OT - Last Days of Knight...

[Newhouser]

Eh, I'm not going to make one-to-one comparisons for fear of derailing the thread, but in my experience there are very, very few power-conference coaches who care about athletes getting a high-level university education. I've got every reason to believe Knight really did.

I agree that he earned the reputation he's got: first and foremost he should be known as the hair-trigger temper dude, not the basketball brain or the pro-books coach.

I was thinking about this while watching. As a guy who thinks everyone is dirty and education is the farthest thing from any of these guys minds - I wonder are there more coaches who care about grad rates and other things in Knights wheelhouse or coaches that got physical with players and were as verbally abusive as he was in general? In a shady profession I think there are more coaches who are like Knights good side than his dark side.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

His approach toward his players in the late 90s, according to the documentary, says otherwise.

The "Game", to me, is Xs and Os. At least, that is what I meant by the game.

However, you are correct, you can be the smartest Xs and Os guy in the world but if you cannot get your players to buy in, it won't matter...

 

[Eric15]

CuyahogaCuse has a great story about a time when he interviewed Bobby Knight. I won't steal his thunder.

That would be awesome if we suddenly find out CuyahogaCuse is actually Jeremy Schapp.

 

[RF2044]

That would be awesome if we suddenly find out CuyahogaCuse is actually Jeremy Schapp.

Ha ha ha!

I don't think that CuyahogaCuse spends much time on the hoops board, so I'll pass the story along because it fits perfectly in this thread [he told this to me back in the 2001 timeframe, so I probably have some minor details wrong -- apologies in advance, CC!]

CuyahogaCuse is a Newhouse grad, and right out of college he got a job working with the Marathon Oil traveling team [comprised of former college players], who teams like SU often scrimmage in the exhibition portion of the schedule. As part of that program, he would interview the coaches from the team, they would do a PA endorsing the Marathon Oil program for sponsorship, etc.

Now, anyone who has met CuyahogaCuse can attest that he's a consumate professional -- very clean cut guy, outstanding communicator, extremely friendly, etc. So when Marathon Oil is going to play @ Indiana, he meets with Bobby Knight to do this type of interview / PA. CuyahogaCuse kicks of the interview innocuously, saying something like: "My name is XYZ, and I'm here with legendary, hall of fame coach, Bobby Knight from Indiana. Bobby, thank you for being here with me today."

He then asks a question, which Knight begins to answer. But midway through his answer, Knight cuts off in midsentence and asks CuyahogaCuse: "What did you call me? Did you call me Bobby?"

CuyahogaCuse is initially confused, and watches as all 6-6 of Bobby Knight stands up to loom over him, pointing a finger in his face: "You call me Coach or Coach Knight, not Bobby!" He then throws the microphone down and storms off.

A few minutes later, one of the basketball office people bring him back, and he sits down with a huff, and then proceeds to do a full interview like nothing ever happened. The "rest" of the interview was very cordial, pleasant, etc. as if they were talking for the first time, and the dust-up never transpired.

CC--I know I must have gotten some details wrong, but I LOVE this story!

 

[Cheriehoop]

Many humans are enigmas.

 

[tbonezone]

Many humans are enigmas.

there are limits we as teachers/coaches/ civic examples do not cross . he leapfrogged them regularly.

 

[Cheriehoop]

there are limits we as teachers/coaches/ civic examples do not cross . he leapfrogged them regularly.

Sorry but that wasn't my point, I just wasn't clear. How many times after even murderers are caught that some people will be absolutely shocked because the person was so nice to them, while others who had interactions are not surprised at all? Supposedly loving parents committing crimes or bullying their own children, spouses, siblings etc? Many people end up being enigmas - people who act unpredictably, are puzzling - good and bad. Being a bad person doesn't mean they aren't capable of some good -and visa versa. It's why many people who do bad things have defenders touting the good things they do. I probably didn't communicate what I meant very well.

 

[tbonezone]

i get that cheri. and agree about private. but Knight was a public dbag. there for anybody to see and hear.

 

[Cheriehoop]

i get that cheri. and agree about private. but Knight was a public dbag. there for anybody to see and hear.

I don't understand where you think I'm defending him.

 

[tbonezone]

we should share seats at a game . and exchange angry glares.

 

[Cheriehoop]

we should share seats at a game . and exchange angry glares.

LOL I'm not angry though.

 

[Orange87]

I watched it last night and found it very compelling and a very sad story for all involved.

I was a senior at SU when IU beat the Orange for the title. My son is now a senior at IU. When we went there several years ago for a campus tour they showed us the Showalter Fountain in the middle of campus and told us a story involving the fish sculptures in the fountain. There were four fish and one was smaller than the other three. We were told that in the aftermath of IU winning that '87 championship, the students rioted and stole the four statues. Three were recovered but one never was which explains its replacement's smaller size.

Fun story but after watching last night's program, I'm thinking it happened after Knight was fired because they said the fountain was vandalized then.

Anyway, here's a picture of a party my fraternity at SU threw a few weeks after Indiana beat us in '87.

 

[tbonezone]

LOL I'm not angry though.

ok. and pretzels.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

I watched it last night and found it very compelling and a very sad story for all involved.

I was a senior at SU when IU beat the Orange for the title. My son is now a senior at IU. When we went there several years ago for a campus tour they showed us the Showalter Fountain in the middle of campus and told us a story involving the fish sculptures in the fountain. There were four fish and one was smaller than the other three. We were told that in the aftermath of IU winning that '87 championship, the students rioted and stole the four statues. Three were recovered but one never was which explains its replacement's smaller size.

Fun story but after watching last night's program, I'm thinking it happened after Knight was fired because they said the fountain was vandalized then.

Anyway, here's a picture of a party my fraternity at SU threw a few weeks after Indiana beat us in '87.


View attachment 145920

Gotta be Sig Ep...

 

[Orange87]

Gotta be Sig Ep...

Yup.

 

[721Comstock]

I watched it last night and found it very compelling and a very sad story for all involved.

I was a senior at SU when IU beat the Orange for the title. My son is now a senior at IU. When we went there several years ago for a campus tour they showed us the Showalter Fountain in the middle of campus and told us a story involving the fish sculptures in the fountain. There were four fish and one was smaller than the other three. We were told that in the aftermath of IU winning that '87 championship, the students rioted and stole the four statues. Three were recovered but one never was which explains its replacement's smaller size.

Fun story but after watching last night's program, I'm thinking it happened after Knight was fired because they said the fountain was vandalized then.

Anyway, here's a picture of a party my fraternity at SU threw a few weeks after Indiana beat us in '87.


View attachment 145920

Strangely enough, I have a copy of that pic too.

Plus, several of us were group-texting last night, and a bunch of pics from the NOLA trip to the Sugar Bowl made the rounds. Man, we were young then.

Such a great trip - except for gutless p*ssy Pat Tye and the last minute of that game.

 

[moqui]

It was also clear that the reporter did have an agenda, even if it was a good one, he was very one sided in the telling of the whole story and pretty much ignored much of what the fallout was going to do to the people who did step forward.
.

only watched about 45 minutes before i got called away, but this stood out to me, too. not sure it's good journalistic practice to have the guy who initially reported the story then produce the documentary. would have been better to have a separate party behind it. what i saw really came across as this guy (and his editor) primarily interested in defending their reporting and practices rather than using the passage of time to bring new perspective to the incident. maybe that came across in the parts i missed, but what i saw had a lot of defensiveness

please don't read this as in any way excusing bobby knight.

 

[CusefanATL]

the reporter seemed to think he was changing the world with his investigation. The guy was an intimidater and an a hole. not an abuser of innocent kids.

knight should have been suspended or fired or rehabbed - whatever you prefer is ok with me. But it isnt THAT big of a story.

 

[Orange87]

Strangely enough, I have a copy of that pic too.

Plus, several of us were group-texting last night, and a bunch of pics from the NOLA trip to the Sugar Bowl made the rounds. Man, we were young then.

Such a great trip - except for gutless p*ssy Pat Tye and the last minute of that game.

I got a good story about that Sugar Bowl but rather than bore everyone here with 1980’s SigEp war stories, I shall save it for when next I see you Toadster.

 

[kirbivore]

Kent Harvey's father was a vocal Knight critic. Some think that incident was a set up.

 

[Cusefan95]

Sorry but that wasn't my point, I just wasn't clear. How many times after even murderers are caught that some people will be absolutely shocked because the person was so nice to them, while others who had interactions are not surprised at all? Supposedly loving parents committing crimes or bullying their own children, spouses, siblings etc? Many people end up being enigmas - people who act unpredictably, are puzzling - good and bad. Being a bad person doesn't mean they aren't capable of good -and visa versa. It's why many people who do bad things have defenders touting the good things they do. I probably didn't communicate what I meant very well.

Back in the ‘90s, I worked with a guy who knew Jerry Sandusky well, and told stories relating what a great guy he was. He was shocked and horrified when it came out what a sham The Second Mile was, and what a terrible person Sandusky is.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Back in the ‘90s, I worked with a guy who knew Jerry Sandusky well, and told stories relating what a great guy he was. He was shocked and horrified when it came out what a sham The Second Mile was, and what a terrible person Sandusky is.

Sometimes the most evil people are the best at disguising it.

 

[Toga]

Were all these things just a big misunderstanding?

1970s

• It was reported (although years after the incident) that Knight choked and punched IU's longtime sports information director, Kit Klingelhoffer, in the 1970s, over a news release that upset the coach.[8]
• On December 7, 1974, Indiana and Kentucky met in the regular season in Bloomington with a 98–74 Indiana win. Near the end of the game, Bob Knight went to the Kentucky bench where the official was standing to complain about a call. Before he left, Knight hit Kentucky coach Joe B. Hall in the back of the head.[47] UK's assistant coach Lynn Nance, a former FBI agent who was about 6 feet 5 inches, had to be restrained by Hall from hitting Knight. Hall later said, "It publicly humiliated me."[48] Knight said the slap to the head was something he has done, "affectionately" to his own players for years. "But maybe someone would not like that," he said. "If Joe didn't like it, I offer an apology. I don't apologize for the intent." ... "Hall and I have been friends for a long time," Knight said. "If he wants to dissolve the friendship, that's up to him."[49] Knight blamed the furor on Hall, noting in his inimitable style, "If it was meant to be malicious, I'd have blasted the into the seats."[50]
• During the 1979 Pan American Games in San Juan, Puerto Rico, Knight was accused of assaulting a police officer while coaching the US Basketball team before a practice session. He was later convicted in absentia to a six-month jail sentence, but extradition efforts by the Puerto Rican government were not successful.[51]
• 1960 Olympic gold medalist Douglas Blubaugh was head wrestling coach at IU from 1973 to 1984. Early in his tenure while he jogged in the practice facility during basketball practice, Knight yelled at him to leave, using more than one expletive. Blubaugh pinned Knight to a wall, and told him never to repeat his performance. He never did.[52]

1980s

• In a game at Bloomington on January 31, 1981 between Indiana and Purdue, Hoosier star Isiah Thomas allegedly hit Purdue guard Roosevelt Barnes in what some critics described as a "sucker punch".[53] Video replay shown by Knight later showed Barnes had mistakenly thrown the first punch, and that Thomas was merely reacting to this. When the two schools played their second game of the season at Purdue on February 7, 1981, Knight claimed a number of derisive chants were directed at him, his wife, and Indiana University. In response Knight invited Purdue athletic director George King on his weekly television show to discuss the matter, but King declined. Therefore, in place of King, Knight brought onto the show a "jackass" (male donkey) wearing a Purdue hat as a representative of Purdue.[54][55] The 1980–81 Hoosiers would go on to win the 1981 NCAA National Championship, the school's fourth national title.
• On Saturday, February 23, 1985 during a game at Bloomington between Purdue and Indiana, just five minutes into the game, a scramble for a loose ball resulted in a foul call on Indiana's Marty Simmons. Immediately after the resumption of play, a foul was called on Indiana's Daryl Thomas. Knight, irate, insisted the first of the two calls should have been for a jump ball and ultimately received a technical foul. Purdue's Steve Reid stepped to the free throw line to shoot the resulting free throws, but before he could, Knight grabbed a red plastic chair from Indiana's bench and threw it across the floor toward the basket in front of Reid. Knight was charged with second and third technical fouls and was ejected from the game. He apologized for his actions the next day and was given a one-game suspension and two years probation from the Big Ten. Since the incident, Knight has occasionally joked about throwing the chair by saying that he saw an old lady standing on the opposite sideline and threw her the chair so she could sit down.[56][57]
• Women's groups nationwide were outraged by Knight's comments during an April 1988 interview with Connie Chung in which he said, "I think that if rape is inevitable, relax and enjoy it." The same comment had already gotten weatherman Tex Antoine fired from WABC-TV in New York twelve years earlier and would ultimately derail the Texas gubernatorial bid of Clayton Williamstwo years later.[58] Knight's comment was in reference to an Indiana basketball game in which he felt the referees were making poor calls against the Hoosiers.

1990s

• At a practice leading up to an Indiana–Purdue game in West Lafayette in 1991, Knight unleashed a torrent of expletives and threats designed to motivate his Indiana team. In one portion he exclaims he is " tired of losing to Purdue." Unknown to most, someone was secretly taping the speech. The speech has since gone viral and has over 1.84 million views on YouTube alone.[59] Although it is still not known who taped the speech, many former players suspect it was former manager and current NBA assistant coach Lawrence Frank. Players who were present were unable to remember the specific speech because such expletive-filled outbursts by Knight were so frequent.[60]
• In March 1992 prior to the NCAA regional finals, controversy erupted after Knight playfully mock whipped Indiana players Calbert Cheaney and Pat Graham during practice. The bullwhip had been given to Knight as a gift from his team. Several black leaders complained at the racial connotations of the act, given that Cheaney was a black student.[61]
• In January 1993, Knight mentioned the arrival of Ivan Renko to his team as a trick meant to expose disreputable basketball recruiting experts. Even though Renko was completely fictitious, several recruiting services started listing him as a prospect.
• Knight was recorded berating an NCAA volunteer at a March 1995 post-game press conference following a 65–60 loss to Missouri in the first round of the NCAA tournament held in Boise, Idaho. The volunteer, Rance Pugmire, informed the press that Knight would not be attending the press conference, when in reality, Knight was running a few minutes late and had planned on attending per NCAA rules. Knight was shown saying: "You've only got two people that are going to tell you I'm not going to be here. One is our SID [Sports Information Director], and the other is me. Who the hell told you I wasn't going to be here? I'd like to know. Do you have any idea who it was? ... Who? ... They were from Indiana, right? ... No, they weren't from Indiana, and you didn't get it from anybody from Indiana, did you?...No, I—I'll handle this the way I want to handle it now that I'm here. You (EXPLETIVE) it up to begin with. Now just sit there or leave. I don't give (EXPLETIVE) what you do. Now back to the game."[62][63]
• Former Indiana player Neil Reed alleged that Knight had grabbed him by the neck in a choking manner during a 1997 practice. A videotape of the incident was shown on CNN.[8]
• Neil Reed and former Indiana player Richard Mandeville alleged in a CNN interview that Knight once showed players his own feces. According to Mandeville, Knight said, "'This is how you guys are playing.'"[64]

2000s

• On February 19, 2000, Clarence Doninger, Knight's boss, alleged to have been physically threatened by the coach during a confrontation after a game.[8]
• An Indiana investigation inquired about an allegation in which Knight berated and physically intimidated a university secretary, once throwing a potted plant in anger, showering her with glass and debris. The university later asked the coach to issue an apology to the secretary.[8]
• It was alleged that Knight attacked assistant coach Ron Felling, throwing him out of a chair after overhearing him criticizing the basketball program in a phone conversation.[8]
• On September 8, 2000, Indiana freshman Kent Harvey told campus police Knight grabbed him roughly by the arm and berated him for speaking to the coach disrespectfully. Knight admitted putting his hand on the student's arm and lecturing him on civility, but denied that he was rough or raised his voice. The coach was fired from the university two days later.[8]
• Two days after Knight was fired from Indiana University, Jeremy Schaap of ESPN interviewed him and discussed his time at Indiana. Towards the end of the interview, Knight talked about his son, Pat, who had also been dismissed by the university, wanting an opportunity to be a head coach. Schaap, thinking that Knight was finished, attempted to move on to another subject, but Knight insisted on continuing about his son. Schaap repeatedly tried to ask another question when Knight shifted the conversation to Schaap's style of interviewing, notably chastising him about interruptions. Knight then commented (referring to Schaap's father, Dick Schaap), "You've got a long way to go to be as good as your dad!"[65]
• In March 2006, a student's heckling at Baylor University resulted in Knight having to be restrained by a police officer. The incident was not severe enough to warrant any action from the Big 12 Conference.[66]
• On November 13, 2006, Knight was shown allegedly hitting player Michael Prince under the chin to get him to make eye contact. Although Knight didn't comment on the incident afterwards and has not yet done so, Prince, his parents, and Texas Tech Athletic Director Gerald Myers insisted that Knight did nothing wrong and that he merely lifted Prince's chin and told him, "Hold your head up and don't worry about mistakes. Just play the game." Prince commented, "He was trying to teach me and I had my head down so he raised my chin up. He was telling me to go out there and don't be afraid to make mistakes. He said I was being too hard on myself."[67]
• On October 21, 2007, James Simpson of Lubbock, Texas, accused Knight of firing a shotgun in his direction after he yelled at Knight and another man for hunting too close to his home.[68]Knight denied the allegations. An argument between the two men was recorded via camera phone and aired later on television.[69]
• On December 17, 2009, Knight insulted longtime rival Kentucky and its coach John Calipari, saying, "We've gotten into this situation where integrity is really lacking and that's why I'm glad I'm not coaching. You see we've got a coach at Kentucky, who put two schools [UMass and Memphis] on probation and he's still coaching. I really don't understand that."

2010s

• On April 18, 2011, video surfaced showing Knight responding to a question concerning John Calipari and Kentucky's men's basketball team by stating that in the previous season, Kentucky made an Elite Eight appearance with "five players who had not attended a single class that semester." These claims were later disproven by the University and the players in question, including Patrick Patterson, who graduated in three years, and John Wall, who finished the semester in question with a 3.5 GPA.[70] Knight later apologized for his comments stating, "My overall point is that 'one-and-dones' are not healthy for college basketball. I should not have made it personal to Kentucky and its players and I apologize."[71]
• Former Indiana basketball player Todd Jadlow has written a book alleging that from 1985 to 1989 former IU coach Bob Knight punched him, broke a clipboard over his head, and squeezed his testicles and the testicles of other Hoosiers, among other abuses.[72]

Well sure, there's that.

 

[elimunelson]

I have no idea how or why Jim Brown remains revered. If one of the people he abused had died, he’s OJ Simpson...

Because we protect our own. Jim Brown was worse than Bob Knight end of day in terms of behavior.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

I want to debate you on everything you said, but let's just agree to disagree.

That's best for you.