Observation

[billsin01]

And this just in, it was already stated that we lack quality depth. So injuries or losses of front line players make a bigger impact. And we're also talking before the season started.

But a good chunk of this staff has been here for seven years or so. Lack of depth is on the coaches.

 

[rrlbees]

But a good chunk of this staff has been here for seven years or so. Lack of depth is on the coaches.

We haven't recruited quality depth in 15 years. All impact the depth chart. We are playing some players who a year ago were projected to be 3rd team or even scout team.

Hunt
Broyld
Moore
Roberts
Dunk
Johnson
A DL whose name escapes me
Williams
Morgan
Long
Eskridge

You could also include kids who've missed games here or there.

Dungey
R Williams
Archie
Phillips
Bennett

I'm sure there are some I'm missing on both lists

 

[anomander]

We haven't recruited quality depth in 15 years. All impact the depth chart. We are playing some players who a year ago were projected to be 3rd team or even . . . . . team. Hunt Broyld Moore Roberts Dunk Johnson A DL whose name escapes me Williams Morgan Long Eskridge You could also include kids who've missed games here or there. Dungey R Williams Archie Phillips Bennett I'm sure there are some I'm missing on both lists

I get what you mean about the pre season departures, but every school losses kids for 1 reason or the other. The lose of Isiah Johnson was probably the most significant, but that's a school policy that basically forced him into retirement. I think it was Marcus Coleman you were thinking of for the other DT, but again I'd chalk that up to the average off season losses. Usually happens every year, to every program. The only really significant in-season injury was Hunt, and I think most people would agree that worked out for the best for everyone (minus Terrell). There really isn't anyone else on that list that missed the entire season because of injury. Compare that to every other program in the ACC and I bet we stack up very nicely. We had a really lucky season with injuries, but we were due a good year since last year was so dreadful. The thing with injuries is they all even out. You will have your good years, and your bad. You just have to make sure you capitalize on the good years, and that's something we failed miserably on this season.

 

[orangenirvana]

Sometimes it is.

But in this instance we know a few things.

The competition has gotten progressively tougher.

That is a fact.

We also know that we are playing a lot of young players - we are very young on the DL.

We also know that we have lost players - Rodney Williams, Arcinega, Franklin, Bennett, Thompson and others.

We don't have much depth - that's why we are playing so many true Frosh on the DL.

So the idea that we are regressing on defense simply because of coaching I think is probably unfair.

I don't consider Louisville tougher competition than LSU. So no, it's not a fact.

Whether we like it or not, these teams are our peers. If we can't be competitive with them or pull some of them out - and along the way we see boneheaded decisions from the head coach - then I'm sorry but drastic changes need to be made.

There are so many talented candidates out there who should be given an opportunity. Shafer received a gift by Marrone leaving when he did. He got his opportunity and it hasn't worked out. It's okay.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I don't consider Louisville tougher competition than LSU. So no, it's not a fact.

Whether we like it or not, these teams are our peers. If we can't be competitive with them or pull some of them out - and along the way we see boneheaded decisions from the head coach - then I'm sorry but drastic changes need to be made.

There are so many talented candidates out there who should be given an opportunity. Shafer received a gift by Marrone leaving when he did. He got his opportunity and it hasn't worked out. It's okay.

We can be competitive with our peers and we don't need to spend 4 million on a HC to get there. Like I said the question with the next coach is how much can we spend to try and keep him? This will get done but it wont get done with the current staff, scheme, or model

 

[MikeSU02]

Bees has a point re better competition, but I'd argue that if we had talent that was getting better, you'd see splashes of it here and there. Not seeing one or two (or more...gasp!) plays a game from kids that make me think we've got upper-level talent for our conference.

I think this is a good point.

You can see the talent with ED and some of the other players, but not enough glimpses to give me hope that we can play toe to teo with most teams.

ED has regressed, probably from wear and tear (and the better competition). Our express backs have absolutely no D1 abilities when it comes to fundamentals for receiving, our defense is challenged at almost every position.

I truly believe that ED can own most of the passing records by the time he leaves SU. I think he is a legitimate NFL-level talent (in a few years).

But, overall, I'm not seeing enough of the plays that make me think we can really compete with the mid and upper tier ACC teams, especially with the coaching decisions that are happening each game.

 

[AAM62]

Syracuse football is in an awful spot right now and hasn't had many bright spots in 15 years. Getting excited about this program being relevant someday is like hoping Santa is going to deliver a Tesla with a bow on it to my front lawn. It makes zero sense to be excited about much of anything here. If you want to be super positive it's cool but not realistic.

Said nothing about being super positive but we have duplicate threads about the same and everyone is talking like the world is burning.

 

[NineOneSeven]

And this just in, it was already stated that we lack quality depth. So injuries or losses of front line players make a bigger impact. And we're also talking before the season started.

Cool

 

[billsin01]

Said nothing about being super positive but we have duplicate threads about the same . . . . and everyone is talking like the world is burning.

It's a message board. That's what people do. It is annoying at times but it's not changing.

 

[Crusty]

Its funny anytime someone tries to bring up a positive post the same 15 -20 people on.

Isn't that what a forum is for - to express different points of view?

 

[billsin01]

We haven't recruited quality depth in 15 years. All impact the depth chart. We are playing some players who a year ago were projected to be 3rd team or even . . . . . team.

Hunt
Broyld
Moore
Roberts
Dunk
Johnson
A DL whose name escapes me
Williams
Morgan
Long
Eskridge

You could also include kids who've missed games here or there.

Dungey
R Williams
Archie
Phillips
Bennett

I'm sure there are some I'm missing on both lists

I'm not doubting the issues with injuries but I'm saying they happen everywhere and you need to build your roster to the point where they don't kill you. Now should the roster be at 95 instead of 85 given all the injuries? Maybe. Do I think it's fair to suggest that some guys are far more fungible than others? Absolutely. Do i think shafer has been hit with some bad luck? Yeah. I just think lack of depth is something you can use for a year or two, maybe three, but if you consider shafer has been here for seven years, I really don't think he has much leg to stand on in terms of blaming someone else for those issues.

 

[Crusty]

It appears that way but I can say definitively because the level of competition is much tougher now than those first 3. Plus we do have depth issues and haven't been able to adequately cover up for injuries. A year ago some of the guys playing on defense were supposed to be the depth, not the starters. And then when we get injuries like last game missing 3 starters who may have been depth guys a year ago, we're now down to the 3rd next man up. And they're playing against better comp than RI, Wake and CMU.

Tough call to just say we aren't improving IMO. It doesn't feel like we are but is it apples to apples?

Another view is that we were simply exposed by better competition. Lester's scheme is simply a failure. We have no injuries excuse on the offense so we jump to the youth excuse.

At some point it is simply a poor system. I have tried over and over again to rationalize our performance, but it is beyond my ability to find any redemption. ACC defensive coordinators seem to need about two quarters to figure out how to stop it. It is worse than ever McDonald's and near the bottom of CFB.

It's coaching.

 

[cuseguy]

Another view is that we were simply exposed by better competition. Lester's scheme is simply a failure. We have no injuries excuse on the offense so we jump to the youth excuse. At some point it is simply a poor system. I have tried over and over again to rationalize our performance, but it is beyond my ability to find any redemption. ACC defensive coordinators seem to need about two quarters to figure out how to stop it. It is worse than ever McDonald's and near the bottom of CFB. It's coaching.

It's mostly talent.

I give up.

 

[Crusty]

It's mostly talent.

I give up.

Three years in and we are dropping to the bottom of the ACC. Someone please explain to me a coaching success on the offensive side of the football. Even fewer penalties can be mostly explained by fewer plays!

Where can we look? What one thing is there to use as an example of good coaching?

 

[TheCusian]

Three years in and we are dropping to the bottom of the ACC. Someone please explain to me a coaching success on the offensive side of the football. Even fewer penalties can be mostly explained by fewer plays! Where can we look? What one thing is there to use as an example of good coaching?

Red zone %, red zone TD %

 

[Millhouse]

Red zone %, red zone TD %

last year's numbers are hard to believe. 9 tds in 27 possessions

they've had a massive 75% improvement to merely bad this year

it's possible that the n zone isn't a great red zone offense. i think mazzone relies on screens more than other spread teams but i don't watch much ucla

 

[TheCusian]

last year's numbers are hard to believe. 9 tds in 27 possessions they've had a massive 75% improvement to merely bad this year it's possible that the n zone isn't a great red zone offense. i think mazzone relies on screens more than other spread teams but i don't watch much ucla

It's literally all I could find that was good LET ME HAVE IT YOU CRUEL STAT VILLAIN CURSE YOU

 

[Crusty]

Red zone %, red zone TD %

We are 79th in td% conversations.

 

[Millhouse]

It's literally all I could find that was good LET ME HAVE IT YOU CRUEL STAT VILLAIN CURSE YOU

75% improvement is nothing to sneeze at

 

[TheCusian]

We are 79th in td% conversations.

Maybe that's the issue. Too much conversation little more action please

 

[Crusty]

Maybe that's the issue. Too much conversation little more action please

Ha ha very good. Need a little jocularity!

 

[orangenirvana]

Three years in and we are dropping to the bottom of the ACC. Someone please explain to me a coaching success on the offensive side of the football. Even fewer penalties can be mostly explained by fewer plays!

Where can we look? What one thing is there to use as an example of good coaching?

There is no good coaching or bad coaching. Just talent.

Baylor, for example, didn't begin annually dominating teams on offense until they began to land the best talent in the country. Briles arriving at the same time was merely a coincidence.

That's why the NFL is chock full of Baylor alums on offense dominating the Pro Bowl rosters every year.

At least that's what a few SU fans would have you think.

 

[Crusty]

Teaching technique doesn't matter, system doesn't matter, scheme doesn't matter, game planning doesn't matter, play calling doesn't matter, in game adjustments don't matter, clock management doesn't matter? Who knew?

 

[Statesman1]

It's mostly talent.

I give up.

I agree with both of you- seeing as how recruiting is the 1st and most important responsibility of coaches (and we have failed there) and the coaches have failed to develop the limited talent we do have or out scheme our opponents (as evidenced by consistent 2nd half collapses). It's hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[RMH44]

Those young players you mention are not progressing. For the second season in a row the team is getting worse as the season goes along.

Well-coached teams with talented young players make progress and are better in games 10-12 than they were in games 1-3. Can you honestly say we're seeing that?

Gotcha...and I guess the quality of the opponent has nothing to do with your hypothesis?