OT: Florida Fires Head Coach Will Muschamp

[TheCusian]

People keep saying that but according to DOE figures we're top 20 in revenues. Not sure how to reconcile our supposed small market status with the numbers.

Booster clubs of the South more than make up the difference.

 

[TheCusian]

Couldn't agree more. Syracuse has something unique that can set it apart from the overloaded group of mediocre ACC teams. And that something isn't being hard nosed. Let Pitt use that one. We'll sell our roof and then outrun them.

Imagining a post 4 years into the future where everyone is pining for a Shafer/Bullough led D.

 

[RF2044]

People keep saying that but according to DOE figures we're top 20 in revenues. Not sure how to reconcile our supposed small market status with the numbers.

There's nothing to reconcile. The DOE figures reflect our first year of receiving ACC revenue sharing. Prior to that, we weren't anywhere close to top 20, especially as it pertained to the AD.

Thankfully we're in a much better financial situation now, because a few years ago, Gross was willing to whore out what should have been home games for the revenue boost doing so would provide to the AD. Top 20 revenue schools don't have to resort to such actions.

 

[GoSU96]

People keep saying that but according to DOE figures we're top 20 in revenues. Not sure how to reconcile our supposed small market status with the numbers.

17th today, by the time the schools that haven't report, SU will be around 30th.

 

[swish7]

Couldn't agree more. Syracuse has something unique that can set it apart from the overloaded group of mediocre ACC teams. And that something isn't being hard nosed. Let Pitt use that one. We'll sell our roof and then outrun them.

We need to start structuring our HC contracts to support the Kaiser scenario as well.

• Need to be able to buy these guys out if they prove to suck. Reserve that money upfront.
• Pay them handsomely if they prove successful
• Need to be able to retain their assistants if they prove successful

All pie in the sky stuff, but why not? We went all wrong on Greggers. Gave an unproven guy a big boy contract. Would have been better off with 4 more years of Pasqualoni.

 

[GoSU96]

We went all wrong on Greggers. Gave an unproven guy a big boy contract. Would have been better off with 4 more years of Pasqualoni.

Now you're getting it.

Got rid of P a year to early, rushed, horrible candidate search and hiring decision.

There were red flags in Robinson's resume, never should have been given the job. Should have been dumped in year two.

As for right now, the only way for Gross to judge Shafer is based on information that only people inside the university are going to have. Given the very unusual number of injuries can't really judge this year on wins and losses.

It's going to be things like effort, individual progress, development on the roster, recruiting, what the talent level looks like the next couple of years. If Shafer is really continuing to improve the level of talent on the team and the level of positional coaching has been high then he should stay.

The defense has been a constant under Shafer from the day he got here. One side of the ball to fix, offense has given up all the progress that was made between 2009 and 2012. With this defense the offense doesn't have to be great, just competent, and they really haven't been for two years.

 

[Millhouse]

Now you're getting it.

Got rid of P a year to early, rushed, horrible candidate search and hiring decision.

There were red flags in Robinson's resume, never should have been given the job. Should have been dumped in year two.

As for right now, the only way for Gross to judge Shafer is based on information that only people inside the university are going to have. Given the very unusual number of injuries can't really judge this year on wins and losses.

It's going to be things like effort, individual progress, development on the roster, recruiting, what the talent level looks like the next couple of years. If Shafer is really continuing to improve the level of talent on the team and the level of positional coaching has been high then he should stay.

The defense has been a constant under Shafer from the day he got here. One side of the ball to fix, offense has given up all the progress that was made between 2009 and 2012. With this defense the offense doesn't have to be great, just competent, and they really haven't been for two years.

i know you put less weight on this stuff than I do but we can judge his decisions during games. sufan44 has the list

http://syracusefan.com/threads/spea...there-was-another-bad-one.82394/#post-1183313

gross should want some assurances on this for next year, it's an easy thing to evaluate and it's an easy thing to fix

 

[rrlbees]

Syracuse next HC should be a offensive coach. I like Ohio State's OC Tom Herron but I want a HC with some experience as a HC after G-Rob, Shafer having no HCing experience. What sucks is we are stuck with the status quo until next year. If Gross would replace Shafer I would double my season tickets from 4 to 8 if that would help the buyout. Doc Holiday is a WV native and Marshall grad but he is a guy I would pay NOW. He will get a P5 job and he can recruit in FL. I wouldn't mind him turning SU around and springboarding us to an even bigger job and then hiring a placeholder HC.

What's funny is that SU has never hired a coach with D1 HC experience.

 

[GoSU96]

i know you put less weight on this stuff than I do but we can judge his decisions during games. sufan44 has the list

http://syracusefan.com/threads/spea...there-was-another-bad-one.82394/#post-1183313

gross should want some assurances on this for next year, it's an easy thing to evaluate and it's an easy thing to fix

It's boob bait for bubba's.

On the hierarchy on how to judge a HC's it's 11th out of 10.

 

[Chip]

Imagining a post 4 years into the future where everyone is pining for a Shafer/Bullough led D.

Don't spend too much time on that exercise. If we're scoring tons of points, then it will be a more fun conversation. Because there will be more people in the Dome, and more people that pay attention and care.

 

[rrlbees]

Now you're getting it. Got rid of P a year to early, rushed, horrible candidate search and hiring decision. There were red flags in Robinson's resume, never should have been given the job.

That's one opinion. Just as many people felt P was kept a year too long. The start and end of the season showed that to be correct.

Also, the GRob hire wasn't as rushed as you think. Gross went thru a very specific process to identify what became 4 candidates. You know all this but HE wanted to follow the same model that HE felt worked at USC. And that was a DC or defensive coach with NFL experience. That's what he followed and he identified 4 candidates that fit that model. GRob, Donnie Henderson, Jerry Gray and Tim Lewis. They were all interviewed and a down select was made to Grob and Gray then Grob hired.

And what red flags on Grob were there related to being a HC? He had no HC experience. Just like Marrone didn't or Shafer didn't. The hire didn't work out but Gross was able to use the process and model he wanted so it wasn't rushed. And of the 4 interviewed that fit the model, Grob had the strongest resume.

 

[TheCusian]

Don't spend too much time on that exercise. If we're scoring tons of points, then it will be a more fun conversation. Because there will be more people in the Dome, and more people that pay attention and care.

You're right. But the goal shouldn't be just to generate fan interest and message board fodder - I want this defensive staff with an offense averaging 30+ points.

 

[Full_Rebar]

That's one opinion. Just as many people felt P was kept a year too long. The start and end of the season showed that to be correct.

Also, the GRob hire wasn't as rushed as you think. Gross went thru a very specific process to identify what became 4 candidates. You know all this but HE wanted to follow the same model that HE felt worked at USC. And that was a DC or defensive coach with NFL experience. That's what he followed and he identified 4 candidates that fit that model. GRob, Donnie Henderson, Jerry Gray and Tim Lewis. They were all interviewed and a down select was made to Grob and Gray then Grob hired.

And what red flags on Grob were there related to being a HC? He had no HC experience. Just like Marrone didn't or Shafer didn't. The hire didn't work out but Gross was able to use the process and model he wanted so it wasn't rushed. And of the 4 interviewed that fit the model, Grob had the strongest resume.

Didn't USC hire a guy with NFL HC experience? Maybe that's where DG has been going wrong all this time.

BTW, I'd also question the notion of using the same process as USC football at Syracuse, but I'm just some guy on the internet.

 

[GoSU96]

That's one opinion. Just as many people felt P was kept a year too long. The start and end of the season showed that to be correct.

Also, the GRob hire wasn't as rushed as you think. Gross went thru a very specific process to identify what became 4 candidates. You know all this but HE wanted to follow the same model that HE felt worked at USC. And that was a DC or defensive coach with NFL experience. That's what he followed and he identified 4 candidates that fit that model. GRob, Donnie Henderson, Jerry Gray and Tim Lewis. They were all interviewed and a down select was made to Grob and Gray then Grob hired.

And what red flags on Grob were there related to being a HC? He had no HC experience. Just like Marrone didn't or Shafer didn't. The hire didn't work out but Gross was able to use the process and model he wanted so it wasn't rushed. And of the 4 interviewed that fit the model, Grob had the strongest resume.

Like I said, horrible selection process and model.

Robinson - we know what happened there.

Henderson - After 2005, Single seasons as DC at Detroit and Jacksonville sandwiched around a year out. The position coach, starting with something called the California Redwoods, volunteer with the Cardinals for two years, DB coach at Southern before SU hired him.

Gray has bounced between being a DC and DB coach since 2005

Lewis has been a position coach since 2006.

Hell of a job with the putting together the candidate pool.

As for Robinson, Superbowl rings courtesy of Terrell Davis and John Elway.

The red flags were him getting fired at Denver and KC, the comments about his defense and style in articles about him everything those articles said about his coaching is what we saw here, with less talent.

He was co-DC at Texas the year before. Big year at Texas, thanks Vince Young and Dick Tomey.

 

[Chip]

Also, the GRob hire wasn't as rushed as you think. Gross went thru a very specific process to identify what became 4 candidates. You know all this but HE wanted to follow the same model that HE felt worked at USC. And that was a DC or defensive coach with NFL experience. That's what he followed and he identified 4 candidates that fit that model. GRob, Donnie Henderson, Jerry Gray and Tim Lewis. They were all interviewed and a down select was made to Grob and Gray then Grob hired.

Thanks for that memory lane. I won't sleep tonight.

As I heard Finebaum saying yesterday, all ADs keep a list of head coaching names in their pocket. In hindsight (and probably foresight for many), the NFL DC model is just a terrible idea for Syracuse.

 

[Millhouse]

It's boob bait for bubba's.

On the hierarchy on how to judge a HC's it's 11th out of 10.

a) it's more important than that

b) you can use it as a proxy for brains which is important for everything else

 

[Millhouse]

That's one opinion. Just as many people felt P was kept a year too long. The start and end of the season showed that to be correct.

Also, the GRob hire wasn't as rushed as you think. Gross went thru a very specific process to identify what became 4 candidates. You know all this but HE wanted to follow the same model that HE felt worked at USC. And that was a DC or defensive coach with NFL experience. That's what he followed and he identified 4 candidates that fit that model. GRob, Donnie Henderson, Jerry Gray and Tim Lewis. They were all interviewed and a down select was made to Grob and Gray then Grob hired.

And what red flags on Grob were there related to being a HC? He had no HC experience. Just like Marrone didn't or Shafer didn't. The hire didn't work out but Gross was able to use the process and model he wanted so it wasn't rushed. And of the 4 interviewed that fit the model, Grob had the strongest resume.

a year, five years, who's counting

 

[rrlbees]

a year, five years, who's counting

I knew you'd chime in. Lol.

 

[rrlbees]

Didn't USC hire a guy with NFL HC experience? Maybe that's where DG has been going wrong all this time. BTW, I'd also question the notion of using the same process as USC football at Syracuse, but I'm just some guy on the internet.

Yep. Carroll had been a HC. And maybe that is the difference. But Gross wanted a guy with a background on defense in the NFL, and that was his candidate pool.

 

[rrlbees]

Like I said, horrible selection process and model. Robinson - we know what happened there. Henderson - After 2005, Single seasons as DC at Detroit and Jacksonville sandwiched around a year out. The position coach, starting with something called the California Redwoods, volunteer with the Cardinals for two years, DB coach at Southern before SU hired him. Gray has bounced between being a DC and DB coach since 2005 Lewis has been a position coach since 2006. Hell of a job with the putting together the candidate pool. As for Robinson, Superbowl rings courtesy of Terrell Davis and John Elway. The red flags were him getting fired at Denver and KC, the comments about his defense and style in articles about him everything those articles said about his coaching is what we saw here, with less talent. He was co-DC at Texas the year before. Big year at Texas, thanks Vince Young and Dick Tomey.

What you said was rushed, which it really wasn't. You don't have to like the model, I don't either. But it wasn't a quick triggered get what he could hire.

And those things you call red flags don't matter at all since he was applying for a HC position. There's also been a hell of a lot of defensive coaches with worse resumes. His was pretty darn good even though you want to minimize it.

 

[GoSU96]

What you said was rushed, which it really wasn't. You don't have to like the model, I don't either. But it wasn't a quick triggered get what he could hire.

And those things you call red flags don't matter at all since he was applying for a HC position. There's also been a hell of a lot of defensive coaches with worse resumes. His was pretty darn good even though you want to minimize it.

It was rushed, you had an AD who had been on the job for less than month pushed by a Chancellor who had been there less than a year.

That is the definition of rushed. They had no business making that the decision at that time. It was reckless and incompetent and has had negative consequences to this day.

 

[GoSU96]

a) it's more important than that - Not really

b) you can use it as a proxy for brains which is important for everything else - so the definition of smart is someone who agrees with you about 50/50 calls twice a game and if they don't, and that's the professionals don't agree with an amateur, they are stupid.

 

[Millhouse]

That's one opinion. Just as many people felt P was kept a year too long. The start and end of the season showed that to be correct.

Also, the GRob hire wasn't as rushed as you think. Gross went thru a very specific process to identify what became 4 candidates. You know all this but HE wanted to follow the same model that HE felt worked at USC. And that was a DC or defensive coach with NFL experience. That's what he followed and he identified 4 candidates that fit that model. GRob, Donnie Henderson, Jerry Gray and Tim Lewis. They were all interviewed and a down select was made to Grob and Gray then Grob hired.

And what red flags on Grob were there related to being a HC? He had no HC experience. Just like Marrone didn't or Shafer didn't. The hire didn't work out but Gross was able to use the process and model he wanted so it wasn't rushed. And of the 4 interviewed that fit the model, Grob had the strongest resume.

pretending like some of those calls are 50/50 is stupid

 

[KaiserUEO]

It was rushed, you had an AD who had been on the job for less than month pushed by a Chancellor who had been there less than a year.

That is the definition of rushed. They had no business making that the decision at that time. It was reckless and incompetent and has had negative consequences to this day.

they rushed to fire P for sure, but at the end of the day...im not sure the hiring of grobbycakes was rushed.

im sure gross' put that little list together in september. i remember all of those names being tossed around here and on a name only basis...i hitched my wagon to Jerry Gray, if only because i was hoping Mossy Cade would come with him (provided he wasnt in jail)...but once the resumes were stacked up, grob was a clear winner.

fwiw, while i was in the addazio camp, marrone's resume was also probably the best...which tells me that we need a new guy putting the pool of candidates together once they mercifully FIRE SS.

 

[GoSU96]

they rushed to fire P for sure, but at the end of the day...im not sure the hiring of grobbycakes was rushed.

im sure gross' put that little list together in september. i remember all of those names being tossed around here and on a name only basis...i hitched my wagon to Jerry Gray, if only because i was hoping Mossy Cade would come with him (provided he wasnt in jail)...but once the resumes were stacked up, grob was a clear winner.

fwiw, while i was in the addazio camp, marrone's resume was also probably the best...which tells me that we need a new guy putting the pool of candidates together once they mercifully FIRE SS.

The firing was rushed, and that led to the disaster that followed.

What's it tell you that a guy that had been fired twice in the five years prior, the last time having the the worst and 4th worst defenses in the NFL his two years in KC, and a one season, not one year, but one season stint as Co-DC at UT, a program that had gone 10-3 the year before, was the BEST candidate in the pool, for HC no less.