OT - Knicks - do you take Melo/Chandler or George/Hibbert?

[OrangeFoo]

Just to preface this post, I am a huge Knicks fan and I have been my entire life. I think this series is exposing Melo for who he is... The second coming of Glenn Robinson. The only coach who can make him a good all around player is his college coach, Coach Boeheim.

If I am starting a team today I take George/Hibbert over Melo/Chandler and I probably take the Pacers point over Felton, West over STAT... The only Knick I would potentially take over a Pacer is Shumpert over Stephensen and even that is 50/50.

Time to blow up the Knicks... they are now at best the 3rd best team in the conference and probably the 4th behind the Bulls. When Rose is back they are at the most 4th. Not sure what a team of 30+ players is going to do against 3 teams younger, deeper and better than them. Time to start over.

If I'm the Knicks I try to trade Melo and or Chandler, tank next year to get into the Wiggins lottery, get rid of Amare after next year and try to compete in 2015. I know this is totally unrealistic since Melo is untradeable.

Sorry for the rant but I find these Knicks games to be unwatchable... the Knicks have no clue what they are doing and are not playing like a team at all.

 

[OrangeCrush22]

Anthony is 28. Continue to build around him. Ditch Stoudemire.

 

[PoppyHart]

The Pacers duo are also a combined 9 years younger.

 

[MadNY3]

Tough call. If Hibbert can be like he was in game 3 70 percent of the time, than that is the easy answer.

Menlo with back to back games with zero points in the fourth. Ick.

 

[OrangeFoo]

Anthony is 28. Continue to build around him. Ditch Stoudemire.

Paul George is single handedly taking Melo out of the game... against the Bulls Luol Deng and Butler take turn taking Melo out of the game, Miami doesn't need to be said Lebron takes out Melo. Can you build around a player who does nothing to make anyone better and can be taken out of a game both physically and mentally? I don't know... I think the only way Melo can win is if the Knicks can get Chris Paul this summer so Melo can be a second banana.

 

[Madbiker]

Think the Knicks could use a guard who can make a damned outside shot? Their guards are pathetic. JR Smith has cost himself a ton of money with his awful playoff performance. The media will bash Melo for not scoring 40 every game but there isn't another double digit scorer on the Knicks when they play top level competition. Get him some help. And the answer isn't Amare.

 

[OrangeDW]

The Knicks won 54 games and made the 2nd round if the playoffs. It was the first time they were actually good in like 13 years. And you're ready to blow it up already? I would think you should just enjoy being good for the first time in forever for a little bit at least, before jumping the gun on wanting to blow it up.

 

[MikeSU02]

Tough call. If Hibbert can be like he was in game 3 70 percent of the time, than that is the easy answer.

Menlo with back to back games with zero points in the fourth. Ick.

It's not a tough call. You can't win the NBA title without a superstar. Hibbert nor George are that.

By no means is this an endorsement for Melo and Tyson as being flawless, but there is absolutely no way a team built around George and Hibbert is winning the title. None.

Tyson is playing injured and the Pacers are historically one of the best defensive teams of all time this season (legitimately). The Knicks offense has been predicated on hitting threes and extracting the most from old players and knuckleheads.

At least with Melo you have an outside shot, a la the year that the Mavs won with Dirk. Unless you can see Paul George outplaying LeBron, Durant, or some of the other true superstars, there is no way that in a seven game series George and Hibbert are a better shot than Melo and Tyson. A healthy Tyson is a great defensive force.

Separately, to address the original poster - anyone that thinks getting Wiggins is a better bet than Melo is insane. A 200 pound wing whose biggest issues are "motor" and "doesn't like the media" as THE star in NYC? Please. Unless you are ready for Rudy Gay 2.0, I would think again.

 

[OrangeDW]

Paul George is single handedly taking Melo out of the game... against the Bulls Luol Deng and Butler take turn taking Melo out of the game, Miami doesn't need to be said Lebron takes out Melo. Can you build around a player who does nothing to make anyone better and can be taken out of a game both physically and mentally? I don't know... I think the only way Melo can win is if the Knicks can get Chris Paul this summer so Melo can be a second banana.

Would Melo really be a "2nd banana" with Paul? What does that even mean? Melo would probably score 30 per game on a better % if he played with Paul.

 

[Knicks411]

When Chandler is healthy, I will take the Knicks duo.

If the Knicks got Paul (which isn't happening) I think Melo would be the second best player on the team, but he would score a ton of points.

 

[raf4488]

How is Melo the problem when he's the only one on the floor who can score? The Pacers have to respect Felton's ability to drive to an extent, but otherwise they're free to focus on Melo because no other Knick can put the ball in the basket this series.

 

[OrangeFoo]

The Knicks won 54 games and made the 2nd round if the playoffs. It was the first time they were actually good in like 13 years. And you're ready to blow it up already? I would think you should just enjoy being good for the first time in forever for a little bit at least, before jumping the gun on wanting to blow it up.

This is the problem... they are relevant for the first time in decades. Do you see Prigioni/Kidd/K-mart/et al... doing this again next year. And even if they do the same thing is going to happen again next year, they will lose in the conference semis to the Bulls, Pacers or Hear. I think their window is closed before it was even open.

 

[OrangeFoo]

When Chandler is healthy, I will take the Knicks duo.

If the Knicks got Paul (which isn't happening) I think Melo would be the second best player on the team, but he would score a ton of points.

I think Chandler is the most overrated player in the league. He has zero impact offense and he can't guard a decent big man 1 on 1... he has been lucky he's played the majority of his career when all of the other big men sucked.

 

[Melancer46]

It's George/Hibbert easy. George can't be your batman, but he'll be much more receptive to playing within the team. Melo, JR, and Woodson are doing their best to screw up what might be the best chance they ever have of winning a title together. I'm just too frustrated to go into detail on how each one is screwing it all up, but they are.

 

[ssbriefcase]

It's George/Hibbert easy. George can't be your batman, but he'll be much more receptive to playing within the team. Melo, JR, and Woodson are doing their best to screw up what might be the best chance they ever have of winning a title together. I'm just too frustrated to go into detail on how each one is screwing it all up, but they are.

They never had a chance at a title. And I guess you're kinda right, because they all won't be together again to ever have a chance..

 

[Melancer46]

They never had a chance at a title. And I guess you're kinda right, because they all won't be together again to ever have a chance..

With the way they used to move the ball, they could have stood a chance if they just got hot against the Heat. But those three in particular have worked their asses off to make sure they don't have to play the Heat at all.

 

[OrangeDW]

This is the problem... they are relevant for the first time in decades. Do you see Prigioni/Kidd/K-mart/et al... doing this again next year. And even if they do the same thing is going to happen again next year, they will lose in the conference semis to the Bulls, Pacers or Hear. I think their window is closed before it was even open.

You don't know what's going to happen. Even though they've been solid for a few years now, I don't think I've ever seen one prediction of Memphis going to the finals, ever. Now they look to be the favorite. Last year they lost to the Clippers, this year they beat them.

I think you're giving up a bit too easily. Jason Kidd(at this point) and Kenyon Martin can be replaced. They can be upgraded. Make the right moves. Doesn't have to be a big splash move. golden State getting Jarrett Jack, Memphis getting Jerryd Bayless...low key moves that pan out.

Even the Rudy Gay for Prince trade that was mostly crushed at the time, ended up being a good move for Memphis. Make a few good moves, rather than blowing it up. Lebron goes down next May and who knows. Not that you wish for that, but with Rose and Westbrook the last two years...it's a part of the game.

 

[SoBeCuse]

I think if George had to and didn't have good talent around him he could go for 25-28 ppg. I think he is that good. He has a deceptively good handle (better than Carmelo in terms of slithering to the rim) and rebounds very well too. I think in 3-5 years he will be a dominant forward. You could make a case that he is almost there when you factor in his defense. Hibbert is getting better and better. Amazing footwork for a guy that big. I would take George/Hibbert because of their youth.

 

[SoBeCuse]

You don't know what's going to happen. Even though they've been solid for a few years now, I don't think I've ever seen one prediction of Memphis going to the finals, ever. Now they look to be the favorite. Last year they lost to the Clippers, this year they beat them.

I think you're giving up a bit too easily. Jason Kidd(at this point) and Kenyon Martin can be replaced. They can be upgraded. Make the right moves. Doesn't have to be a big splash move. golden State getting Jarrett Jack, Memphis getting Jerryd Bayless...low key moves that pan out.

Even the Rudy Gay for Prince trade that was mostly crushed at the time, ended up being a good move for Memphis. Make a few good moves, rather than blowing it up. Lebron goes down next May and who knows. Not that you wish for that, but with Rose and Westbrook the last two years...it's a part of the game.

Mike Conley has become an excellent PG. Randolph/Gasol are a load to deal with. Lots of skill for those two big guys.

 

[Orange2389]

Just to preface this post, I am a huge Knicks fan and I have been my entire life. I think this series is exposing Melo for who he is... The second coming of Glenn Robinson. The only coach who can make him a good all around player is his college coach, Coach Boeheim.

If I am starting a team today I take George/Hibbert over Melo/Chandler and I probably take the Pacers point over Felton, West over STAT... The only Knick I would potentially take over a Pacer is Shumpert over Stephensen and even that is 50/50.

Time to blow up the Knicks... they are now at best the 3rd best team in the conference and probably the 4th behind the Bulls. When Rose is back they are at the most 4th. Not sure what a team of 30+ players is going to do against 3 teams younger, deeper and better than them. Time to start over.

If I'm the Knicks I try to trade Melo and or Chandler, tank next year to get into the Wiggins lottery, get rid of Amare after next year and try to compete in 2015. I know this is totally unrealistic since Melo is untradeable.

Sorry for the rant but I find these Knicks games to be unwatchable... the Knicks have no clue what they are doing and are not playing like a team at all.

Ive only read a few sentences in this post and ive had enough.The knicks have no clue what they are doing? ok. Once SU loses, this board goes f*cking nuts calling for the whole team to implode and throw away JB like a piece of trash. ohhhh boyyyyy. Now its the knicks. Melo is a once in a lifetime athlete. You dont trade him away. If ya did, your ass would be fired. You build around him. If JB was the only coach who can make him good then why the hell did he just win the NBA lead scorer? Why is he always an allstar? Why did he blow up in the olympics? Why are players like KOBE afraid to play him... yikes guy

 

[Brooky03]

Hibbert is dominating the paint against the Knicks. They simply do not have an answer for him, including Chandler. I would take George/Hibbert for that reason alone.

George is not the better player or piece of a team than Melo, though. Melo is clearly the worse defender but George is not a defender at such a level that it overshadows Melo's offensive ability. Basically, the advantage George has as a defender is negated and overrun by Melo's ability to score and spark the offense. George is not a great creator; he relies heavily on the 3 and knocks down open shots. Double team him or put a good defender on him (Shumpert with more height) and George is toast.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Hibbert is dominating the paint against the Knicks. They simply do not have an answer for him, including Chandler. I would take George/Hibbert for that reason alone.

George is not the better player or piece of a team than Melo, though. Melo is clearly the worse defender but George is not a defender at such a level that it overshadows Melo's offensive ability. Basically, the advantage George has as a defender is negated and overrun by Melo's ability to score and spark the offense. George is not a great creator; he relies heavily on the 3 and knocks down open shots. Double team him or put a good defender on him (Shumpert with more height) and George is toast.

Melo is a more talented offensive player now, especially as a variety shooter but I'll argue that George can get to the rim better. He has a better handle. At times when he has one of those awesome drives it looks LeBron-esque the way he can drive with the ball and avoid traffic.

 

[OrangeDW]

I think if George had to and didn't have good talent around him he could go for 25-28 ppg. I think he is that good. He has a deceptively good handle (better than Carmelo in terms of slithering to the rim) and rebounds very well too. I think in 3-5 years he will be a dominant forward. You could make a case that he is almost there when you factor in his defense. Hibbert is getting better and better. Amazing footwork for a guy that big. I would take George/Hibbert because of their youth.

He's not scoring 25 per game shooting as poorly from the field as he does right now though. He's got a lot of talent and is a very good all around player, but his offensive game needs a lot of refining to become a big scorer like that.

 

[NailstheCusefan12]

Just to preface this post, I am a huge Knicks fan and I have been my entire life. I think this series is exposing Melo for who he is... The second coming of Glenn Robinson. The only coach who can make him a good all around player is his college coach, Coach Boeheim.

If I am starting a team today I take George/Hibbert over Melo/Chandler and I probably take the Pacers point over Felton, West over STAT... The only Knick I would potentially take over a Pacer is Shumpert over Stephensen and even that is 50/50.

Time to blow up the Knicks... they are now at best the 3rd best team in the conference and probably the 4th behind the Bulls. When Rose is back they are at the most 4th. Not sure what a team of 30+ players is going to do against 3 teams younger, deeper and better than them. Time to start over.

If I'm the Knicks I try to trade Melo and or Chandler, tank next year to get into the Wiggins lottery, get rid of Amare after next year and try to compete in 2015. I know this is totally unrealistic since Melo is untradeable.

Sorry for the rant but I find these Knicks games to be unwatchable... the Knicks have no clue what they are doing and are not playing like a team at all.

Even if you win the Wiggins lottery you owe Denver your 2014 draft pick. Also, if you blow it up and are terrible in 2016, Denver has the option to swap picks with you if yours is more favorable.

 

[OrangeDW]

Mike Conley has become an excellent PG. Randolph/Gasol are a load to deal with. Lots of skill for those two big guys.

Conley has played really well the 2nd half of this year. I like his game a lot.