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O Line

I think this is the problem. Experience can be overrated if the players are just average.
Exactly. And that's why you see so many guys at other positions getting leapfrogged. McFarlane and Morris are "experienced." But they're absolutely not as good as Fredericks.

Based on what I saw yesterday, I also think that Dowels and Hudson look better than Whigham, who's still out there, I'm assuming, in large part due to his "experience."
 
Exactly. And that's why you see so many guys at other positions getting leapfrogged. McFarlane and Morris are "experienced." But they're absolutely not as good as Fredericks.

Based on what I saw yesterday, I also think that Dowels and Hudson look better than Whigham, who's still out there, I'm assuming, in large part due to his "experience."
I will be shocked if Whigham is still out there at the end of the season.
 
Exactly. And that's why you see so many guys at other positions getting leapfrogged. McFarlane and Morris are "experienced." But they're absolutely not as good as Fredericks.

Based on what I saw yesterday, I also think that Dowels and Hudson look better than Whigham, who's still out there, I'm assuming, in large part due to his "experience."

If Whigham's remaining time at SU was spent just on special teams, I would not shed a tear. He gave up the only two pass plays that went over 20 yards. We all remember the TD in OT but he also got lost on the 22 yard pass on 3rd and 10 that would have forced a punt. Instead drive stays alive and they score a TD to make it 24-21.
 
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I would hope they are looking at juco tackles although I haven't seen any indication from the recruiting site.

Would like to get this guy back for the oline.
http://www.kcchiefs.com/team/coache...48e6-a03c-cfa82f26d9ef?qwr=fullsite_temporary

Adkins is the oline coach at ok state so no way he would come back.

On a side note really don't like the empty set double wing formation. It's like running a double te empty set with worse blockers in the event the defense blitzes, which they did on Saturday.
 
Adam stinks and is the main reason that a veteran line blows. He doesnt have the chops to coach any of these young kids. The guy needs to go period
 
kcsu said:
Adam stinks and is the main reason that a veteran line blows. He doesnt have the chops to coach any of these young kids. The guy needs to go period

Do you know he doesn't coach the tackles who have been an issue too? He's G's and C. Moreland is T's and TE's. Since our TE's haven't been anything special maybe Moreland is a problem.
 
Adam stinks and is the main reason that a veteran line blows. He doesnt have the chops to coach any of these young kids. The guy needs to go period

The main reason the veteran line blows is that they are subpar compared to our peer programs. No offense to our kids--I root for them all--but we have two legitimate P5 starters. Maybe 3, if you include Emerich, who wasn't a starter at the beginning of the season, and has nailed the fort down.

This is another instance of our fanbase overrating the talent on hand. We have several guys starting who just aren't that good. Here's hoping the next group who are currently redshirting [other than Conway] are better than the incumbents.
 
pfft what O line they couldn't block to save their lives that's why Dungey had to take off running so many times and evade sacks. If you re-watch the game the o linemen touches the defender once then lets him through to the backfield.
 
Do you know he doesn't coach the tackles who have been an issue too? He's G's and C. Moreland is T's and TE's. Since our TE's haven't been anything special maybe Moreland is a problem.
Moreland is not the problem. Our TE talent was weak to begin with and we have been hurt by injuries. Foy is playing as good as he has ever played. Our G's are sucking wind and they should be the strength of our team. Adam is in over his head
 
kcsu said:
Moreland is not the problem. Our TE talent was weak to begin with and we have been hurt by injuries. Foy is playing as good as he has ever played. Our G's are sucking wind and they should be the strength of our team. Adam is in over his head

They only showed the grades for 1 game, USF, but Emmerich graded out the highest and he's a C. And our T's have been as bad as our G's. The whole OL has struggled.
 
They only showed the grades for 1 game, USF, but Emmerich graded out the highest and he's a C. And our T's have been as bad as our G's. The whole OL has struggled.
I agree its kind of like asking which fish stinks the worst. I know i rag on Adam but it is really on Lester and Shafer. For the life of me how do you hire a coach who has no experience to coach the most important part of your O? Its beyond me.
 
kcsu said:
I agree its kind of like asking which fish stinks the worst. I know i rag on Adam but it is really on Lester and Shafer. For the life of me how do you hire a coach who has no experience to coach the most important part of your O? Its beyond me.

Should they have hired Moreland?
 
Should they have hired Moreland?
Should they have hired Moreland?
Yes. Especially for the TE part of the job. Guy played the position at a very high level. Set records at Western and has a solid back ground coaching the position for multiple years. As to the OT side i dont know.
 
Honest question: How many FBS programs have their TE position coach also coach the tackles?
Oh, and who is Joe Adam?!
 
Imho id rank their performances as Foy, Emerich, Palmer, Trudo and Robinson.

You could maybe flip flop Palmer and Trudo but Palmer is Palmer playing out of position. Trudo has been a disappointment and Robinson has been awful.

Call Pat Perles during the off season.

Time to dump Adam and Reed.
 
Isn't OL experience one of Phil Steele's predictors? Usually players who are 21-23 and have spent time in a college S&C program are stronger and can use that in the trenches against younger players. That doesn't seem to be working out at all for SU right now.

Maybe it's Hicks, maybe it's Adam/Moreland, and maybe it's some of the play design. That fumble seemed like it was caused by a DE who was allowed to go unblocked and was in position to tackle either Dungey or Erv.
 
Isn't OL experience one of Phil Steele's predictors? Usually players who are 21-23 and have spent time in a college S&C program are stronger and can use that in the trenches against younger players. That doesn't seem to be working out at all for SU right now.

Maybe it's Hicks, maybe it's Adam/Moreland, and maybe it's some of the play design. That fumble seemed like it was caused by a DE who was allowed to go unblocked and was in position to tackle either Dungey or Erv.

Taking unit by unit across the team, we aren't all that great in the secondary, at TE, at QB other than Dungey (who came in good), at RB other than Fredericks (same as Dungey). LBs and DEs should be stopping the run -- but that hasn't been happening, despite Daoust's talent as a position coach.

The OL struggles because there isn't a top talent in the bunch. Trudo got pre-season mention, but isn't playing at that level. As an OL, they aren't physical enough to get a yard or two in short yardage. They are a tad undersized compared to other ACC lines. Our tackles were shifted out from OG because our recruiting whiffed on the OTs we wanted.

If it were only Joe Adam, wouldn't you expect improvement with Moreland taking the OTs?
 
If Shafer is back next year he should think about bringing on the Illinois OL coach. He coached for 13 seasons at MD so he knows the conference and the recruiting area. There is a connection to Shafer via Cubit. Since Illinois will be hiring a new HC, the guy will likely be looking for a job.
 
Curious as to what people would like to seen done with the oline. Given the depth chart released I don't expect to see anything new. But as a fan I can sit back and say they haven't produced. So what would you do?

I would either get moo moo (that's mcgloster) or Conway in at RT, move Palmer to RG and put trudo at LG. Keep foy and emerich as is.
 
Curious as to what people would like to seen done with the oline. Given the depth chart released I don't expect to see anything new. But as a fan I can sit back and say they haven't produced. So what would you do?

I would either get moo moo (that's mcgloster) or Conway in at RT, move Palmer to RG and put trudo at LG. Keep foy and emerich as is.
OLine has to be ONE cohesive unit... Having one coach handle C/G and another coach handle T is like a car having two drivers, one controlling the left wheel and one controlling the right wheel...
 
OLine has to be ONE cohesive unit... Having one coach handle C/G and another coach handle T is like a car having two drivers, one controlling the left wheel and one controlling the right wheel...
Even NASCAR throws in a road course every now and then.
 
We can point the finger at whoever we want all day long. All of these posts are a reflection on Shafer. Either he makes some major changes somewhere in the staff this year, or he gets the ax. It was his responsibility from day one to get coaches that are accountable for their positions. Get rid of the problems at the end of this year and get some good knowledgeable coaches that will show player improvement, rather than hiring more of your buddies. Sorry, not trying to be a sour grape but it is what it is.
 
Our o line seems to always play better with better talent.

We have had some pretty good lineman in here past 7-8 years when you think about it, right now not seeing much. Macky being one of them. Adam is just shooting fish in a barrell really and I'm not saying his drawers are lily white in this but I think it's a combo of 4 things. Talent, coaching, S&C (specific programs kids are following ) and continuing changing schemes on offense. The lack of consistency never helps, 3 ol coaches in 3 years as well. Perles seemed to be pretty good. I don't think you will find a better combo of ol coach than when marrone/ young craig stadler ( forget his name) were here but we also had some talent there to, at least talent that was coached up significantly.

Even the JUCO kid who was good for a personal foul every game would be better than any of these tackles. AT least he played with a mean streak.

That said people complained about O line when Marrone was here questioning his acumen. It's always the same thing. Mitch Browning was perceived as one of the best OL coaches in college football when he came here, guys bitched about him too. He did make the line lose a bunch of weight though. I am sure he looked at Hicks and asked What are you doing with these guys? I remember countless posts to the tune of " I thought Marrone was an offensive line coach before he became an OC and HC". I probably said same thing, like I said people always bitch about O line. O Line sucked when McNabb was here too. The end of 2012 the last 5-6 games was the best O Line play we have had in 20 years.

Hicks makes fat guys fatter, slow and fat kids, slower and fatter. makes skinny kids bigger/ stronger, makes fast athletes bigger but slower. Been that way for years. Josh Thomas, Kimmel, C jones, couple other tweeners at D Line. all kids that hicks was good for, big lanky athletes/ big frames who can can put weight on. Freak athletes with huge work ethic like Bullock, S Thomas and Freeney doesn't matter, I could train them after a 3 night bender and find time for a 4th night. Certain kids don't do anything and get away with it, Mike Williams, Sales, Marinovich. Everywhere else he is terrible, IMO

Hicks is the dinosaurs of all dinosaurs. He's the commodore 64/ Atari 400 of S&C coaches. He's like the old entry mat that comes with a house when you buy it. You never get rid of it but not even the dog wipes his paws on it because its so old and ratty.

Shafer made the bed, it's his ship and he will go down with it.
 
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