Open Practice Report

[billsin01]

You do realize they had more pass attempts than rushing last year, right?

You do realize they had more passing attempts than rushes in the first half last year, right?

I suppose you think they were one sided in trying to establish the run in the first quarter, except for the fact that they had more passing attempts than rushes in the first quarter last year.

There were 30 more carries on first down than passes last year. The ratio was a lopsided 195 rushes to 165 passes. Oops.

So much for being focused on establishing the run.

I'd still take an offensive version of shafer (maybe that's hackett, but the point remains the same).

 

[billsin01]

And then Marrone, the offensive guru from N.O., would just coach specials and TEs and leave the offense to a new coordinator?
It isn't going to happen and it shouldn't. Hackett is proving his worth on the recruiting trails (he was cited positively by both QB recruits and Tyler Provo), and will prove his worth as an OC. Just his third year in the program and only his second as OC. He didn't have a lot to work with last season -- should be different this time around.

On the first part, DM has plenty to worry about other than specials and TEs. In fact, one could argue the most important parts of DM's jobs are those not involved in the week-to-week coaching of specific units. And, as horribly as we've played on specials, maybe spending a lot more time on that could be a good thing.

But, to TC's original point -- things have to change. They might. We could all be sitting here six weeks in marveling at the progress of the offense and projecting just how good our offensive numbers will end up being, etc. That could truly happen.

It's just hard to quite buy into it b/c it certainly hasn't looked that way the last three years and it's hard, for me at least, to get over the nagging suspicion that as a head coach DM is naturally risk-averse. Is that a bad thing? Perhaps not.

Regardless, it will be interesting to watch.

 

[DNABB5]

He is an idiot savant on Football Scouting/Recaps. You can be sitting next to him talking to him while he is hurling insults at the opposing coaches...you'll miss half the action but he sees all. Amazing memory recall. He is our gift to the board.

Truly. I feel like I need to learn how to brew old fashioned Ginger Ale.

 

[SoBristol]

On the first part, DM has plenty to worry about other than specials and TEs. In fact, one could argue the most important parts of DM's jobs are those not involved in the week-to-week coaching of specific units. And, as horribly as we've played on specials, maybe spending a lot more time on that could be a good thing.

But, to TC's original point -- things have to change. They might. We could all be sitting here six weeks in marveling at the progress of the offense and projecting just how good our offensive numbers will end up being, etc. That could truly happen.

It's just hard to quite buy into it b/c it certainly hasn't looked that way the last three years and it's hard, for me at least, to get over the nagging suspicion that as a head coach DM is naturally risk-averse. Is that a bad thing? Perhaps not.

Regardless, it will be interesting to watch.

I can understand that fans don't like the offensive output so far.

For sure, Marrone is a run-first, meat & potatoes guy, and Hackett is executing an offensive philosophy under Marrone. If you don't like that style of offense, you won't be happy this year either. It won't be a pass-first aerial circus or a track meet with big-strikes. Our new weapons are a big slot back (Broyld) and a big TE (Thompson) and two 300 plus lbs linemen. You can do the math.

On the main point (should Marrone hire a new veteran OC and step back) -- I feel Doug would be frustrated, as he was in his first year, if his OC had a philosophy differing from his own. If the coach played offense, coached OLs and was an OC in the pros, he should have close involvement with the offense.

My bottom line is this -- negativity about Hackett is pointless. He is making progress both as a recruiter and an offensive coach. Marrone likes him.

 

[kcsu]

You do realize they had more pass attempts than rushing last year, right?

You do realize they had more passing attempts than rushes in the first half last year, right?

I suppose you think they were one sided in trying to establish the run in the first quarter, except for the fact that they had more passing attempts than rushes in the first quarter last year.

There were 30 more carries on first down than passes last year. The ratio was a lopsided 195 rushes to 165 passes. Oops.

So much for being focused on establishing the run.

Did you know that the highest completions of passes on a percentage basis in college and the NFL occurs on First down. Guess which down has the lowest... Thats right third down. The reason we had more pass attempts last year was that our horrible play calling put us in third and long too many times. You sound like Obama trying to spin the recent unemployment numbers.

 

[SmilinBob]

Good stuff there Tom, thanks and thanks to all of you that posted your comments on this thread and others.

The o-line worries me and they are going to be the key to our success. If this d-line steps up and can penetrate like I hope, they can help the LB's and D Backfield gain some confidence and experience. If a DB is being beat and the wr is running free and then the qb is sacked and doesn't have a chance to get him the ball, it helps the young guy knowing he has his back covered. Not only that but also a chance to get some nice picks as well so I...like always am rooting hard for that DLine to make or force some things to happen quicker than the opposing offense wants them too.

I see Davis's big play potential but I didn't like his fundamentals in tackling face to face. Lynch just seems to play bigger than he is to me. Shark is a undersized lb (I know he's a SS...semantics I suppose) he's that is a ball seeking missile and by the reports that hasn't changed. I really am glad that Loeb is grasping the O but I'd still like to see him get rid of the ball quicker and snap the sideline passes better...nice touch though.

I'm pretty excited, more than I originally thought, about the RB's. If Morris can be what I thought Collier was going to be I'll be quite happy with this group and it's great to hear that the bus has slimmed down to an SUV while hopefully still extremely hard to tackle.

If Lemon and Sales can do what I think they can do (at least that's what Dennis Green told me) and they stay healthy, Stevens, and the rest will have a better time of finding soft spots in the coverage. I'll be honest, the rest of the WR has a lot of work to do to impress and make an impact from I've seen. I want separation and have yet to see that from them as of yet and from the reports that still is true.

Wilkes has never really impressed me and with his size he has to not make as many mistakes or if he does, make more impact plays. I hope the young speed coming up gets him to do so and if they don't they are good enough to replace him.

This is the most excited I've been about our D-Line since Freeney and I really hope they play as well as I think they they are going to...those reports sound wonderful but I can not help to think it's because our O-Line isn't that strong. I want to be proved wrong and find out that the DLine is that good and our OLine is a good unit as well!

 

[kcsu]

Good stuff there Tom, thanks and thanks to all of you that posted your comments on this thread and others.

The o-line worries me and they are going to be the key to our success. If this d-line steps up and can penetrate like I hope, they can help the LB's and D Backfield gain some confidence and experience. If a DB is being beat and the wr is running free and then the qb is sacked and doesn't have a chance to get him the ball, it helps the young guy knowing he has his back covered. Not only that but also a chance to get some nice picks as well so I...like always am rooting hard for that DLine to make or force some things to happen quicker than the opposing offense wants them too.

I see Davis's big play potential but I didn't like his fundamentals in tackling face to face. Lynch just seems to play bigger than he is to me. Shark is a undersized lb (I know he's a SS...semantics I suppose) he's that is a ball seeking missile and by the reports that hasn't changed. I really am glad that Loeb is grasping the O but I'd still like to see him get rid of the ball quicker and snap the sideline passes better...nice touch though.

I'm pretty excited, more than I originally thought, about the RB's. If Morris can be what I thought Collier was going to be I'll be quite happy with this group and it's great to hear that the bus has slimmed down to an SUV while hopefully still extremely hard to tackle.

If Lemon and Sales can do what I think they can do (at least that's what Dennis Green told me) and they stay healthy, Stevens, and the rest will have a better time of finding soft spots in the coverage. I'll be honest, the rest of the WR has a lot of work to do to impress and make an impact from I've seen. I want separation and have yet to see that from them as of yet and from the reports that still is true.

Wilkes has never really impressed me and with his size he has to not make as many mistakes or if he does, make more impact plays. I hope the young speed coming up gets him to do so and if they don't they are good enough to replace him.

This is the most excited I've been about our D-Line since Freeney and I really hope they play as well as I think they they are going to...those reports sound wonderful but I can not help to think it's because our O-Line isn't that strong. I want to be proved wrong and find out that the DLine is that good and our OLine is a good unit as well!

Good report. I agree on the WR's im not very excited about any of the new kids which is why i think that Quinta is such a huge pick up. He will provide us with a true number one next year.

 

[GoSU96]

Did you know that the highest completions of passes on a percentage basis in college and the NFL occurs on First down. Guess which down has the lowest... Thats right third down. The reason we had more pass attempts last year was that our horrible play calling put us in third and long too many times. You sound like Obama trying to spin the recent unemployment numbers.

45/55 on first down. That's the fact.

 

[OrangeTown]

Fundaburk is really impressive in drills. Has size, strength and speed, and a lot of confidence too. If he was allowed to play this year, it would be huge for this unit. Lewis is skinny than I was hoping for, don't think he plays this year until there is a rash of injuries at WR.

Tom, it is only due to the fact that you write such amazing recaps that I will forgive the fact that your inner Nostradomus is forecasting doom for our passing game...

 

[kcsu]

45/55 on first down. That's the fact.

45/55 on first down. That's the fact.

Go are the those the stats as to number of passes vs runs on first down by SU last year? If so im surprised thx

 

[GoSU96]

Go are the those the stats as to number of passes vs runs on first down by SU last year? If so im surprised thx

Those are and were stated in the post you were responding to.

 

[All4SU]

Our new weapons are a big slot back (Broyld) and a big TE (Thompson) and two 300 plus lbs linemen. You can do the math.

I would add Sales to the '"new weapon" category as well.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

The other big concern I have is with our offense. I think we are slowly getting better in terms of talent and I think we will be better this season, but the scheme needs to be better too. We can't try all season to hold the ball all game long with a power running attack, especially when the other team knows exactly what is coming. The staff should know change is needed, they have experience at QB and WR, there is no reason why things can't be opened up. Call me a doubting Thomas but I am going to have to see it to believe it.

I want to believe. I really do.

That exactly sums up my feelings on the offense.

 

[Millhouse]

The other big concern I have is with our offense. I think we are slowly getting better in terms of talent and I think we will be better this season, but the scheme needs to be better too. We can't try all season to hold the ball all game long with a power running attack, especially when the other team knows exactly what is coming. The staff should know change is needed, they have experience at QB and WR, there is no reason why things can't be opened up. Call me a doubting Thomas but I am going to have to see it to believe it.

I want to believe. I really do.

we were 31st in the country in % of plays that were passes.

i wouldn't call that trying to hold the ball all game long with a power running attack.

for those who just want to compare to big east teams, only WVU threw on more of their plays.

how much do people want this guy to throw the ball?

aye yi yi

 

[money3189]

We threw the ball alot. Dont know if people realize that. What makes it look like we dont is the lack of down field completions. ALot of our catches come from TE slide and sit routes. WR's catches are from digs, slants, and deep outs. But we really do have a good balance of run/pass. two years ago, when we had carter is more like what is being described. The funny thing is it seem like we had more big pass plays that year than last. I know we didn't have sales but, The year before we had some big plays to chew ( w virginia game) lemon (louisville) sales ( k state). We attempted to throw down the field more that year, even if they weren't completions we still tried. Strange that we didn't even try last year

 

[JeremyCuse]

we were 31st in the country in % of plays that were passes.

i wouldn't call that trying to hold the ball all game long with a power running attack.

for those who just want to compare to big east teams, only WVU threw on more of their plays.

how much do people want this guy to throw the ball?

aye yi yi

Right but how many of those were 5 yard slants, swing passes, flares, and our favorite pass play of all time the TE drag. You can throw the ball 90% of the time but if your only getting 4-5 yard completions most of this time then its basically a running play. Plus I would love to know how many of those passes were actually completed. We need to throw the ball in more intermediate areas 8-15 yards and take a few more shots down the field say 20-35 yards in order to open things up. We all would like 40-50 yard bombs but its pretty clear at this point Nassib cant make that pass with any sort of accuracy or consistency.

 

[JeremyCuse]

We threw the ball alot. Dont know if people realize that. What makes it look like we dont is the lack of down field completions. ALot of our catches come from TE slide and sit routes. WR's catches are from digs, slants, and deep outs. But we really do have a good balance of run/pass. two years ago, when we had carter is more like what is being described. The funny thing is it seem like we had more big pass plays that year than last. I know we didn't have sales but, The year before we had some big plays to chew ( w virginia game) lemon (louisville) sales ( k state). We attempted to throw down the field more that year, even if they weren't completions we still tried. Strange that we didn't even try last year

Good point about at least trying some deep passes two years ago versus last year, I was also surprised we didnt try at least a few more deep plays if nothing more then to keep the defense honest. We also seemed to get away from the screen play last year after running a bunch of them two years ago. Teams continued to kill us with that bubble and junk screen but we only ran it a few times last year and I can't remember a rb screen or WR screen during the 5 game losing streak.

 

[upperdeck]

people need to really watch the games and not just the results. teams need to complete passes when they call them. teams need to be able to run on 3rd and short because passes only work 50-60% of the time, 3rd and 1 should be more like 75-80% of the time or better outside the red zone.

nothing has killed this team more the last few years than calling a perfect set of plays to set up the big play and then having it fail for lack of execution. teams with play makers are the other extreme. they can call plays that are total failures yet someone turns it into first downs or td's. McNabb did that so many times to save SU. how many plays do you remember in the DM era where a player made someone miss and turned it into a big play. PTG looked like someone who could do that and then he got hurt. you have to go back a ways to find guys at SU that made people miss. Carter did a bit, Mungro did a lot. Who was the last rcvr that turned simple plays into big ones? KJ/harrison?

 

[SWC75]

They averaged 4.3 yds per carry on first down. And as I pointed out the run/pass ratio was 55/45, hardly the profile of a team that is one sided and stubborn in play selection.

And considering they started the year 5-1 whatever they were trying to do early couldn't have been that awful.

They started the year 5-2 and looked nearly as bad in the first five as they did in the last five. Hackett's quote came after the USC game, in which Nassib had a streak of 22 straight completions, (half vs. Rhode Island but half vs. USC). It was the best our offesne looked all year. I thought we were finally going to haqve a team that used the pass to set up the run and used the Dome to it's full extent and make the other team play the whole field instead of drawing them to one spot so we would occasisonally burn them deep. Instead, we went back to trying to establish the run first.

 

[JeremyCuse]

people need to really watch the games and not just the results. teams need to complete passes when they call them. teams need to be able to run on 3rd and short because passes only work 50-60% of the time, 3rd and 1 should be more like 75-80% of the time or better outside the red zone.

nothing has killed this team more the last few years than calling a perfect set of plays to set up the big play and then having it fail for lack of execution. teams with play makers are the other extreme. they can call plays that are total failures yet someone turns it into first downs or td's. McNabb did that so many times to save SU. how many plays do you remember in the DM era where a player made someone miss and turned it into a big play. PTG looked like someone who could do that and then he got hurt. you have to go back a ways to find guys at SU that made people miss. Carter did a bit, Mungro did a lot. Who was the last rcvr that turned simple plays into big ones? KJ/harrison?

Lack of execution has hurt the Offense under Marrone, i can remember several times last year SU getting 7-9 yards on first down and then getting stuffed two running plays in a row on second and third down with only short distances to go. Your also right about having a player who can turn a handoff or 8 yard catch into a big play or a touchdown. The fact that Syracuse has to make every offensive TD a 17 play 80 yard marathon is killing this teams ability to score a lot of points.

 

[NineOneSeven]

There were times last year when I said, "Just keep throwing it to Lemon. Why stop?"

LEMON PARTY.

Again, to those in the chat room during the Uconn game last year, I apologize for subjecting you to the actual "Lemon Party".

Note to self-- Links actually work in chat.

 

[Aweart23]

Good point about at least trying some deep passes two years ago versus last year, I was also surprised we didnt try at least a few more deep plays if nothing more then to keep the defense honest. We also seemed to get away from the screen play last year after running a bunch of them two years ago. Teams continued to kill us with that bubble and junk screen but we only ran it a few times last year and I can't remember a rb screen or WR screen during the 5 game losing streak.

We threw one to Bailey at Pitt that he scored on ...wait for it...with Macky leading the way into the end zone

 

[Millhouse]

Instead, we went back to trying to establish the run first.

myth

 

[JeremyCuse]

We threw one to Bailey at Pitt that he scored on ...wait for it...with Macky leading the way into the end zone

Dame I must be getting old I forgot that allready. Would like to see some more screens this year especially with Brolyld, I just hope we disguise the play and dont make it obvious.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

myth

There were three games after WFVU last season where our first drive had three straight running plays and three straight three and outs. A mentality to establish the run with a production result of throwing a lot aren't necessarily irreconcilable.