Class of 2016 OLB Solomon Manning (NJ) Verbal to Rutgers

[Rocco]

This is also why this staff needs 3 more years to get all the kinks worked out and get consecutive recruiting classes in and really see what they can do with their kids in their system.

Exactly, but the new AD needs to be all-in with Shafer & Co if that is going to happen. We will find out soon.

 

[GoSU96]

This is also why this staff needs 3 more years to get all the kinks worked out and get consecutive recruiting classes in and really see what they can do with their kids in their system.

I'm going to point this out again:

1) Shafer didn't come in off the street cold and the program wasn't a disaster that needed "to get all the kinks worked out" when he took over.
2) What's with the "their kids", Shafer has been at SU going into his 7th season. All the players on the roster are "their kids".
3) He owns the McF'it error and the setbacks that has caused.

He won't go three more years like last year, regardless of the reasons. As he says he's not in the excuse business.

Is recruiting continue to improve, absolutely. Robinson and the complete program failure is in the rear view mirror, the team has been competitive, last year not withstanding, and there have been substantial improvements in facilities and perception.

I think Shafer deserves a mulligan for last year but recruiting while improved isn't to the level where he gets a blank check either.

 

[jr4750]

I'm going to point this out again:

1) Shafer didn't come in off the street cold and the program wasn't a disaster that needed "to get all the kinks worked out" when he took over.
2) What's with the "their kids", Shafer has been at SU going into his 7th season. All the players on the roster are "their kids".
3) He owns the McF'it error and the setbacks that has caused.

He won't go three more years like last year, regardless of the reasons. As he says he's not in the excuse business.

Is recruiting continue to improve, absolutely. Robinson and the complete program failure is in the rear view mirror, the team has been competitive, last year not withstanding, and there have been substantial improvements in facilities and perception.

I think Shafer deserves a mulligan for last year but recruiting while improved isn't to the level where he gets a blank check either.

Go whats your prediction for this season, record wise? Sorry if I missed it in another thread.

 

[TheCusian]

I'm going to point this out again:

1) Shafer didn't come in off the street cold and the program wasn't a disaster that needed "to get all the kinks worked out" when he took over.
2) What's with the "their kids", Shafer has been at SU going into his 7th season. All the players on the roster are "their kids".
3) He owns the McF'it error and the setbacks that has caused.

He won't go three more years like last year, regardless of the reasons. As he says he's not in the excuse business.

Is recruiting continue to improve, absolutely. Robinson and the complete program failure is in the rear view mirror, the team has been competitive, last year not withstanding, and there have been substantial improvements in facilities and perception.

I think Shafer deserves a mulligan for last year but recruiting while improved isn't to the level where he gets a blank check either.

This is hardly the place, but here goes:

1. Fallacy #1 is that Marrone left this program in a healthy state. He didn't. He failed to recruit elite/very good offensive players at WR and QB. He then took all of the offensive coaches. You can make the case that he saw the writing on the wall and left while his stock was high - because he knew we were in trouble on the offensive side of the ball. ALSO: The defense has gotten better while Shafer has been HC.

So your contention that it "didn't need to get the kinks worked out" is a sad distortion of the facts. The train wreck on offense was obvious.

2. Shafer recruited defensive guys. The defense has been good.
He also pivoted from what Marrone was doing almost immediately to get players Marrone wouldn't take that year. So, yeah - he was on staff, but he didn't agree with Marrone's assessments.
This staff is light years better at recruiting than Marrones. Sure the wind is at their back being in the ACC and having the IPF, but they are doing pretty well. The proof of this is how many underclassmen are the future right now: Ish, Franklin, Cordy, etc. Where are the stud seniors?! (Answer: on someone elses team, because Marrone didn't find them, recruited JUCO too hard, etc.). Add in this years haul (only at what 6 players?) and it's crazy to think we won't be better in the near future. But the staff needs time to see that fruit.

3. I agree. This is the single worse decision he made as HC. He deserves all of the blame on that.

 

[JrodCuse]

I'm not saying lets bury our heads in the sand and ignore things. But at the same time assuming we see improvement in the O and the D stays relatively consistent with the past few years you have to see that the future is trending upwards.

Marrone really did leave this program in a tough situation on the offensive side of things. He wasn't good at recruiting playmakers and he left at arguably the worst time, when we lost an NFL QB and WR, and really had nothing behind them depth-wise.

 

[TheCusian]

I'm not saying lets bury our heads in the sand and ignore things. But at the same time assuming we see improvement in the O and the D stays relatively consistent with the past few years you have to see that the future is trending upwards.

Marrone really did leave this program in a tough situation on the offensive side of things. He wasn't good at recruiting playmakers and he left at arguably the worst time, when we lost an NFL QB and WR, and really had nothing behind them depth-wise.

Interesting thought experiment:

- HC ?
- OC : Marrone
- DC : Shafer
- Same staff, with IPF, in ACC

 

[PhatOrange]

I'm going to point this out again:

1) Shafer didn't come in off the street cold and the program wasn't a disaster that needed "to get all the kinks worked out" when he took over.
2) What's with the "their kids", Shafer has been at SU going into his 7th season. All the players on the roster are "their kids".
3) He owns the McF'it error and the setbacks that has caused.

He won't go three more years like last year, regardless of the reasons. As he says he's not in the excuse business.

Is recruiting continue to improve, absolutely. Robinson and the complete program failure is in the rear view mirror, the team has been competitive, last year not withstanding, and there have been substantial improvements in facilities and perception.

I think Shafer deserves a mulligan for last year but recruiting while improved isn't to the level where he gets a blank check either.

#1 and #2 are partially true, but it's an entirely different staff with different philosophies. Marrone signed off on who the offers went out to and made the decision to bring in all the Juco's which are wreaking havoc on the numbers right now especially with the defense. He also brought in 1.5 QBs in Hunt and Austin Wilson.

Shafer should get the full 5 years so his first class of redshirt freshman are seniors and considering the talent is clearly being upgraded he should get time. Not going to win in the ACC with underclassmen.

 

[anomander]

This is hardly the place, but here goes:

1. Fallacy #1 is that Marrone left this program in a healthy state. He didn't. He failed to recruit elite/very good offensive players at WR and QB. He then took all of the offensive coaches. You can make the case that he saw the writing on the wall and left while his stock was high - because he knew we were in trouble on the offensive side of the ball. ALSO: The defense has gotten better while Shafer has been HC.

So your contention that it "didn't need to get the kinks worked out" is a sad distortion of the facts. The train wreck on offense was obvious.

2. Shafer recruited defensive guys. The defense has been good.
He also pivoted from what Marrone was doing almost immediately to get players Marrone wouldn't take that year. So, yeah - he was on staff, but he didn't agree with Marrone's assessments.
This staff is light years better at recruiting than Marrones. Sure the wind is at their back being in the ACC and having the IPF, but they are doing pretty well. The proof of this is how many underclassmen are the future right now: Ish, Franklin, Cordy, etc. Where are the stud seniors?! (Answer: on someone elses team, because Marrone didn't find them, recruited JUCO too hard, etc.). Add in this years haul (only at what 6 players?) and it's crazy to think we won't be better in the near future. But the staff needs time to see that fruit.

3. I agree. This is the single worse decision he made as HC. He deserves all of the blame on that.

Totally agree with everything you said, except for the improved perception part.

I really can't understand how people can honestly say the program wasn't left in good shape when Marrone left? We had just come off our best season in the past 15, and were a legit top 20 program at the end of the season. The offensive line had a young, solid core to move forward with. Nobody can blame the quarterback situation on Marrone. He had 2 signed, and we lost the more highly regarded one. Was Marrone supposed to recruit for Shafer?

Marrone's last couple years we were at least to a point where we were at least competitive in every single game. There has been some very troubling results in Shafer's first 2 years in terms of game planning, discipline, and in-game adjustments. We really need to pump the brakes on giving him 5 more years. This is a big year for him. 3 year starter, and Senior quarterback (who was recruited by Marrone), and now almost all Shafer guys. He needs a signature win in the worst way.

 

[anomander]

Marrone really did leave this program in a tough situation on the offensive side of things. He wasn't good at recruiting playmakers and he left at arguably the worst time, when we lost an NFL QB and WR, and really had nothing behind them depth-wise.

I'm not buying this. He left a very good, and young offensive line (probably the most important unit on the field), a solid group at RB, and a WR in Jarrod West that had a very good Sophomore season. Plus those guys were recruited for an entirely different scheme. So instead of playing to your guys strengths, a totally different offense was shoved down their throats. It's Marrone's fault McDonald was trying to run bubble screens with Ben Lewis? The program just wasn't left in that bad of shape where we would go on to get blown out 4 times the following season. The Georgia Tech game sticks out like a sore thumb.

 

[TheCusian]

Totally agree with everything you said, except for the improved perception part.

I really can't understand how people can honestly say the program wasn't left in good shape when Marrone left? We had just come off our best season in the past 15, and were a legit top 20 program at the end of the season. The offensive line had a young, solid core to move forward with. Nobody can blame the quarterback situation on Marrone. He had 2 signed, and we lost the more highly regarded one. Was Marrone supposed to recruit for Shafer?

Marrone's last couple years we were at least to a point where we were at least competitive in every single game. There has been some very troubling results in Shafer's first 2 years in terms of game planning, discipline, and in-game adjustments. We really need to pump the brakes on giving him 5 more years. This is a big year for him. 3 year starter, and Senior quarterback (who was recruited by Marrone), and now almost all Shafer guys. He needs a signature win in the worst way.

I don't think we are disagreeing all that much. I think you're right in that the perception of the program was at nice high vs the previous 15. I just think it's wrong to assume that it wasn't going to dip back no matter what when Nassib left - then even further when the offensive staff bolted too. I don't think we can say Zach Allen would have been a star as a true freshman. That it even got worse than all that was Shafer's fault (Mcit).

I also think that the line did a nice job in the last two years outside of the one game vs Villanova - and then again when the line injuries and QB shuffling left a bad taste in our mouths at the end of last season. How much of that was scheme? The line looked solid running Marrone's offense because the system put them in a spot to succeed. Mcit's seemed to do the opposite...

 

[TheCusian]

I'm not buying this. He left a very good, and young offensive line (probably the most important unit on the field), a solid group at RB, and a WR in Jarrod West that had a very good Sophomore season. Plus those guys were recruited for an entirely different scheme. So instead of playing to your guys strengths, a totally different offense was shoved down their throats. It's Marrone's fault McDonald was trying to run bubble screens with Ben Lewis? The program just wasn't left in that bad of shape where we would go on to get blown out 4 times the following season. The Georgia Tech game sticks out like a sore thumb.

Naw - it's both. No QB, No great WR / horrible OC. West was the 3rd WR Nassib's last year. I'm not sure he was even #1 WR material.

 

[anglerman]

This is hardly the place, but here goes:

1. Fallacy #1 is that Marrone left this program in a healthy state. He didn't. He failed to recruit elite/very good offensive players at WR and QB. He then took all of the offensive coaches. You can make the case that he saw the writing on the wall and left while his stock was high - because he knew we were in trouble on the offensive side of the ball. ALSO: The defense has gotten better while Shafer has been HC.

So your contention that it "didn't need to get the kinks worked out" is a sad distortion of the facts. The train wreck on offense was obvious.

2. Shafer recruited defensive guys. The defense has been good.
He also pivoted from what Marrone was doing almost immediately to get players Marrone wouldn't take that year. So, yeah - he was on staff, but he didn't agree with Marrone's assessments.
This staff is light years better at recruiting than Marrones. Sure the wind is at their back being in the ACC and having the IPF, but they are doing pretty well. The proof of this is how many underclassmen are the future right now: Ish, Franklin, Cordy, etc. Where are the stud seniors?! (Answer: on someone elses team, because Marrone didn't find them, recruited JUCO too hard, etc.). Add in this years haul (only at what 6 players?) and it's crazy to think we won't be better in the near future. But the staff needs time to see that fruit.

3. I agree. This is the single worse decision he made as HC. He deserves all of the blame on that.

Spot on super accurate te and objective post !

 

[RF2044]

I'm not buying this. He left a very good, and young offensive line (probably the most important unit on the field), a solid group at RB, and a WR in Jarrod West that had a very good Sophomore season. Plus those guys were recruited for an entirely different scheme. So instead of playing to your guys strengths, a totally different offense was shoved down their throats. It's Marrone's fault McDonald was trying to run bubble screens with Ben Lewis? The program just wasn't left in that bad of shape where we would go on to get blown out 4 times the following season. The Georgia Tech game sticks out like a sore thumb.

We also won every 50-50 game Shafer's season, except one. So there were positive signs, as well--and reason to believe that after a strong finish, we were trending in the right direction after a rough start.

Last year was a huge step backwards, IMO. Yes, I acknowledge all of the injuries. But the staff has a LOT of proving to do this year. Again, my opinion only--but there were some serious red flags last year. To me, those were far more troublesome than anything we saw in year 1.

 

[GoSU96]

This is hardly the place, but here goes:

1. Fallacy #1 is that Marrone left this program in a healthy state. He didn't. He failed to recruit elite/very good offensive players at WR and QB. He then took all of the offensive coaches. You can make the case that he saw the writing on the wall and left while his stock was high - because he knew we were in trouble on the offensive side of the ball. ALSO: The defense has gotten better while Shafer has been HC.

So your contention that it "didn't need to get the kinks worked out" is a sad distortion of the facts. The train wreck on offense was obvious.

2. Shafer recruited defensive guys. The defense has been good.
He also pivoted from what Marrone was doing almost immediately to get players Marrone wouldn't take that year. So, yeah - he was on staff, but he didn't agree with Marrone's assessments.
This staff is light years better at recruiting than Marrones. Sure the wind is at their back being in the ACC and having the IPF, but they are doing pretty well. The proof of this is how many underclassmen are the future right now: Ish, Franklin, Cordy, etc. Where are the stud seniors?! (Answer: on someone elses team, because Marrone didn't find them, recruited JUCO too hard, etc.). Add in this years haul (only at what 6 players?) and it's crazy to think we won't be better in the near future. But the staff needs time to see that fruit.

3. I agree. This is the single worse decision he made as HC. He deserves all of the blame on that.

This program in 2012 had the 16th best combined offensive and defensive rank total in the country. Therefore Shafer did not inherit a program that was a disaster, which is all I said. That's not an unhealthy state.

A total disaster, an unhealthy state is where this program was after 2008, which was the 118th combined rank out of 120 teams.

The idea that Shafer gets a pass because he took over a bad program is the fallacy. If that was the case, why hire from within?

 

[jekelish]

This program in 2012 had the 16th best combined offensive and defensive rank total in the country. Therefore Shafer did not inherit a program that was a disaster, which is all I said. That's not an unhealthy state.

A total disaster, an unhealthy state is where this program was after 2008, which was the 118th combined rank out of 120 teams.

The idea that Shafer gets a pass because he took over a bad program is the fallacy. If that was the case, why hire from within?

I don't think he inherited a total disaster. But he didn't inherit the 2012 roster. The most important pieces of that offense were gone by the time Shafer took over.

 

[TheCusian]

This program in 2012 had the 16th best combined offensive and defensive rank total in the country. Therefore Shafer did not inherit a program that was a disaster, which is all I said. That's not an unhealthy state. A total disaster, an unhealthy state is where this program was after 2008, which was the 118th combined rank out of 120 teams. The idea that Shafer gets a pass because he took over a bad program is the fallacy. If that was the case, why hire from within?

The offense WAS very good. But almost all of the major contributors left. So citing 2012 offensive stats without citing the losses is disingenuous.

The defense was very good. And it still is. That's why Shafer is our head coach.

What he needs to fix is the offense. And Mcit was a major mistake. I'm not giving him a pass for that. But to expect no drop off from 2012 to 2013 even IF Marrone and Hackett stuck around would have been a touch crazy. But to expect that with all we lost in players and coaches is insane.

 

[RF2044]

I don't think he inherited a total disaster. But he didn't inherit the 2012 roster. The most important pieces of that offense were gone by the time Shafer took over.

The offense WAS very good. But almost all of the major contributors left. So citing 2012 offensive stats without citing the losses is disingenuous.

The defense was very good. And it still is. That's why Shafer is our head coach.

What he needs to fix is the offense. And Mc. . . . it was a major mistake. I'm not giving him a pass for that. But to expect no drop off from 2012 to 2013 even IF Marrone and Hackett stuck around would have been a touch crazy. But to expect that with all we lost in players and coaches is insane.

Spot on, both of you.

 

[JrodCuse]

The most important reasons of why our offense was ranked so high in 2012 all left prior to the 2013 season. So to say, "well we were in a great position when Shafer stepped in as coach because of our 2012 stats" is a very misleading premise.

 

[GoSU96]

I don't think he inherited a total disaster. But he didn't inherit the 2012 roster. The most important pieces of that offense were gone by the time Shafer took over.

Where did I say that he did.

 

[jekelish]

Where did I say that he did.

It's the implication by citing the 2012 stats. You're basically saying that because the numbers in 2012 were good, he didn't inherit a disaster, despite the fact that the people responsible for those offensive stats were no longer here in 2013.

 

[Finwad32]

The only thing I want to add to this is:

I don't believe Jarrod West was a guy that should've been carrying the torch for the group. Yes, he is the 7th all time leading receiver, and he had a commendable year last year in the face of a lot of issues. But, his sophomore season, as probably the 3rd or 4th option on the team was nearly as productive as his SR. season. And, a big part of that production, was because nobody knew what to do with Lemon and Provo, then Sales, so I think alot of his production came from the fact that defenses were accounting more for other targets.

But, this is not something that was Marrone's fault either. West was a highly regarded recruit, whom many here thought would come in and be an option as a True FR until he broke his foot.

He was literally, one of our only targets this past season. Ish stepped up as the season went on, but, other than that we had literally nothing. Ben Lewis was our 3rd leading receiver. Love the kid, but, our numbers were anemic.

Honestly, I think our WR core is better now than it has been in awhile. Alec Lemon was invaluable, but Ish and AC on the edge with Brisly in the slot sounds alot better to me than Sales and West to go with Lemon. That's not even bringing Ashton Broyld, Erv Phillips, Ben Lewis and Jamal Custis into the fold. Also, Avant and Adly could contribute as well. We are deeper as a group now than before.

I had a coach tell me that the single biggest injury this past season was not Terrell Hunt, it was most likely Broyld and Brisly. Our offense was predicated on what they could do in the slot and with the bubbles in a lot of scenarios. They were the personnel that the offense was going to depend on mostly.

 

[GoSU96]

The offense WAS very good. But almost all of the major contributors left. So citing 2012 offensive stats without citing the losses is disingenuous.

The defense was very good. And it still is. That's why Shafer is our head coach.

What he needs to fix is the offense. And Mc. . . . it was a major mistake. I'm not giving him a pass for that. But to expect no drop off from 2012 to 2013 even IF Marrone and Hackett stuck around would have been a touch crazy. But to expect that with all we lost in players and coaches is insane.

Good lord. Learn how to read.

In what way am I close to implying that there ever should have been an expectation that the team was supposed to perform at the SAME level. Never said that, ever.

Same time he shouldn't be treated as if he was inheriting a program that was starting from scratch.

Stop with the dopey strawman nonsense.

 

[Finwad32]

Furthermore, as much as Ish did last year, he's up 20 lbs of muscle without losing any speed or quickness. He is an NFL caliber guy after his JR. year, a true #1. AC is no slouch, best footwork on the team, and he's done what's necessary from a work standpoint to put himself in a position to showcase it. I don't think that him and GM got along very well, hence why he disappeared after an encouraging FR campaign.

This staff is bringing in talent, now, it's just a matter of utilizing it.

Marrone's staff did much more, with much less honestly.

 

[TheCusian]

Good lord. Learn how to read. In what way am I close to implying that there ever should have been an expectation that the team was supposed to perform at the SAME level. Never said that, ever. Same time he shouldn't be treated as if he was inheriting a program that was starting from scratch. Stop with the dopey strawman nonsense.

You know what - you're right. I apologize except for the part where you said he didn't "inherit a total disaster"... It's semantics, sure - but you could make the case that leaving when he did (a few weeks before signing day), losing who we did to graduation, and who he took with him coaching wise - that's exactly what he inherited on offense. Why did they bring in Allen?!

 

[anomander]

So Marrone, doesn't get any credit for his game planning in 2012? It's not like Sales, Lemon, Bailey, and Provo were these elite talents. None of them even sniffed the NFL other then Lemon being on a practice squad. Sure Nassib, and Pugh were big losses, but our OL was still a strength the following year, and Nassib was developed into the player he became.

The success of the 2012 team has just as much to do with coaching as it did talent.