OT: 30 for 30

[dasher]

She was hit in the knee with a pipe. I didn't say anything was here fault just that she did alright end game. You can come crack me in the knee with a pipe right now for the amount of money she made off of it.

that would be your choice. She wasn't given that choice. Now, let's suppose you had a lifetime goal of being the national champion? And it was taken from you. JB thinks about losing the high school basketball regional everyday. He would take that game over the Indiana game if he had a do over. He has plenty of dough.

 

[Cheriehoop]

One of the biggest fairy tales is the "princess" tag for Kerrigan. Her dad was a welder, worked as many as 3 jobs to finance her skating career and drove the local rink's ice resurfacer in exchange for Kerrigan's early skating lessons. Her family was middle class, many saying lower middle class despite the characterizations that she was a haughty,privileged, silver spoon royal type. In 2010, her 70 year old father died of a heart attack while in a heated violent confrontation with her drunken brother who had alcohol and mental issues. He was tried and acquitted of involuntary manslaughter in their fathers' death but convicted and imprisoned for assault and battery. Her family had issues too but I haven't seen nor heard her try to capitalize on it, use it for an excuse for her own bad behavior or to hurt others.

 

[Alsacs]

I will say Kerrigan's attitude after she lost the Gold in 1994 was complete classless.Kerrigan didn't participate in this documentary because she was bought off by NBC to take part in their documentary. In return NBC hired her to be a commentator for their Olympic figure skating coverage. Tonya Harding committed the crime that Richard Nixon himself committed. She didn't order the hit on Kerrigan, but keeping quiet and not having faith in the police to protect if she feared for life makes guilty of hindering prosecution.

Kerrigan has the whiff of elitism all over her, but she was victimized by Gillolly and the body guard, hitman. I don't like Kerrigan because of her ice queen demeanor, but the fact she went thru therapy and training in 6 weeks after the attack and won the silver medal was impressive. With that said I think Kerrigan has profited off this crap way more than she should have, and Harding has really fallen off the map because of it.

 

[texascpa]

Just watching the 30 for 30 on DVR now on Tonya Harding. Anybody else see this? I can't believe this actually makes me feel REALLY bad for her. sheesh

The media always does a great job of making people feel bad for the villains. I think it's something in America's DNA.

 

[Delmar]

I remember a joke told around that time, I think by Leno, that if you translate Gilooly into Italian, it comes out Buttafuoco.

 

[ImperialOrange]

that would be your choice. She wasn't given that choice. Now, let's suppose you had a lifetime goal of being the national champion? And it was taken from you. JB thinks about losing the high school basketball regional everyday. He would take that game over the Indiana game if he had a do over. He has plenty of dough.

Sorry Mr Kerrigan, you're obviously much more invested in her life works than I am as witnessed by my passing comment. Most Olympians don't make a ton of money, apologies that she became financial well off which is the best outcome given the circumstance.

 

[itsbotime]

I will say Kerrigan's attitude after she lost the Gold in 1994 was complete classless.Kerrigan didn't participate in this documentary because she was bought off by NBC to take part in their documentary. In return NBC hired her to be a commentator for their Olympic figure skating coverage. Tonya Harding committed the crime that Richard Nixon himself committed. She didn't order the hit on Kerrigan, but keeping quiet and not having faith in the police to protect if she feared for life makes guilty of hindering prosecution.

Kerrigan has the whiff of elitism all over her, but she was victimized by Gillolly and the body guard, hitman. I don't like Kerrigan because of her ice queen demeanor, but the fact she went thru therapy and training in 6 weeks after the attack and won the silver medal was impressive. With that said I think Kerrigan has profited off this crap way more than she should have, and Harding has really fallen off the map because of it.

I'm curious as to how you know this, given that Harding has been shown to be a pathological liar and that everyone else involved in the plot has stated that Harding was in it from the beginning.

 

[Alsacs]

I'm curious as to how you know this, given that Harding has been shown to be a pathological liar and that everyone else involved in the plot has stated that Harding was in it from the beginning.

What I meant was BEST CASE SCENARIO for Tonya Harding was she didn't participate and all she did was hinder the prosecution by not talking when she her husband and associates were involved and claiming she wasn't involved. Instead, she kept quiet as long as she could. I agree she likely did have something to do with it, but their is no evidence to say otherwise unless Gillolly or the bodyguard said she was involved. Also, if those two said she was involved I wouldn't necessarily just take their word unless they had a little of evidence as they want to burn her down with them.

 

[dasher]

Sorry Mr Kerrigan, you're obviously much more invested in her life works than I am as witnessed by my passing comment. Most Olympians don't make a ton of money, apologies that she became financial well off which is the best outcome given the circumstance.

I didn't know disagreeing with you and knowing a bit more about it than you merited a Mr Kerrigan, who by the way is dead.

 

[mountaincuse]

Harding is a POS. Show made her look even worse.

I don't think the show itself did that, she did.

For the most part the show seemed to paint her as a victim of her upbringing, etc. but man did she bury herself in the interview portion.

Also, isn't the 30 in the title supposed to mean half an hour? I started watching thinking it was going to be over a lot sooner than it actually was!

 

[ImperialOrange]

I didn't know disagreeing with you and knowing a bit more about it than you merited a Mr Kerrigan, who by the way is dead.

It's more like saying lighten up francis. I don't have a dog in this fight and just made a passing comment based on the fact that she ended up quite well off financially vs a myriad of olympians that don't despite being successful. You seem to have a vested insterest in this, I have none. If she'd rather have a different shiny medal vs being financially well off then I feel bad for her. If she likes her financial security vs dwelling on potentially winning a gold medal then I don't. Sorry if any of this affects you on a personal level to me it doesn't and, as stated, she ended up doing alright given the circumstances imposed upon her.

 

[Alsacs]

I don't think the show itself did that, she did.

For the most part the show seemed to paint her as a victim of her upbringing, etc. but man did she bury herself in the interview portion.

Also, isn't the 30 in the title supposed to mean half an hour? I started watching thinking it was going to be over a lot sooner than it actually was!

30 for 30 means it was created by Bill Simmons celebrating ESPN's 30th anniversary with 30 films about interesting sports stories that were specific to the individual director. It has nothing to do with being 30 minutes long.

 

[dasher]

It's more like saying lighten up francis. I don't have a dog in this fight and just made a passing comment based on the fact that she ended up quite well off financially vs a myriad of olympians that don't despite being successful. You seem to have a vested insterest in this, I have none. If she'd rather have a different shiny medal vs being financially well off then I feel bad for her. If she likes her financial security vs dwelling on potentially winning a gold medal then I don't. Sorry if any of this affects you on a personal level to me it doesn't and, as stated, she ended up doing alright given the circumstances imposed upon her.

Injustice bothers me. Always has. To have someone's lifetime goal taken away from her like that, even with a short term money reward, is wrong. There is a saying, it's only money. There is a reason for that saying. I think you have a narrow view on this. Ask Gene Mills how much money would make up for his lost opportunity at the gold in '80.

 

[ImperialOrange]

Injustice bothers me. Always has. To have someone's lifetime goal taken away from her like that, even with a short term money reward, is wrong. There is a saying, it's only money. There is a reason for that saying. I think you have a narrow view on this. Ask Gene Mills how much money would make up for his lost opportunity at the gold in '80.

I get what you're saying I was just looking at the fact that she wasn't gaurenteed gold regardless and ended up better off financially then she would have otherwise. She still skated well and won a Silver at those Olympics, had she done the exact same and not had overcome the Harding incident, she wouldn't have acheived the same level of media darling status and reeped all the financial kick backs.

 

[dasher]

I get what you're saying I was just looking at the fact that she wasn't gaurenteed gold regardless and ended up better off financially then she would have otherwise. She still skated well and won a Silver at those Olympics, had she done the exact same and not had overcome the Harding incident, she wouldn't have acheived the same level of media darling status and reeped all the financial kick backs.

I have been in sales all my life. It is always about the money for me. I just think these kids that prepare for the pics are thinking about winning more than money. For me, when they give you the $$ it means you won. Not so sure it is true for others.

 

[ImperialOrange]

I have been in sales all my life. It is always about the money for me. I just think these kids that prepare for the pics are thinking about winning more than money. For me, when they give you the $$ it means you won. Not so sure it is true for others.

Been in sales the past 8 years of mine so perhaps I think a bit too much into the bottom line as well. Perhaps I've read about too many Olympians that have won Gold and never made the type of sponsership money as result that a lot of the glamour athletes will.

 

[Cheriehoop]

I will say Kerrigan's canude after she lost the Gold in 1994 was complete classless.Kerrigan didn't participate in this documentary because she was bought off by NBC to take part in their documentary. In return NBC hired her to be a commentator for their Olympic figure skating coverage. Tonya Harding committed the crime that Richard Nixon himself committed. She didn't order the hit on Kerrigan, but keeping quiet and not having faith in the police to protect if she feared for life makes guilty of hindering prosecution.

Kerrigan has the whiff of elitism all over her, but she was victimized by Gillolly and the body guard, hitman. I don't like Kerrigan because of her ice queen demeanor, but the fact she went thru therapy and training in 6 weeks after the attack and won the silver medal was impressive. With that said I think Kerrigan has profited off this crap way more than she should have, and Harding has really fallen off the map because of it.

Olympic medal winners do profit off their wins don't they? I certainly don't think Kerrigan is unique. Cathy Rigby didn't even win an Olympic medal but made a pretty long, lucrative career from being a top American gymnast.

Not personally knowing Kerrigan my only impressions were the ones the the media presented. It's been profitable to Harding to be portrayed as some type of working class hero and to define herself as the true victim in the attack orchestrated by her own husband too. 20 years later, she's still looking outward for answers. In the past 18 years I think the public has heard much more about Tanya Harding than Nancy kerrigan.

Shouldn't they be judged for their athletic accomplishments? Kerrigan rehabbed , competed 6 weeks later and won an Olympic silver medal despite the attack and media hoopla - Harding practiced, competed, had a sub par performance coming in 8th while also dealing with the media hoopla. Those are the indisputable facts, both faced adversity and handled it in their own way. I haven't heard nor read that Kerrigan blamed Harding for the loss of an Olympic gold despite the attack, rehab and loss of practice time right before the Olympics. Only one person still blames others for her failure even 20 years later. Harding still shows the jealousy and insecurity that fueled the original attack and Kerrigan hasn't even commented, disparaged her, been involved in contraversy nor coveted public attention but simply ignored her and lived her life. I think Harding's story is sad but it has nothing at all to do with Kerrigan nor even skating.

 

[djcon57]

Watched and enjoyed the doc. Harding appears to be a pathological liar.

But also really enjoyed some of the inside takes on a JUDGING based sport aka not a sport.
Not speaking on the skill or athleticism it takes. Obviously they are great athletes, but the whole scam of "artistic content" being judged

The judges bitched to Harding about the color of outfit.
20 years later, Kerrigan's coaches think they should have had higher scores, but some judges didn't like the controversy.
So dumb.
Judging based sports are ludicrous.

 

[Alsacs]

Olympic medal winners do profit off their wins don't they? I certainly don't think Kerrigan is unique. Cathy Rigby didn't even win an Olympic medal but made a pretty long, lucrative career from being a top American gymnast.

Not personally knowing Kerrigan my only impressions were the ones the the media presented. It's been profitable to Harding to be portrayed as some type of working class hero and to define herself as the true victim in the attack orchestrated by her own husband too. 20 years later, she's still looking outward for answers. In the past 18 years I think the public has heard much more about Tanya Harding than Nancy kerrigan.

Shouldn't they be judged for their athletic accomplishments? Kerrigan rehabbed , competed 6 weeks later and won an Olympic silver medal despite the attack and media hoopla - Harding practiced, competed, had a sub par performance coming in 8th while also dealing with the media hoopla. Those are the indisputable facts, both faced adversity and handled it in their own way. I haven't heard nor read that Kerrigan blamed Harding for the loss of an Olympic gold despite the attack, rehab and loss of practice time right before the Olympics. Only one person still blames others for her failure even 20 years later. Harding still shows the jealousy and insecurity that fueled the original attack and Kerrigan hasn't even commented, disparaged her, been involved in contraversy nor coveted public attention but simply ignored her and lived her life. I think Harding's story is sad but it has nothing at all to do with Kerrigan nor even skating.

I remember the 1998 Breaking the Ice FOX special hosted by James Brown where Nancy and Tonya sat down together for an interview. Nancy's eyes and body language were super angry at Tonya. Nancy commented and did not forgive Tonya. Its not like she hasn't had a chance to comment on this.
Nancy came off as I said very elitist IMO. I don't blame Nancy for that, but it doesn't mean I have to like for it.

 

[RMH44]

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Harding's boxing exploits.

Tragic figure is American sport.

 

[Cheriehoop]

http://si.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1004989/3/index.htm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-sr...998/history/timeline/articles/time_020294.htm

 

[PeteCalvin]

One of the biggest fairy tales is the "princess" tag for Kerrigan. Her dad was a welder, worked as many as 3 jobs to finance her skating career and drove the local rink's ice resurfacer in exchange for Kerrigan's early skating lessons. Her family was middle class, many saying lower middle class despite the characterizations that she was a haughty,privileged, silver spoon royal type. In 2010, her 70 year old father died of a heart attack while in a heated violent confrontation with her drunken brother who had alcohol and mental issues. He was tried and acquitted of involuntary manslaughter in their fathers' death but convicted and imprisoned for assault and battery. Her family had issues too but I haven't seen nor heard her try to capitalize on it, use it for an excuse for her own bad behavior or to hurt others.

Great post, Cherie. I had never heard that. The media essentially destroyed both of these women in one way or another. Many in the skating world still feel the fix was in at the Olympics, and that Kerrigan was not going to be allowed to win the gold. She had too much media exposure and the whole princess thing was overplayed.

As far as Gillooly - Stone is concerned, why would anyone believe what this piece of crap has to say over Harding? This guy saw dollar signs and acted the way he did because of it. Years later one of the accomplices (Eckhart ?) came out on record and recanted his assertion that Harding knew about the plot ahead of time. He admitted that he had never spoken to her about it, nor was she ever with Gillooly when they discussed the plan. That doesn't prove she didn't know, but it does prove she was railroaded with questionable testimony. Gillooly is a creep and a bum who used Tonya for $$$, going as far as selling their wedding night video to an adult web site. Real class act and TOTALLY worthy of belief.

I thought is was a great documentary. I do feel bad for Harding. To work so hard and lose the dream the way it happened has to be awful. But, she has no one to blame but herself. If she truly wasnt involved, then she should have talked the minute she knew what happened. Keeping quiet was her biggest mistake. There's no saying it would have turned out differently had she done that, but it certainly couldn't have been any worse.

The biggest disappointment of the film is not hearing Kerrigan speak. She could have used this opportunity to dump the princess tag and let people see the real her. I always felt she was a bit stand-offish, and choosing not to talk for the film only cements that image with people, IMHO.

Well, I'll never get these past 10 minutes back. Can't believe I'm talking about Harding-Kerrigan. The whole thing is as much of a dumpster fire as it was then. couchburn

 

[Col. Bleep]

You know it's a slow week in college hoops when there's a big debate over a 20-year-old figure skating incident.

 

[OttoMets]

Watched and enjoyed the doc. Harding appears to be a pathological liar.

But also really enjoyed some of the inside takes on a JUDGING based sport aka not a sport.
Not speaking on the skill or athleticism it takes. Obviously they are great athletes, but the whole scam of "artistic content" being judged

The judges bitched to Harding about the color of outfit.
20 years later, Kerrigan's coaches think they should have had higher scores, but some judges didn't like the controversy.
So dumb.
Judging based sports are ludicrous.

To me, subjectively-judged activities like skating are kind of a joke because of this.

That said, no way that part happened as Harding said. Look at her face and wild gesticulation; she's lying. Total fabrication.

 

[Flacusian]

Harding is the ultimate tragic figure. She was her own worst enemy and her dysfunctional family of origin established the template for her which she perpetuated by surrounding herself with others with character defects and lacking of any moral compass. In the end, even in spite of incredible talent, the negative ju-ju which encapsulated everything in her life was her undoing. So often in sport it is the unification of talent and the mind and soul feeling balanced and in harmony which equals the moments when individuals rise above all others and achieve something special.

Tiger Woods similarly with his unmatched talent and ability, became unglued when the negative / dark side of him took the front seat in his personal life and career. Likewise, Mike Tyson, ARod, Pete Rose... The American sports landscape is littered with so many who flirted with or attained temporary greatness only to plummet back to the level of mere mortals because of self will run riot.

Is this the image of an Ice Princess?