Odds on LeVar

[Briancuse]

Who is Earl Williams? Richard is the name of the father of Venus and Serena.

I think he meant Earl Woods, Tiger's dad.

 

[OrangeDW]

Agreed.
In fact, was listening to Sirius the other day and they mentioned that at that price point, he needed to sell somewhere in the neighborhood of, and don't quote me here, 2 to 300,000 units, to realize a profit. Putting aside any of the moral aspects of the situation and looking at it from a strictly business perspective, I think he can get to those numbers, especially if Lonzo ends up being ROY or something like that. He doesn't need to sell all of the merchandise, just a certain percentage.
Lavar Ball is a huckster, plain and simple. Folks who laugh at him and don't recognize the method to the madness can look at figures like Kim Khardashian, PT Barnum, Vince McMahon, Earl Williams and the Williams sisters, heck despite your political bent, even our current POTUS, Donald J. Trump. Show business and bombastic "look at me" behaviour sells in this country, and Lavar Ball is just the latest example.

I just can't imagine him selling that many shoes, even if Lonzo has an amazing year. I've said this before, but the highest priced signature sneakers: Lebrons and Kobe's, are always available at discounts within a few months, and then at even bigger discounts at the Nike outlets a few months after that. And we're talking $175-$200 retail, not $500. And we're talking legendary players and a typically high quality product with a reputable brand name. And even they seem to be coming up short, sales wise. People aren't shelling out that much for bball shoes these days. I see the lesser priced models - Kyrie's, Paul George's, Curry's, and Lebrons takedown model Soldiers all over the courts...shoes that are closer to $100.

These Lonzo sneakers have none of that going for it. Maybe a few rich celebrities trying to be supportive will buy them. Can't imagine too many normal people doing so.

 

[Eric15]

I just hope Lonzo is able to manage his finances independently from his father, and isn't manipulated by him.

 

[Eric15]

These assumptions are funny. How do you know his son doesn't enjoy it? He doesn't need you to feel bad for him.

The script has been flipped on absentee fathers in the lives of athletes so him being as visible as he is comes as a shock. Makes sense as a poster just mentioned that he'd prefer to see Jayson Tatum's mother as opposed to Ball.

Is there a healthy medium between Lavar Ball and absentee father, or are those the only two choices available?

 

[DoctorBombay]

Who is Earl Williams? Richard is the name of the father of Venus and Serena.

Actually meant BOTH Richard Williams and Earl Woods, father of Tiger. I can remember when both of those guys were being talked about in the same way that Lavar Ball is being talked about today. Again, say something outrageous or controversial to get attention, and if your kid has the goods, you're on your way.

 

[MiniCuse]

Actually meant BOTH Richard Williams and Earl Woods, father of Tiger. I can remember when both of those guys were being talked about in the same way that Lavar Ball is being talked about today. Again, say something outrageous or contorversial to get attention, and if your kid has the goods, you're on your way!

Yeah, I remember, too, when the two fathers, along with Tiger, Venus and Serena were being talked about in the same way as Lavar. I don't find any of them controversial or outrageous.

 

[Briancuse]

I just can't imagine him selling that many shoes, even if Lonzo has an amazing year. I've said this before, but the highest priced signature sneakers: Lebrons and Kobe's, are always available at discounts within a few months, and then at even bigger discounts at the Nike outlets a few months after that. And we're talking $175-$200 retail, not $500. And we're talking legendary players and a typically high quality product with a reputable brand name. And even they seem to be coming up short, sales wise. People aren't shelling out that much for bball shoes these days. I see the lesser priced models - Kyrie's, Paul George's, Curry's, and Lebrons takedown model Soldiers all over the courts...shoes that are closer to $100.

These Lonzo sneakers have none of that going for it. Maybe a few rich celebrities trying to be supportive will buy them. Can't imagine too many normal people doing so.

Even if I was loaded and had the money I wouldn't buy those shoes, because first of all they aren't that nice, and Ball is an a-hole.

 

[DoctorBombay]

I just can't imagine him selling that many shoes, even if Lonzo has an amazing year. I've said this before, but the highest priced signature sneakers: Lebrons and Kobe's, are always available at discounts within a few months, and then at even bigger discounts at the Nike outlets a few months after that. And we're talking $175-$200 retail, not $500. And we're talking legendary players and a typically high quality product with a reputable brand name. And even they seem to be coming up short, sales wise. People aren't shelling out that much for bball shoes these days. I see the lesser priced models - Kyrie's, Paul George's, Curry's, and Lebrons takedown model Soldiers all over the courts...shoes that are closer to $100.

These Lonzo sneakers have none of that going for it. Maybe a few rich celebrities trying to be supportive will buy them. Can't imagine too many normal people doing so.

Decided to look it up. The numbers may be much lower than I thought as per his making a profit.
Here's how many pairs of $495 sneakers LaVar, Lonzo Ball reportedly sold so far

 

[Briancuse]

Yeah, I remember, too, when the two fathers, along with Tiger, Venus and Serena were being talked about in the same way as Lavar. I don't find any of them controversial or outrageous.

People mocked Earl Woods, and they owe him an apology, because ever since he passed away, Tiger has gone off the rails.

 

[OrangeDW]

Even if I was loaded and had the money I wouldn't buy those shoes, because first of all they aren't that nice, and Ball is an a-hole.

Right, it's just completely out of wack with the market. I could buy 3 or 4 pairs of shoes that most likely all perform better and look better, for the same price.

 

[DoctorBombay]

Yeah, I remember, too, when the two fathers, along with Tiger, Venus and Serena were being talked about in the same way as Lavar. I don't find any of them controversial or outrageous.

Earl Woods was saying things like Tiger was the "messiah" of golf, long before Tiger became Tiger. And Richard Williams? He'd show up at Venus and Serena's matches and act a straight up fool! Yes, both men definitely had their share of "controversial" and, at the time, "outrageous" statements and behaviour.

 

[OrangeDW]

Decided to look it up. The numbers may be much lower than I thought as per his making a profit.
Here's how many pairs of $495 sneakers LaVar, Lonzo Ball reportedly sold so far

I'm interested to see what happens. If I recall, the delivery date of the shoes is in November. As far as I can see, these pairs of shoes don't even exist yet. Will be interesting to see what happens, and what the quality is like.

 

[MiniCuse]

Earl Woods was saying things like Tiger was the "messiah" of golf, long before Tiger became Tiger. And Richard Williams? He'd show up at Venus and Serena's matches and act a straight up fool! Yes, both men definitely had their share of "controversial" and, at the time, "outrageous" statements and behaviour.

So what? It happens in sports, it's nothing new or shocking.

 

[DoctorBombay]

So what? It happens in sports, it's nothing new or shocking.

Not sure I get your point. Of course it happens in sports and the many examples show that its definitely nothing new. The "shocking" part is when a man says his 14-year old amateur golfing son will be the greatest of all time, or a tennis Dad says his 2 pre-teen girls will take over tennis and win more championships than anyone before them. Now, just because both those statements ended up being largely true, didn't make them uncontroversial at the time they were said!
Lavar Ball is saying that Lonzo is better than 2-time MVP Steph Curry, or that the Lakers will make the playoffs next year just because his son is on the team. Even if all that does happen, its a controversial and shocking statement RIGHT NOW.
Also, Richard Williams and Earl Woods made plenty of controversial statements outside the realm of sports, particularly in regards to race. Lavar Ball may be more obnoxious or calculating about his schtick, but he definitely qualifies as "shocking and outrageous", IMO.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Not sure I get your point. Of course it happens in sports and the many examples show that its definitely nothing new. The "shocking" part is when a man says his 14-year old amateur golfing son will be the greatest of all time, or a tennis Dad says his 2 pre-teen girls will take over tennis and win more championships than anyone before them. Now, just because both those statements ended up being largely true, didn't make them uncontroversial at the time they were said!
Lavar Ball is saying that Lonzo is better than 2-time MVP Steph Curry, or that the Lakers will make the playoffs next year just because his son is on the team. Even if all that does happen, its a controversial and shocking statement RIGHT NOW.
Also, Richard Williams and Earl Woods made plenty of controversial statements outside the realm of sports, particularly in regards to race. Lavar Ball may be more obnoxious or calculating about his schtick, but he definitely qualifies as "shocking and outrageous", IMO.

No question. When he actually gets on camera he behaves like a complete loudmouth, madman, and buffoon as well. It's disturbing.

 

[MiniCuse]

Not sure I get your point. Of course it happens in sports and the many examples show that its definitely nothing new. The "shocking" part is when a man says his 14-year old amateur golfing son will be the greatest of all time, or a tennis Dad says his 2 pre-teen girls will take over tennis and win more championships than anyone before them. Now, just because both those statements ended up being largely true, didn't make them uncontroversial at the time they were said!
Lavar Ball is saying that Lonzo is better than 2-time MVP Steph Curry, or that the Lakers will make the playoffs next year just because his son is on the team. Even if all that does happen, its a controversial and shocking statement RIGHT NOW.
Also, Richard Williams and Earl Woods made plenty of controversial statements outside the realm of sports, particularly in regards to race. Lavar Ball may be more obnoxious or calculating about his schtick, but he definitely qualifies as "shocking and outrageous", IMO.

I thought my point was clear. I never found Mr. Woods or Williams controversial. Bombast and bragadocio have always been part of sports. And, as you mentioned, they were right. As far as Lavar's comments, I guess we'll see.
I'm not going to get into the race thing on here, that's a topic I don't discuss on the sports boards of this forum. But I will say, IMO, that 99% of any race "controversy" with the fathers was directed at them and their progeny and not the other way around.

 

[DoctorBombay]

I thought my point was clear. I never found Mr. Woods or Williams controversial. Bombast and bragadocio have always been part of sports. And, as you mentioned, they were right. As far as Lavar's comments, I guess we'll see.
I'm not going to get into the race thing on here, that's a topic I don't discuss on the sports boards of this forum. But I will say, IMO, that 99% of any race "controversy" with the fathers was directed at them and their progeny and not the other way around.

I too, don't want to turn this into a RACE discussion- that's totally beside the point of what we're both saying. But here are a couple of quotes from Earl Woods. To say they're not, at the very least, "controversial"...well, you be the judge.

Earl Woods talking about Tiger playing in Scotland/British Open:
“That’s for white people. It’s the heart of golf for people who came from there. It sucks as far as I’m concerned. It is the sorriest weather and I’ve made the public statement that people had better be happy that the Scots lived there instead of soul brothers. The game of golf would have never been invented. We would have been inside listening to jazz and we wouldn’t have been stupid enough to go out in that weather and play a silly-ass game and freeze yourself to death. We would have been inside laughing and joking with rum and stuff. Now, Africa … I played golf in Africa and I knew I was home.”
And:
"Tiger will do more than any other man in history to change the course of humanity. He is the Chosen One. He'll have the power to impact nations. Not people. Nations."—Earl Woods, Tiger's father
Earl Woods, pressed to justify his belief that his son could have greater humanitarian influence than Nelson Mandela, Gandhi, or the Buddha, explained that Tiger "has a larger forum than any of them. Because he's playing a sport that's international."

And this quote about Richard Williams sounds eerily familiar to what's being said about Lavar Ball.

"When people ask me if Richard's crazy, I say, 'Yeah, crazy like a fox'," says a former tennis instructor who worked with the girls in their early teens. "He may pull that simple thing on you, but it's all a farce." Indeed, Williams is so savvy that he managed to get his family out of Compton and into the sports-history books. But that same determination may have strained his family relationships. People close to the Williamses say the sisters struggle with their father's reputation. "They're good girls, but they often get overshadowed by their father and his antics," says a former Women's Tennis Association player. "People project their dislike for him onto them, and that's a difficult place for them to be." If the sisters are upset with their father's behavior, however, they don't let on publicly."

Obviously, I don't want to focus on "controversial" versus "bombastic", and anyone can pick and choose statements that fit either definition. My point is that what Lavar is doing is no different than what alot of "stage" parents have done in the past. At least from a purely marketing perspective, I believe he's a genius, much like Kris Jenner of the Khardashians. Lonzo and the Lakers will be the biggest draw in the NBA next season, in large part because of his father, Lavar Ball. JMHO

 

[MiniCuse]

I too, don't want to turn this into a RACE discussion- that's totally beside the point of what we're both saying. But here are a couple of quotes from Earl Woods. To say they're not, at the very least, "controversial"...well, you be the judge.

Earl Woods talking about Tiger playing in Scotland/British Open:
“That’s for white people. It’s the heart of golf for people who came from there. It sucks as far as I’m concerned. It is the sorriest weather and I’ve made the public statement that people had better be happy that the Scots lived there instead of soul brothers. The game of golf would have never been invented. We would have been inside listening to jazz and we wouldn’t have been stupid enough to go out in that weather and play a silly-ass game and freeze yourself to death. We would have been inside laughing and joking with rum and stuff. Now, Africa … I played golf in Africa and I knew I was home.”
And:
"Tiger will do more than any other man in history to change the course of humanity. He is the Chosen One. He'll have the power to impact nations. Not people. Nations."—Earl Woods, Tiger's father
Earl Woods, pressed to justify his belief that his son could have greater humanitarian influence than Nelson Mandela, Gandhi, or the Buddha, explained that Tiger "has a larger forum than any of them. Because he's playing a sport that's international."

And this quote about Richard Williams sounds eerily familiar to what's being said about Lavar Ball.

"When people ask me if Richard's crazy, I say, 'Yeah, crazy like a fox'," says a former tennis instructor who worked with the girls in their early teens. "He may pull that simple thing on you, but it's all a farce." Indeed, Williams is so savvy that he managed to get his family out of Compton and into the sports-history books. But that same determination may have strained his family relationships. People close to the Williamses say the sisters struggle with their father's reputation. "They're good girls, but they often get overshadowed by their father and his antics," says a former Women's Tennis Association player. "People project their dislike for him onto them, and that's a difficult place for them to be." If the sisters are upset with their father's behavior, however, they don't let on publicly."

Obviously, I don't want to focus on "controversial" versus "bombastic", and anyone can pick and choose statements that fit either definition. My point is that what Lavar is doing is no different than what alot of "stage" parents have done in the past. At least from a purely marketing perspective, I believe he's a genius, much like Kris Jenner of the Khardashians. Lonzo and the Lakers will be the biggest draw in the NBA next season, in large part because of his father, Lavar Ball. JMHO

I need to find me a Scottish jazz club.

 

[Hoo's That]

Earl Woods was saying things like Tiger was the "messiah" of golf, long before Tiger became Tiger. And Richard Williams? He'd show up at Venus and Serena's matches and act a straight up fool! Yes, both men definitely had their share of "controversial" and, at the time, "outrageous" statements and behaviour.

One of the biggest things about Williams was the suspicion that he chose who would win when the sisters played each other. Was it reasonable? We'll never know.

 

[CuseMan4]

I absolutely cannot stand Lavar but I really like Lonzo. A lot of people hate lonzo because of Lavar which is kinda low in my opinion. To me Lonzo is extremely mature and has a very good head on his shoulders for the situation he's in. How many teenagers with Lavar as your dad and the spotlight Lonzo is in would handle the situation better than him? I feel bad for him, he almost never missteps, handles questions better than his dad, doesn't talk himself up and stays quiet. I give the kid a ton of props.

 

[Briancuse]

I absolutely cannot stand Lavar but I really like Lonzo. A lot of people hate lonzo because of Lavar which is kinda low in my opinion. To me Lonzo is extremely mature and has a very good head on his shoulders for the situation he's in. How many teenagers with Lavar as your dad and the spotlight Lonzo is in would handle the situation better than him? I feel bad for him, he almost never missteps, handles questions better than his dad, doesn't talk himself up and stays quiet. I give the kid a ton of props.

I don't think its low, its just reality, which is sad, and which is why his dad is causing more harm than good, I like Lonzo's game, but I have a really tough time rooting for him because of his clown father.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Actually meant BOTH Richard Williams and Earl Woods, father of Tiger. I can remember when both of those guys were being talked about in the same way that Lavar Ball is being talked about today. Again, say something outrageous or controversial to get attention, and if your kid has the goods, you're on your way.

I think there is/was a huge difference. Richard Williams made a couple of bombastic prognostications. They turned out to be true. But, i don't recall him doing anything in an undignified manner, unless you characterize predicting black sisters dominating a white sport as undignified. He didn't mug and act the clown. I think he just said these things in an interview, and they were received as 'ignorant arrogance.' People did reject the comments, because, hey - the guy had no tennis background, and the family was coming out of Compton. Seemed farfetched, and people treated it that way.

No idea what Earl Woods said (i don't recognize golf as a 'sport'), but again, i doubt if he was a preening schmuck when he said it.

Neither of these people insulted women, or made race-baiting comments either, did they?

 

[two3zone]

Saw this posted on Facebook

3 Sons
3 All State All Stars
3 Full Scholarships to UCLA
2 Future NBA Players (1 current)
4.0 GPAs according to the LA Times.
No Reported Criminal Issues
1 California HS State Championship
1 Million dollar brand built for his family with his last name. 1 excited father! We should be celebrating this! I don't see the problem! Keep talking Lavar! His grocery bill must be off the chain! How has he been feeding them is the real question.

 

[SUfanNC]

People mocked Earl Woods, and they owe him an apology, because ever since he passed away, Tiger has gone off the rails.

Or possibly Earl held on too tight and now that Earl is gone Tiger doesn't know how to make a sound decision.

 

[OrangeDW]

Saw this posted on Facebook

I always laugh when the "no criminal charges" thing comes up. An old Chris Rock bit always comes to mind: "What you want, a cookie? You're not supposed to go jail you low expectation having mfer!"

No question the kids have been successful academically and athletically, and Lonzo seems like a good kid(he's the only one I've followed so far). Most things aren't black and white. I'm sure the guy has done a lot of good for his family. I can overlook the clown interviews and declarations as harmless.

As I said before, I do have a problem with the BS he pulled with his sons HS team. That's garbage.