Orange Fizz on Brissett, Guerrier and Battle

reedny

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This is what I expect it to be, although QG for Marek [who still plays 30].
Agree, although a close contender might be Hughes at the 2 (Buddy) and Guerrier at the 3, adding even more firepower (if Guerrier is as potent a scorer as he's touted to be).

This whole season - not just the roster - turns on whether Sid is healthy, allowing MD to play his natural position.
 

SU Dreaming

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3 things will be proven true:

Buddy starts at the 2
Hughes starts at one forward spot
Marek starts at the 5

100 pct correct re Buddy and Hughes
This is non negotiable / not open 4 debate with JB , Buddy and Hughes will be starting
TBD 5 spot - just too many unanswered questions and unknowns with Sid and the 2 fresh, won’t know anything until they start playing in Aug, then could change in Oct, if Sid is healthy which is a big if and stops with poor fouls he starts ,
JB likes Marek 1st off bench, quick pull for the starter just like with Robey and Coleman, in my mind more important who is playing the Late minutes of game

Also correct problem starting QG and EH , no height for zone

For the 1st time longtime I would not be surprised if he plays some man this year, we do not have the height back of zone nor anyone who defends the rim , we need to run and gun , outshooting the other team , this squad is not winning games playing defense and walking it up the floor , and we have plenty of bodies to press more than a few minutes in 2nd half
 

OttoinGrotto

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100 pct correct re Buddy and Hughes
This is non negotiable / not open 4 debate with JB , Buddy and Hughes will be starting
TBD 5 spot - just too many unanswered questions and unknowns with Sid and the 2 fresh, won’t know anything until they start playing in Aug, then could change in Oct, if Sid is healthy which is a big if and stops with poor fouls he starts ,
JB likes Marek 1st off bench, quick pull for the starter just like with Robey and Coleman, in my mind more important who is playing the Late minutes of game

Also correct problem starting QG and EH , no height for zone

For the 1st time longtime I would not be surprised if he plays some man this year, we do not have the height back of zone nor anyone who defends the rim , we need to run and gun , outshooting the other team , this squad is not winning games playing defense and walking it up the floor , and we have plenty of bodies to press more than a few minutes in 2nd half
The thing that sucks about that is I think Marek plays better when he starts and can get a feel for the game right away.
 

Townie72

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There is no reason for Marek to come in this fall looking physically like he did this past season. He will be a better player for us if the boys at S&C put 20 + pounds of muscle weight on him. He's never been afraid of contact, (remember the charge he took from ZW), with the added weight he's got more going for him than without it IMO.

He lost a pound between his freshman and sophomore years. But you think he'll gain 20 this off season?

Based on what?
 

IthacaMatt

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I really don’t understand why people don’t want Buddy to start considering how he played pretty much the entire ACC season and we played just as well with him in place of Battle in the ACC tournament.

Well, as he played big minutes, we lost 6 of our last 8 games, and he had a few really sub-par games, including an 0-6 (0-4 from 3) in the NCAA loss. He did have 2 or 3 good games, but he had a few pretty bad ones down the stretch when we asked him to maybe do a bit too much. Plus, he had that terrible shooting stretch at the start of the season. I'm just saying, let's not make the kid bear too much of the burden next year. He's only a soph and he bears enough of a burden already as the coach's son.
 

Cusefan0307

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Well, as he played big minutes, we lost 6 of our last 8 games, and he had a few really sub-par games, including an 0-6 (0-4 from 3) in the NCAA loss. He did have 2 or 3 good games, but he had a few pretty bad ones down the stretch when we asked him to maybe do a bit too much. Plus, he had that terrible shooting stretch at the start of the season. I'm just saying, let's not make the kid bear too much of the burden next year. He's only a soph and he bears enough of a burden already as the coach's son.
You’re wrong here and you know they keep stats Matt that I can reference and google like anyone else. We need him next year to score and I expect him to be one of our best scorers next year.

Unfortunately for him his worst game in 2019 was in the tournament and that’s all silly fans remember and keep referencing. So no it wasn’t a few subpar games. It was exactly 1.

He was in double figures 9 of the previous 16 games prior to the tournament.

In the 8 games prior to the tournament he shot 18-45 from 3.

We literally haven’t had good three point shooting in 3 years and you guys want to put our best shooter in the bench to watch more bricking? That’s just not a smart basketball move. The only three guys we have that we know can produce against good teams are Buddy, Hughes and Dolezaj.

Also I guarantee if his last name was Johnson or Smith or whatever nobody would even bring up this stupid opinion.
 

DoctorBombay

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I don’t see how we progress w/ Marek as a starter at the 5. Doley’s best role is a John Havlicek, RIP (Hondo-like) spot off the bench. Sidibe or one of the frosh HAS to step up and play the 5, in order for us to go far.
Let QG fight for a spot at the 3 or 4, but my biggest prediction for next season is Girard starting at the 1.
JB likes fighters. The kid is a fighter w/ swag. I see JG at the 1, Buddy at the 2, Elijah at the 3, QC or Braswell at the 4, and Sidibe or one the frosh at the 5.
That’s a more realistic scenario, IMO.
 

SU Dreaming

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You’re wrong here and you know they keep stats Matt that I can reference and google like anyone else. We need him next year to score and I expect him to be one of our best scorers next year.

Unfortunately for him his worst game in 2019 was in the tournament and that’s all silly fans remember and keep referencing. So no it wasn’t a few subpar games. It was exactly 1.

He was in double figures 9 of the previous 16 games prior to the tournament.

In the 8 games prior to the tournament he shot 18-45 from 3.

We literally haven’t had good three point shooting in 3 years and you guys want to put our best shooter in the bench to watch more bricking? That’s just not a smart basketball move. The only three guys we have that we know can produce against good teams are Buddy, Hughes and Dolezaj.

Also I guarantee if his last name was Johnson or Smith or whatever nobody would even bring up this stupid opinion.

Buddy can shoot lights out...the balance of his game needs work, hopefully he continues to improve, there’s not another school in the acc where he is a starting guard let alone playing 30 minutes, he is an liability on defense or at least he was last season.
 

kcsu

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If not for Buddy would Hughes be the starting 2?
 

AZOrange

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Buddy can shoot lights out...the balance of his game needs work, hopefully he continues to improve, there’s not another school in the acc where he is a starting guard let alone playing 30 minutes, he is an liability on defense or at least he was last season.
This is just laughable. If he starts here he’d start elsewhere.
 

sutomcat

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Buddy can shoot lights out...the balance of his game needs work, hopefully he continues to improve, there’s not another school in the acc where he is a starting guard let alone playing 30 minutes, he is an liability on defense or at least he was last season.
Seems like whenever we have a local player on the team who does well, some people on the board do back flips to try and bring them down.

Just to add a few facts to this discussion about Buddy, here is how the team did last season in key measurables, based on production over 40 minutes:

PlayerMinutesRPGSPGPFPGTOPGBPGPPGAPG
Battle, Tyus1162
3.614458​
1.273666​
2.340792​
1.962134​
0.275387​
18.93287​
2.753873​
Hughes, Elijah1108
5.306859​
1.516245​
2.599278​
2.274368​
0.974729​
16.8231​
1.805054​
Brissett, Oshae1121
9.063336​
1.17752​
2.533452​
2.462087​
0.963426​
15.09367​
2.176628​
Howard, Frank779
2.926829​
2.207959​
3.286264​
3.029525​
0.205392​
13.24775​
4.313222​
Boeheim, Buddy546
3.809524​
1.318681​
2.783883​
1.831502​
0.21978​
15.89744​
2.417582​
Chukwu, Paschal663
10.67873​
1.447964​
5.972851​
1.870287​
3.438914​
8.687783​
0.482655​
Dolezaj, Marek737
6.51289​
2.333786​
5.101764​
2.062415​
0.868385​
7.652646​
2.930801​
Carey, Jalen305
5.114754​
2.098361​
1.57377​
5.377049​
0.52459​
11.40984​
3.278689​
Braswell, Robert55
7.272727​
4.363636​
1.454545​
5.090909​
0.727273​
18.90909​
3.636364​
Sidibe, Bourama293
10.51195​
2.047782​
9.283276​
1.228669​
1.911263​
7.508532​
0.682594​

Analysis:

The criticism about Buddy getting in foul trouble too much is completely unfounded. That is a good criticism for Sidibe, Chukwu and Dolezaj. Maybe Frank. But not Buddy.

Buddy was the best rebounding guard on the team. As he gets stronger and more experienced, he will just get better here. Which is good because we are going to need rebounding next year. The rebounding numbers for Elijah and Marek are really bad.

Buddy was better at getting steals than Tyus. Not that blocks mean a lot for guards, but he was better at getting them than Frank Howard.

In terms of turnovers, Buddy was excellent...under 2 per 40 minutes is really good.

In terms of points per 40 minutes, he was third behind Battle and Hughes.

In terms of assists per 40 minutes, he was just behind Tyus. But Tyus played a lot of PG, which gave him a big advantage here. Given how little Buddy had the ball in his hands, he did well in this area.

Buddy didn't play well before conference ball began. I suspect a lot of that had to do with Frank being hurt, and our in ability to run a coherent half court offense without him. That certainly contributed to the bad game Buddy had in the NCAA tournament. Buddy, like all shooting guards, needs a good point guard to get him the ball in places where he can make shots.

Once conference ball started, and Frank took over the point guard role, even against a higher level of competition, he did really well. I have already posted some stats showing him to be one of the top shooters in the ACC as a freshman.

Any program in the ACC, or the country for that matter, would love to have Buddy on their team.
 

IthacaMatt

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We literally haven’t had good three point shooting in 3 years and you guys want to put our best shooter in the bench to watch more bricking? That’s just not a smart basketball move. The only three guys we have that we know can produce against good teams are Buddy, Hughes and Dolezaj.
I just want Buddy and the Orange to be successful.
I think if Buddy plays big minutes, he's not quite ready for it.

I think with Buddy, if he starts a game poorly, sometimes that's it for the game. He gets down on himself and can't make another shot, and commits a bunch of silly fouls trying to compensate.

We also are prone to really slow starts. I would hate to see Buddy, a real clutch guy, or Marek, get into foul trouble early in a bunch of games. We saw some of that last year.

I want to protect the players who we need at the end of games.
It's not who starts, it's who finishes, right?

I understand why you'd disagree. It's just my opinion of how I would handle next season's rotation. Reasonable people can differ. But I was one of Buddy's earliest backers, so please don't suggest that I don't want to play the kid. I just want to get the best out of him with the least amount of pressure.
 

Cusefan0307

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I just want Buddy and the Orange to be successful.
I think if Buddy plays big minutes, he's not quite ready for it.

I think with Buddy, if he starts a game poorly, sometimes that's it for the game. He gets down on himself and can't make another shot, and commits a bunch of silly fouls trying to compensate.

We also are prone to really slow starts. I would hate to see Buddy, a real clutch guy, or Marek, get into foul trouble early in a bunch of games. We saw some of that last year.

I want to protect the players who we need at the end of games.
It's not who starts, it's who finishes, right?

I understand why you'd disagree. It's just my opinion of how I would handle next season's rotation. Reasonable people can differ. But I was one of Buddy's earliest backers, so please don't suggest that I don't want to play the kid. I just want to get the best out of him with the least amount of pressure.
That wasn't my point. You referenced the non conference and said he struggled at a bunch of games at the end of the season when it was exactly 1 in the NCAA tournament. You also mentioned foul trouble. He had one game with 4 fouls all year and against that was the tournament. In the 5 games prior to that he had either 1 or 2 fouls.

I didn't say you were picking on him specifically, but other fans are. This one bad game is starting to take on a narrative of its own with certain fans that can be proven Factually incorrect by simply looking at stats from last year.
 

OttoinGrotto

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Seems like whenever we have a local player on the team who does well, some people on the board do back flips to try and bring them down.

Just to add a few facts to this discussion about Buddy, here is how the team did last season in key measurables, based on production over 40 minutes:

PlayerMinutesRPGSPGPFPGTOPGBPGPPGAPG
Battle, Tyus1162
3.614458​
1.273666​
2.340792​
1.962134​
0.275387​
18.93287​
2.753873​
Hughes, Elijah1108
5.306859​
1.516245​
2.599278​
2.274368​
0.974729​
16.8231​
1.805054​
Brissett, Oshae1121
9.063336​
1.17752​
2.533452​
2.462087​
0.963426​
15.09367​
2.176628​
Howard, Frank779
2.926829​
2.207959​
3.286264​
3.029525​
0.205392​
13.24775​
4.313222​
Boeheim, Buddy546
3.809524​
1.318681​
2.783883​
1.831502​
0.21978​
15.89744​
2.417582​
Chukwu, Paschal663
10.67873​
1.447964​
5.972851​
1.870287​
3.438914​
8.687783​
0.482655​
Dolezaj, Marek737
6.51289​
2.333786​
5.101764​
2.062415​
0.868385​
7.652646​
2.930801​
Carey, Jalen305
5.114754​
2.098361​
1.57377​
5.377049​
0.52459​
11.40984​
3.278689​
Braswell, Robert55
7.272727​
4.363636​
1.454545​
5.090909​
0.727273​
18.90909​
3.636364​
Sidibe, Bourama293
10.51195​
2.047782​
9.283276​
1.228669​
1.911263​
7.508532​
0.682594​

Analysis:

The criticism about Buddy getting in foul trouble too much is completely unfounded. That is a good criticism for Sidibe, Chukwu and Dolezaj. Maybe Frank. But not Buddy.

Buddy was the best rebounding guard on the team. As he gets stronger and more experienced, he will just get better here. Which is good because we are going to need rebounding next year. The rebounding numbers for Elijah and Marek are really bad.

Buddy was better at getting steals than Tyus. Not that blocks mean a lot for guards, but he was better at getting them than Frank Howard.

In terms of turnovers, Buddy was excellent...under 2 per 40 minutes is really good.

In terms of points per 40 minutes, he was third behind Battle and Hughes.

In terms of assists per 40 minutes, he was just behind Tyus. But Tyus played a lot of PG, which gave him a big advantage here. Given how little Buddy had the ball in his hands, he did well in this area.

Buddy didn't play well before conference ball began. I suspect a lot of that had to do with Frank being hurt, and our in ability to run a coherent half court offense without him. That certainly contributed to the bad game Buddy had in the NCAA tournament. Buddy, like all shooting guards, needs a good point guard to get him the ball in places where he can make shots.

Once conference ball started, and Frank took over the point guard role, even against a higher level of competition, he did really well. I have already posted some stats showing him to be one of the top shooters in the ACC as a freshman.

Any program in the ACC, or the country for that matter, would love to have Buddy on their team.
Great post. I was a Buddy skeptic when he had terrible shooting percentages, but was won over when he worked through that and became a more consistent contributor.

The tough thing is, a lot of fans have believed that we've had guys on our bench that could improve with PT, but JB rarely seems comfortable letting a player figure it out on the court. Buddy seemed to have a longer leash, and you couldn't help but wonder if the last name had something to do with it.

I think Buddy's development arc over the season is something a lot of fans would like to see other players have the chance to experience.
 

721Comstock

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Great post. I was a Buddy skeptic when he had terrible shooting percentages, but was won over when he worked through that and became a more consistent contributor.

The tough thing is, a lot of fans have believed that we've had guys on our bench that could improve with PT, but JB rarely seems comfortable letting a player figure it out on the court. Buddy seemed to have a longer leash, and you couldn't help but wonder if the last name had something to do with it.

I think Buddy's development arc over the season is something a lot of fans would like to see other players have the chance to experience.
A lot of fans are dumb. ;)

JB sees who can play in PRACTICE (yes, we talkin' 'bout practice! :p) and then plays them accordingly.
They practice a helluva lot more minutes than they'd ever play every week.
We fans only get to see players for 40 minutes, 1-2x a week.

Buddy got a long leash out of necessity:
Frank was hurt, so we needed another guard - Hi Buddy!
Then Jalen struggled, so we needed another guard - Hi Buddy!
Then Frank came back, but he kinda sucked, so Tyus played PG a lot, and we needed another guard -
Hi Buddy!

Then during the ACC season, Buddy came into his own a great deal, and was clearly our best shooter.
His D improved enough so that he wasn't a liability - at least when compared to what remained of Frank - so then there was really no reason not to play him.
 

IthacaMatt

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That wasn't my point. You referenced the non conference and said he struggled at a bunch of games at the end of the season when it was exactly 1 in the NCAA tournament. You also mentioned foul trouble. He had one game with 4 fouls all year and against that was the tournament. In the 5 games prior to that he had either 1 or 2 fouls.

In those last 8 games, he had an 0-4, 0-1, 1-4, and a 2-7 from three. He had a couple decent games (3-7, 3-8) and one really good one - 3-5 vs. Duke at the ACC tournament. He had 3 fouls that limited him to only 16 minutes against Carolina (although he shot pretty well when he was out there), and had 3 fouls in a couple other games toward the end of the season.

If you go back through the game log, his last "big minutes" games before the ACC schedule were the two home games that were part of the NYC tournament. He played 25 and 27 minutes and went 1-11 and 1-7 (combined 1-10 from three). Those were his last "big minute" games until January, when he really started lighting it up from three, starting with the Georgia Tech game.

I'm sorry that you feel I am cherry picking the data. That's what fans do, though. They form an opinion, and then the look at the data to see if they match up.

Buddy may start next year. If you look at it from the perspective of who has the experience, then of course you start him over Goodine. But if you give the young freshman the "courtesy start", as we have done so often in the past, and let Buddy watch the first 4 minutes and feel the flow of the game before he comes in, I just think it makes him more dangerous, and less likely to feel pressure.

Like I said before, I don't think there's a right or wrong answer here; it's just what I personally think would work best.
 

IthacaMatt

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Then during the ACC season, Buddy came into his own a great deal, and was clearly our best shooter.
His D improved enough so that he wasn't a liability - at least when compared to what remained of Frank - so then there was really no reason not to play him.

I still think Hughes is our best shooter, but Buddy is right there with him. Hughes, to this point, has been more consistent than Buddy. But Buddy is a clutch shooter and can change a game, no question.
 

Cusefan0307

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In those last 8 games, he had an 0-4, 0-1, 1-4, and a 2-7 from three. He had a couple decent games (3-7, 3-8) and one really good one - 3-5 vs. Duke at the ACC tournament. He had 3 fouls that limited him to only 16 minutes against Carolina (although he shot pretty well when he was out there), and had 3 fouls in a couple other games toward the end of the season.

If you go back through the game log, his last "big minutes" games before the ACC schedule were the two home games that were part of the NYC tournament. He played 25 and 27 minutes and went 1-11 and 1-7 (combined 1-10 from three). Those were his last "big minute" games until January, when he really started lighting it up from three, starting with the Georgia Tech game.

I'm sorry that you feel I am cherry picking the data. That's what fans do, though. They form an opinion, and then the look at the data to see if they match up.

Buddy may start next year. If you look at it from the perspective of who has the experience, then of course you start him over Goodine. But if you give the young freshman the "courtesy start", as we have done so often in the past, and let Buddy watch the first 4 minutes and feel the flow of the game before he comes in, I just think it makes him more dangerous, and less likely to feel pressure.

Like I said before, I don't think there's a right or wrong answer here; it's just what I personally think would work best.
Bottom line is he shot 41% from 3 in ACC play. If you're going to use that logic wouldn't it make sense that Carey doesn't start either as he will probably face the most pressure of anyone next year?
 

SUskibum

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Bottom line is he shot 41% from 3 in ACC play. If you're going to use that logic wouldn't it make sense that Carey doesn't start either as he will probably face the most pressure of anyone next year?
Not to mention he lead the team in scoring per 40 minutes, while having the least turnovers per 40

He also lead all guards/wings in 2pt % AND 3pt %, with the second highest steal rate.

He out rebounded both Battle and Howard

Almost looks like an argument could be made that he was our best/most efficient player in conference play.
 

IthacaMatt

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Not to mention he lead the team in scoring per 40 minutes, while having the least turnovers per 40

He also lead all guards/wings in 2pt % AND 3pt %, with the second highest steal rate.

He out rebounded both Battle and Howard

Almost looks like an argument could be made that he was our best/most efficient player in conference play.

I don't disagree. But if it was OK for Dion to come off the bench and still be the number 6 player in the draft, it wouldn't kill Buddy. His "per 40" averages above are based on playing less than half the game. With increased usage, and being more tired, he might not match the numbers he put up as a part-time player.
 

IthacaMatt

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Bottom line is he shot 41% from 3 in ACC play. If you're going to use that logic wouldn't it make sense that Carey doesn't start either as he will probably face the most pressure of anyone next year?

Jalen Carey is not the coach's son, and not the first person the announcers are going to discuss in every game next year. That's the logic.
 

DoctorBombay

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Jalen Carey is not the coach's son, and not the first person the announcers are going to discuss in every game next year. That's the logic.
JC will be a huge key for us next season. Ideally you want him to play a ton of minutes and mix in Goodine & or Girard, my sleeper pick, as they develop. I realize in my earlier post I’d totally FORGOTTEN about Carey. :confused: A clear illustration of his being such a non-factor last year. He better be prepped and ready come October, or we’re struggling mightily.
In any scenario however, Buddy is the likely starter at the 2. He had a pretty good freshman year and proved that he belongs. Others can debate why/how he was given a supposedly long leash, but he’s a vet now.
Again, short of any of the frosh being Melo 2.0, we’re gonna see experience in the starting lineup. Lots of moving parts next year- we’ll see what happens!
 

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