Orangemen and the NBA...

[OrangeDW]

Minnesota fan here. Coming over here mainly because of the Gophs playing the Orange in football. However, we Minnesota fans have a bit of a bad taste for orange as our Twolves have picked a few Orangemen in the first round of the draft and they have flopped royally. Does anyone here have a good explanation for why Carmelo Anthony is basically the only Orangeman worth talking about in the NBA?

Is it that players can't figure out how to play man-to-man and make the rotations in the NBA? Is it that as individual players they have some major flaws that get exposed in the NBA, but the team play of Coach Boeheim covers up the individual flaws? Or is it...(add your own thoughts).

Finally, perhaps I'm missing a whole bunch of players that have had good to great NBA careers and I'm just biased by the complete flops that have been picked by the Twolves. When the Twolves picked Flynn and Johnson I had high hopes. What gives with the Orangemen when they move on to the NBA?

Wesley Johnson is contributing nicely now that he's employed by a competent organization. He's always had it in him to be a very solid supporting role guy. He's a "D and 3" guy, and that's exactly what he's giving LA. He can't dribble. He never could. He shouldn't have been picked so high where he was expected to be a star. Blame your scouts, not Wes or Cuse.

Likewise, why the hell did you take Jonny Flynn after Ricky Rubio? And you played the triangle? Can't think of a worst fit for Flynn. If it wasn't for that garbage, he'd still be in the league and would be a perfectly decent PG. Again, blame you scouts for making a dumb pick, not Cuse.

Personally, I have a problem with the Minnesota Timberwolves for making crappy picks and then jamming square pegs into round holes and ruining our guys. Theyt both would've been much better off being drafted somewhere else.

Also, MCW is already better than Rubio.

 

[44cuse]

Wesley Johnson is contributing nicely now that he's employed by a competent organization. He's always had it in him to be a very solid supporting role guy. He's a "D and 3" guy, and that's exactly what he's giving LA. He can't dribble. He never could. He shouldn't have been picked so high where he was expected to be a star. Blame your scouts, not Wes or Cuse. Likewise, why the hell did you take Jonny Flynn after Ricky Rubio? And you played the triangle? Can't think of a worst fit for Flynn. If it wasn't for that garbage, he'd still be in the league and would be a perfectly decent PG. Again, blame you scouts for making a dumb pick, not Cuse. Personally, I have a problem with the Minnesota Timberwolves for making crappy picks and then jamming square pegs into round holes and ruining our guys. Theyt both would've been much better off being drafted somewhere else. Also, MCW is already better than Rubio.

If it wasn't for the triangle, JF would still be in the league? Huh?

44cuse

 

[AZOrange]

Wesley Johnson is contributing nicely now that he's employed by a competent organization. He's always had it in him to be a very solid supporting role guy. He's a "D and 3" guy, and that's exactly what he's giving LA. He can't dribble. He never could. He shouldn't have been picked so high where he was expected to be a star. Blame your scouts, not Wes or Cuse. Likewise, why the hell did you take Jonny Flynn after Ricky Rubio? And you played the triangle? Can't think of a worst fit for Flynn. If it wasn't for that garbage, he'd still be in the league and would be a perfectly decent PG. Again, blame you scouts for making a dumb pick, not Cuse. Personally, I have a problem with the Minnesota Timberwolves for making crappy picks and then jamming square pegs into round holes and ruining our guys. Theyt both would've been much better off being drafted somewhere else. Also, MCW is already better than Rubio.

Phx is plenty competent.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Wasn't Flynn's ability (or lack thereof) to play defense was seriously exposed in the NBA?

Yes and he clearly said he was a great man-to-man player and played better in that defense - shows what players know in evaluating their own skills. I would think Minnesota had footage and workouts to determine the players strengths and weaknesses for their top draft picks - so shows what they know too.

 

[OrangeDW]

If it wasn't for the triangle, JF would still be in the league? Huh?

44cuse

Well, the injury hurt him too obviously.

But playing in that offense on that team for that coach hurt his stock big-time.

If he had went somewhere else and had a better start to his career, he would've gotten a second contract regardless of injury.

 

[Ghost]

Wesley Johnson is contributing nicely now that he's employed by a competent organization. He's always had it in him to be a very solid supporting role guy. He's a "D and 3" guy, and that's exactly what he's giving LA. He can't dribble. He never could. He shouldn't have been picked so high where he was expected to be a star. Blame your scouts, not Wes or Cuse.

Likewise, why the hell did you take Jonny Flynn after Ricky Rubio? And you played the triangle? Can't think of a worst fit for Flynn. If it wasn't for that garbage, he'd still be in the league and would be a perfectly decent PG. Again, blame you scouts for making a dumb pick, not Cuse.

Personally, I have a problem with the Minnesota Timberwolves for making crappy picks and then jamming square pegs into round holes and ruining our guys. They both would've been much better off being drafted somewhere else.

The first paragraph is spot on. Most Lakers fans are very happy with Wes' defense - so the OP pointing out the 2/3 zone as being a problem doesn't make much sense in this case.

The second paragraph is spot on too.

Third too!

The trifecta - well done, DW.

 

[OrangeDW]

The first paragraph is spot on. Most Lakers fans are very happy with Wes' defense - so the OP pointing out the 2/3 zone as being a problem doesn't make much sense in this case.

The second paragraph is spot on too.

Third too!

The trifecta - well done, DW.

In addition to Wes, MCW is already a good defender. Philly's defense completely fell apart when he was out.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Flynn had changed after minny so I don't buy the idea that the triangle ruined his career.


Sometimes we just like making excuses.

 

[RF2044]

Flynn had changed after minny so I don't buy the idea that the triangle ruined his career.

Sometimes we just like making excuses.

If by "changed" you mean that his physical abilities were diminished after injuries, then you would be correct.

 

[jgeorge322]

Flynn had a hip injury. Not a knee. It's well documented.

Johnson is not a bust.

Go ask Kahn why his team sucked for so long.

 

[jgeorge322]

If dIon wasn't stuck in Kyries shi- hole he'd be doing alright.

Dion is a hot head who needs to grow up. Other than that, he can be a good talent.

 

[OrangeDW]

Flynn had changed after minny so I don't buy the idea that the triangle ruined his career.


Sometimes we just like making excuses.

It's not an excuse that his stock was hurt by being a fish out of water in Minnesota.

If he had been drafted somewhere else, he would've been more effective. Sometimes there's a thin line between making it and not making it. It wasn't the only reason he didn't make it, but it was one of them.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Minnesota fan here. Coming over here mainly because of the Gophs playing the Orange in football. However, we Minnesota fans have a bit of a bad taste for orange as our Twolves have picked a few Orangemen in the first round of the draft and they have flopped royally. Does anyone here have a good explanation for why Carmelo Anthony is basically the only Orangeman worth talking about in the NBA?

Is it that players can't figure out how to play man-to-man and make the rotations in the NBA? Is it that as individual players they have some major flaws that get exposed in the NBA, but the team play of Coach Boeheim covers up the individual flaws? Or is it...(add your own thoughts).

Finally, perhaps I'm missing a whole bunch of players that have had good to great NBA careers and I'm just biased by the complete flops that have been picked by the Twolves. When the Twolves picked Flynn and Johnson I had high hopes. What gives with the Orangemen when they move on to the NBA?

Well, Flynn got hurt and was playing as a rookie under a crap coach, in the wrong system. Johnson is acquitting himself fairly well with the Lakers this year. The NBA is so much about system, organization and who is running with you.
To go more to your point with regard to SU and the T'wolves, its all about the T'wolves. You guys had Brandon Roy and traded him. Really, who does that? I saw the kid once in college and thought he was the best player that year, hands down.

Also, what about the Dukies, Laettner and Avery, that you drafted in the 1st round. How did those guys do? Again, its about the T'wolves.

IMO - Jim Boeheim is a master at getting the best out of his players and putting them in the best position to do well. I always point out that he made Lawrence Moten the leading scorer in Big East history. The same Lawrence Moten who barely played in the NBA and was non-descript overseas. This year, he gets CJ Fair mid-range baseline jump shots when the game is close. What other coach does that? He tweaks his offense every year to take advantage of his best players' best assets.

 

[DoctorBombay]

Minnesota fan here. Coming over here mainly because of the Gophs playing the Orange in football. However, we Minnesota fans have a bit of a bad taste for orange as our Twolves have picked a few Orangemen in the first round of the draft and they have flopped royally. Does anyone here have a good explanation for why Carmelo Anthony is basically the only Orangeman worth talking about in the NBA?

Is it that players can't figure out how to play man-to-man and make the rotations in the NBA? Is it that as individual players they have some major flaws that get exposed in the NBA, but the team play of Coach Boeheim covers up the individual flaws? Or is it...(add your own thoughts).

Finally, perhaps I'm missing a whole bunch of players that have had good to great NBA careers and I'm just biased by the complete flops that have been picked by the Twolves. When the Twolves picked Flynn and Johnson I had high hopes. What gives with the Orangemen when they move on to the NBA?

One word, Troll...

 

[OrangeDW]

Minnesota Timberwolves all time record: 667-922. That's a .420 winning percentage.

You're basically the Rutgers of the NBA. Retitle this post, The Timberwolves and the NBA Draft. And rather than focusing on Flynn and Wes, list all of the bad Timberwolves draft picks:
1990 -Felton Spencer #6
1991-Luc Longley #7
1992-Christian Laettner #3
1993- JR Rider at #5 (Allen Houston was available, better, and not completely insane)
1994- Donyell Marshall #4 (not terrible but Eddie Jones, Jalen Rose, and Juwon Howard were better pros and were available)
1999 -Will Avery #14
I'll throw in the Joe Smith debacle that basically cost them the chance to blow their first round picks for like the next 5 years.
2005 - Rashad McCants at #14
2006 - Brandon Roy for Randy Foye. Ouch.
2007 - Corey Brewer. At #7? Noah was available.
2011 - Derrick Williams at #2

I didn't even mention trading Ray Allen for Marbury(who was good). Obviously we know Marbury got out of Minn. as soon as possible.

Kevin Garnett and Kevin Love are the only high picks Minnesota has gotten right. Don't pin your failures on us.

 

[tbonezone]

i imagine people here wouldn't be bristling so much at the allegation (SU players don't fare well in the NBA)
if in fact they didn't indeed sense the same notion . is it a zone thing? can't say. but it's definitely out there.

 

[OrangeDW]

i imagine people here wouldn't be bristling so much at the allegation (SU players don't fare well in the NBA)
if in fact they didn't indeed sense the same notion . is it a zone thing? can't say. but it's definitely out there.

Nope. We have a top 10 player and one of the most visible and consistent stars in the league, and the best rookie in the league right now. It's just kind of bad timing on his part. If MCW was busting or something, it might make sense. And that it's coming from a T'Wolves fan when they ALWAYS blow their picks, makes it worse.

 

[Trueblue25]

sorry sorry

Knee, hip

Same thing.

 

[Ghost]

It's not an excuse that his stock was hurt by being a fish out of water in Minnesota.

If he had been drafted somewhere else, he would've been more effective. Sometimes there's a thin line between making it and not making it. It wasn't the only reason he didn't make it, but it was one of them.

I watched him in Portland a couple times, I thought he looked okay and figured he would stick on a minimum deal. He didn't.

It is a thin line - Wes seemed pretty close to being out of the league, and now he's starting for the Lakers. Same with Donte - sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don't. He was slightly better (per 36 minutes) in 2011-2012 than his second year in the league (where he started 50+ games), other than shooting threes - where he did dip a lot, and he hasn't played a minute since.

 

[Ghost]

i imagine people here wouldn't be bristling so much at the allegation (SU players don't fare well in the NBA)
if in fact they didn't indeed sense the same notion . is it a zone thing? can't say. but it's definitely out there.

I think most of us would readily concede we have a spotty record. However, at the same time most people were well aware of the limitations of these guys going in, if anything, most have probably performed as expected, or better (it's not our fault Kahn doesn't read the forum).

I think the general criticism regarding most of these guys existed pre-draft:

Dion - Probably has exceeded board expectations at this point

Wes - I think everyone knew his handle was subpar, and he would struggle - could only thrive as a shooter

Flynn - Underperformed, but the injury didn't help. Also, I bet if we called up the thread from that draft you would see everyone bemoaning the fact that Minny picked him and put him in a bad situation off the bat. And, his first year, he did about as well as anyone here could have expected.

MCW - Like Waiters, probably exceeding expectations

Hak - Probably about what was expected - if not more

Melo - About what was expected - superstar

 

[DoctorBombay]

i imagine people here wouldn't be bristling so much at the allegation (SU players don't fare well in the NBA)
if in fact they didn't indeed sense the same notion . is it a zone thing? can't say. but it's definitely out there.

Beside the point.
The OP is purely referencing SU players, when the franchise he cheers for has a proven track record of futility going back 22 years.
Minny is a shitty NBA franchise and the draft has simply reflected that.
Witness Wesley Johnson finally finding a groove in LA.
Jonny Flynn got hurt, plain and simple- and any criticism leveled at him refuses to put his bust status in proper context. JMHO
Some of it is timing, maturity, opportunity, and dumb luck...none of which are restricted to just SU players.
Realistically, SU "stars" have struggled as much as say Duke players in the NBA. That was a major criticism of Coach K's program for years, and last I checked...he doesn't play zone.
The bristling you detect is based more on the "troll-like" nature of the OP, which seems designed to elicit a reaction, rather than provide a fair medium for debate. To not even hint at the Minnesota franchises' incompetence, not just w/ SU players but overall, renders the post specious at best. IMHO.

 

[HOFCeluck]

If by "changed" you mean that his physical abilities were diminished after injuries, then you would be correct.

I meant "chances." Flynn played for Houston and Portland after Minny.

But I think the hip injury had a HUGE impact...especially on a guy like JF. Before that he was on the all rookie team I think,.

 

[Moontan]

They do a great job when they draft for other teams. Ray Allen, Brandon Roy, Mario Chalmers, Ty Lawson, OJ Mayo.

Didn't they almost draft Kobe?

 

[AlaskaSU]

Minnesota fan here. Coming over here mainly because of the Gophs playing the Orange in football. However, we Minnesota fans have a bit of a bad taste for orange as our Twolves have picked a few Orangemen in the first round of the draft and they have flopped royally. Does anyone here have a good explanation for why Carmelo Anthony is basically the only Orangeman worth talking about in the NBA?

Is it that players can't figure out how to play man-to-man and make the rotations in the NBA? Is it that as individual players they have some major flaws that get exposed in the NBA, but the team play of Coach Boeheim covers up the individual flaws? Or is it...(add your own thoughts).

Finally, perhaps I'm missing a whole bunch of players that have had good to great NBA careers and I'm just biased by the complete flops that have been picked by the Twolves. When the Twolves picked Flynn and Johnson I had high hopes. What gives with the Orangemen when they move on to the NBA?

How many Gopher players are fairing well in the NBA?

 

[tinyarch]

One word, Troll...

I'm no math major...but it seems like three words...


Some fair points.

First, no doubt that the Twolves front office has been pathetic from nearly day one. The Twolves passed on Seth Curry, after picking Rubio, and went for Flynn. The "Kahn" man was a horrible GM.

Second, yes...Duke has been equally poor at producing NBA talent even though they win NCAA championships. Certainly both HOF coaches do a fantastic job in getting the most out of players within their systems.

Third, The Gophers have a long history of shooting themselves in the foot with basketball sanctions that run all the way back to the early 70s. Our talent pool has been quite low and Tubby Smith didn't produce the talent we thought he would. At present the only kid out of MN is a one and done whose biggest fame is a failed marriage to Kim Kardashian (Kris Humphries). I can see Austin Hollins (son of Lionel Hollins) finding a niche' role in the NBA. He's a consumate pro with his work ethic, athleticism and solid fundamentals, but he won't be drafted or if he is it won't come til the 2nd round.