so ultimately it is his fault. Imagine if we didn't have a great HC (well I guess we don't have to imagine too hard). We needed him just to finish 10th in the ACC this year. Without him we would have been a lot worse. Hopefully Coyle has an extremely short leash on Esherick Jr.

Saying our assistants are garbage because they are unable to recruit is incredibly inaccurate. There is only so much an assistant can do to convince high level talent to come to Syracuse when the head coach isn't taking an active role in pursuing the kid. When you have a chance listen to some of Francis's podcasts for some insight into the topic but our assistants recruiting ability is not a problem.

 

[Newhouser]

LOL, how is it on the staff? There's only so much you can do with that body. He's not a natural athlete. He's spazzy and choppy. If he played football, he'd be the guy jumping too early for passes and not coming down with it. If he played the drums, he'd be offbeat. You know the types.

He's where he is because he works incredibly hard and tries really hard. Credit to him for that.

but instead he plays 35 minutes a night for us and takes more shots than anyone on the team. Kids get coached up all the time especially basketball IQ wise. To dismiss Cooney's lack of progress as him simply not being a natural athlete is a staff cop out.

 

[OrangeDW]

but instead he plays 35 minutes a night for us and takes more shots than anyone on the team. Kids get coached up all the time especially basketball IQ wise. To dismiss Cooney's lack of progress as him simply not being a natural athlete is a staff cop out.

Nah. He's just not that good. Too much playing time(I agree) is a whole other discussion.

Some guys don't have the bodies/athleticism to grow much. Basically all his issues relate to being spazzy/choppy/lacking smoothness/coordination. He is what he is.

 

[leftytg]

LOL, how is it on the staff? There's only so much you can do with that body. He's not a natural athlete. He's spazzy and choppy. If he played football, he'd be the guy jumping too early for passes and not coming down with it. If he played the drums, he'd be offbeat. You know the types.

He's where he is because he works incredibly hard and tries really hard. Credit to him for that.

i'm 100% with you on Cooney not being a natural athlete. It has always puzzled me when people would laud his athleticism. Sure, he can dunk, but he isn't particularly quick and the elements of athleticism related to grace/smoothness/ease of movement are incredibly deficient in him. He's an incredibly linear player as a result.

On the flip side, though, there's the persistent matter of his poor shooting form - namely the consistent drifting on his jump shot. You don't have to be a fantastic athlete to drill the fundamental of consistently going up and down on your jumper.

 

[Ward]

We are recruiting top 100 players

2011
MCW 5 star, 1st round NBA pick. 2 years
Rak Christmas 5 star, 2nd round pick, 4 years he developed but he was a 5 star kid.
Cooney 3 star, 5 years

2012
Dejuan Coleman 4 star, 4 years
Jerami Grant 4 star, 2years,2nd round NBA pick

2013
Tyler Ennis 4 star, 1st round pick, 1 year
BJ Johnson 3 star, 2 years transfer
Ron Patterson 3 star, 2 years transfer
Tyler Roberson 4 star,3 years
Chino Obohok, 3 star, 3 years

2014
Chris McCollough 5 star, 1st round pick, 1 year
Kaleb Joseph 4 star, 2 years

2015 thank goodness for this class
Malachi Richardson 4 star, 1 year
Tyler Lydon 4 star, 1 year
Frank Howard 4 star, 1 year

Non-recruit: Mike Gbinije 4 star from Duke. He developed so I guess we can give the staff credit for him but I don't know who.

Our assistants are not developing the talent. Murphy/ and other assistants have been missed. Hopkins can recruit no doubt but what are Gerry/Autry doing on staff? They haven't been great recruiters that is Hop. Who is working with the guard? Who is working with the forwards? Who is working with the Big men?

Hop is one of the top 3-5 recruiting assistant coaches in the country in every poll or list that comes out. Red and Gmac are both good recruiters but probably not realistic to expect them to be at Hops level just yet as he is a pretty elite recruiter. Hop has misses too though which has been well documented like taking Joseph over Newton.

Red was huge in getting Ennis here and saved the day for us with Grant and securing his commitment. He brought in Howard who will be a good player for us the next couple years and I very well could be mistaken but I think he was the lead in the McCullough recruitment. He has great ties to the DMV and NYC-NJ area and is doing his part recruiting. Red has been all over Richards early, though I'm a little nervous that he hasn't made it to campus yet.

GMac is pretty new so he doesn't have a huge history to gauge but he's starting to come into this role. He got us Moyer, was doing a great job with Porter that was wasted when JB couldn't be bothered to put much effort forth, and signs are that he is doing job with some of our current targets. Like I said though he doesn't have much of a track record to go off of yet.

What bothers me about our recruiting is that, and JB said this in his show recently, why have we become a school that only recruits regionally? Some years it works out and is great, but if we have all this brand recognition and built up a great program we should be able to pluck kids from all over at a higher rate. We really limit our options when JB decides anywhere over a 2 hour flight is too much of a hassle to go see a kid. It just doesn't make sense and hurts us.

 

[OrangeDW]

Hop is one of the top 3-5 recruiting assistant coaches in the country in every poll or list that comes out. Red and Gmac are both good recruiters but probably not realistic to expect them to be at Hops level just yet as he is a pretty elite recruiter. Hop has misses too though which has been well documented like taking Joseph over Newton.

Red was huge in getting Ennis here and saved the day for us with Grant and securing his commitment. He brought in Howard who will be a good player for us the next couple years and I very well could be mistaken but I think he was the lead in the McCullough recruitment. He has great ties to the DMV and NYC-NJ area and is doing his part recruiting. Red has been all over Richards early, though I'm a little nervous that he hasn't made it to campus yet.

GMac is pretty new so he doesn't have a huge history to gauge but he's starting to come into this role. He got us Moyer, was doing a great job with Porter that was wasted when JB couldn't be bothered to put much effort forth, and signs are that he is doing job with some of our current targets. Like I said though he doesn't have much of a track record to go off of yet.

What bothers me about our recruiting is that, and JB said this in his show recently, why have we become a school that only recruits regionally? Some years it works out and is great, but if we have all this brand recognition and built up a great program we should be able to pluck kids from all over at a higher rate. We really limit our options when JB decides anywhere over a 2 hour flight is too much of a hassle to go see a kid. It just doesn't make sense and hurts us.

John Thompson and Gary Williams supposedly stopped putting the work into recruiting. Hope that's not happening here.

 

[br801]

but instead he plays 35 minutes a night for us and takes more shots than anyone on the team. Kids get coached up all the time especially basketball IQ wise. To dismiss Cooney's lack of progress as him simply not being a natural athlete is a staff cop out.

He doesn't take the most shots, per 40 minutes or in real terms this season (Gbinije does), and Richardson shoots just as much. Gbinije and Richardson also get to the line more frequently. Cooney does take the most 3s.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Saying our assistants are garbage because they are unable to recruit is incredibly inaccurate. There is only so much an assistant can do to convince high level talent to come to Syracuse when the head coach isn't taking an active role in pursuing the kid. When you have a chance listen to some of Francis's podcasts for some insight into the topic but our assistants recruiting ability is not a problem.

Name kids that JB turned down or didn't pursue.

 

[HOFCeluck]

20143 was a disappointing class, and 2014 is looking like a flat out bust. I'm withholding judgement on wether it's a development issue until I see more from this class. But so far it seems promising

 

[Ward]

Name kids that JB turned down or didn't pursue.

Porter, GMac was doing a great job building inroads with him but when every other program's head coach including Coach K and Calipari are coming to see you play and SU is only sending an assistant then you fall out of the race. Monte Morris was dying for an offer from us and came to our Elite camp on his own dime. JB passed on him. Like I said, you're post was inaccurate and to say our assistants are garbage and not very good recruiters is laughable.

 

[Full_Rebar]

Part of the issue might be Boeheim's preference not to get into drawn-out recruiting battles. This isn't a new phenomenon and it's often worked out well (MCW/Grant are recent examples), but in other cases SU has lost. When you combine this with the NCAA uncertainty, it magnifies the problem. This is a very flawed roster, and I don't know that we can say it's just one thing.

I find it hard to say our coaches aren't developing players when it's clear how much better Rak was last year, or what the program has done without the kind of impact players that other schools have had. We haven't had a NBA All-Star since Melo, yet we've had some of the best overall seasons in program history. Some credit has to go to the staff for being able to achieve those results, no?

 

[Deano]

Name kids that JB turned down or didn't pursue.

Trevon Duval - Class of 17. Once he moved to Texas he gave up which was stupid. That's the kind of PG that SU has been lacking for years!

 

[Townie72]

Cooney was a 4 star by 2 services and a 3 star by 2 services. I put 3 to be fair to the kid.

We haven't developed talent well. Busts are on that staff.

Recruiting services rankings (Stars) are really flaky. You know it and I know it.

Putting all the responsibility for player improvement on the AC's is tenuous. We both know that. It's borrowing the old military theory that the commander has to be responsible regardless.

But the curiosity is why you and others on here are so hell-bent on assigning BLAME.

It's the "search for the Guilty" that follows disappointment and frustration, I guess.