OT - NYK

[Knicks411]

I always figured a stretch big was someone who could hit shots 16-18 feet away. just far enough to unclog the lane.

I dunno, it's probably a term that doesn't really have an actual definition. I think of guys like Ryan Anderson, Memo Okur, Channing Frye.

Nah they might not. It was just a thought. Also they have so much open cap space at the moment that they are actually below the minimum and are going to have to pay the difference anyway.

I'm not sure how the amnestied players works. I know it clears up cap space, but I'm not sure if they would have to pay it if they were below the minimum otherwise. (They amnestied Baron Davis last year, including him they are at $62 million.)

Andy makes less than I thought. Varejao and Luke Walton for Amare works under the cap, but I don't see Cleveland (or anyone else, sigh) trading shorter term salary oblgiations for Amare.

 

[Orangezoo]

Ok so I haven't researched this at all - but what are the terms in Pau Gasol's contract? Could Amare for Pau work? It seems in the ball movement system that maybe Pau off the bench would be better. I know LA is in salary cap hell - but maybe with Mike in LA, moving a guy who really doesn't fit into a D'antoni system and bringing in a guy who does might work?

 

[Knicks411]

Ok so I haven't researched this at all - but what are the terms in Pau Gasol's contract? Could Amare for Pau work? It seems in the ball movement system that maybe Pau off the bench would be better. I know LA is in salary cap hell - but maybe with Mike in LA, moving a guy who really doesn't fit into a D'antoni system and bringing in a guy who does might work?

Gasol makes $38 million the next 2 years. Amare makes $63 million the next 3 years. The swap would work under the cap, but with LA spending so much money, and banking on re-upping Dwiht, I don't see them taking on Amare's $23 million salary in 2015 when Gasol would be off the books.

 

[Orangezoo]

Gasol makes $38 million the next 2 years. Amare makes $63 million the next 3 years. The swap would work under the cap, but with LA spending so much money, and banking on re-upping Dwiht, I don't see them taking on Amare's $23 million salary in 2015 when Gasol would be off the books.

ahh - thanks for clarifying.. wasn't sure if Gasol had 2 or 3 yrs left. With that said - one can only hope for Amare to follow the Brandon Roy path. Felton has created a nice chemistry with Tyson , I think thats plenty of production with the PNR. Its not like its some super secret offensive weapon that no one can guard. I don't know what it is, but it just seems like Amare is a 6'7 tweener stuck in a 6'10 big's body. He never plays big on either side of the ball IMHO.

 

[strumpfasaurus]

For the people super critical of Amare the one game the Knicks beat the Heat Melo dropped like 41 and Amare went for 20 and 10. Really small sample but lets give the duo a chance under Woodson with this team before we throw Amare under the bus.

 

[Knicks411]

For the people super critical of Amare the one game the Knicks beat the Heat Melo dropped like 41 and Amare went for 20 and 10. Really small sample but lets give the duo a chance under Woodson with this team before we throw Amare under the bus.

Well they did have one good game out of 5 in a series where they got blown out in the other 4 games, so there is that...

The Knicks have basically been played about even with Melo and Amare on the floor together. There is a reason for this.

 

[OrangeDW]

I think it might still be true that the Knicks gave up too much because they seemed to have the leverage and then seemed to throw it away. Denver has pretty much been the same team since they lost Melo as they were when they had him, so maybe not better off, but don't seem to be any worse off.

The "net" of what they gave away is Wilson Chandler and Gallinari. Two guys who will never be all stars or anywhere close, for a top 15, at worse, player. Chandler's are a dime a dozen, there are about 50 guys like that in the league who can be had pretty cheaply at any time. Gallinari is a little better but c'mon. Some went nuts over him like he was really some prize.

The NBA is a superstar league....without one, you have almost no chance. Denver felt they had to get something for him rather than lose him in FA, but those fans who tried to paint that trade as a win for Denver because they were fairly sucessful at the time...just laughable.

Denver is far worse off without Melo because they don't have a chance. At best, they are where the Hawks were for the last 6 years.....with no chance to go further. They will be solid, competitive, and I actually like quite a few of their players. But the net of what they got is looking worse and worse...nobody considered that those "young" guys they got may have already peaked and neither is much better than average. They now have no star and almost no chance to get one at any time in the near future, and neither guy they traded for is even one of their top 3 players.

 

[Knicks411]

Denver is far worse off without Melo because they don't have a chance. At best, they are where the Hawks were for the last 6 years.....with no chance to go further

My only rebuttal to that is that is where they were with Melo as well. I believe the idea is that it was a win for Denver in the sense that they knew they were losing Melo. They wanted to keep him.

The "net" of what they gave away is Wilson Chandler and Gallinari. Two guys who will never be all stars or anywhere close, for a top 15, at worse, player.

Timofey Mozgov doesn't do it for you?!??!

Knicks also sent away a 2014 first rounder and the right to swap first rounders as well. Worth pointing out. And they also swapped the point guards; so they took Billups back and in order to get Tyson they amnestied Billups. If they never had to take on Billups in the first place than they still might have that amnesty to use on Amare. (Unless there is a step in there I missed)

It's more just little stuff that adds up that they probably didn't need to include to get the deal done.

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

Gasol makes $38 million the next 2 years. Amare makes $63 million the next 3 years. The swap would work under the cap, but with LA spending so much money, and banking on re-upping Dwiht, I don't see them taking on Amare's $23 million salary in 2015 when Gasol would be off the books.

And isn't the idea possibly that LAL wants to have very little money tied up in 2 years when Lebron could possibly be available? You could see them making a push...especially when Dwayne Wade likely on his last legs. In 2 seasons, Bron might go to La La land to win a couple more titles.

 

[moqui]

And isn't the idea possibly that LAL wants to have very little money tied up in 2 years when Lebron could possibly be available? You could see them making a push...especially when Dwayne Wade likely on his last legs. In 2 seasons, Bron might go to La La land to win a couple more titles.

that's the apparent plan . . . and plan B if that doesn't work is they will keep the space for the following year when Kevin Love becomes available

 

[CorduroyG]

My only rebuttal to that is that is where they were with Melo as well. I believe the idea is that it was a win for Denver in the sense that they knew they were losing Melo. They wanted to keep him.



Timofey Mozgov doesn't do it for you?!??!

Knicks also sent away a 2014 first rounder and the right to swap first rounders as well. Worth pointing out. And they also swapped the point guards; so they took Billups back and in order to get Tyson they amnestied Billups. If they never had to take on Billups in the first place than they still might have that amnesty to use on Amare. (Unless there is a step in there I missed)

It's more just little stuff that adds up that they probably didn't need to include to get the deal done.

While denver with melo obivously never won a championship, they were 2 wins away from the finals in 2009 with a legit chance to win it all that year, i doubt denver is getting within 2 games of the finals anytime soon. Who knows if the knicks had to give up as many "little things" as they did, but you make that trade 100 times out of 100 regardless. They were alot of knick fans who didnt like that trade, never understood that. I remember saying this is a great trade for knicks unless gallo turns into the next nowitzki, and i dont think thats happening.

 

[Melancer46]

The "net" of what they gave away is Wilson Chandler and Gallinari. Two guys who will never be all stars or anywhere close, for a top 15, at worse, player. Chandler's are a dime a dozen, there are about 50 guys like that in the league who can be had pretty cheaply at any time. Gallinari is a little better but c'mon. Some went nuts over him like he was really some prize.

The NBA is a superstar league....without one, you have almost no chance. Denver felt they had to get something for him rather than lose him in FA, but those fans who tried to paint that trade as a win for Denver because they were fairly sucessful at the time...just laughable.

Denver is far worse off without Melo because they don't have a chance. At best, they are where the Hawks were for the last 6 years.....with no chance to go further. They will be solid, competitive, and I actually like quite a few of their players. But the net of what they got is looking worse and worse...nobody considered that those "young" guys they got may have already peaked and neither is much better than average. They now have no star and almost no chance to get one at any time in the near future, and neither guy they traded for is even one of their top 3 players.

Didn't read the rest of this thread yet, but Gallinari might have been an all-star last year if he hadn't gotten hurt.

 

[OrangeDW]

Didn't read the rest of this thread yet, but Gallinari might have been an all-star last year if he hadn't gotten hurt.

No way. He had some big games early in the year and people get all hyped up on those while ignoring that he'll follow up his 30 point games by going 1-10 and scoring 5 points the next night...and he does little else well besides score.

 

[Knicks411]

While denver with melo obivously never won a championship, they were 2 wins away from the finals in 2009 with a legit chance to win it all that year, i doubt denver is getting within 2 games of the finals anytime soon. Who knows if the knicks had to give up as many "little things" as they did, but you make that trade 100 times out of 100 regardless. They were alot of knick fans who didnt like that trade, never understood that. I remember saying this is a great trade for knicks unless gallo turns into the next nowitzki, and i dont think thats happening.

Yeah; I grant you 09 they were close. I wouldn't expect Denver to get to the conference finals any time soon. (Though anything is possible). It' snot like Denver was actively wanting to deal Melo.

It's also worth pointing out that I'm pretty sure Denver has a much better record than the Knicks since the trade, and just as much playoff success (by that I mean none). Looks like the tide is turning this year, and I'm definitely hoping that's the case. I would agree with the notion that in the NBA, the team that gets the better player wins the trade 9 times out of 10; I just remember at the time thinking the Knicks probably could've gotten away with giving up less. In the long run that probably won't be a big deal, but any time Dolan gets involved (as he apparently did in this case) out of habit I take the other side.

I do think Gallo can be a pretty good player though; maybe just short of an all star. He's shooting terribly so far this year.

 

[OrangeDW]

My only rebuttal to that is that is where they were with Melo as well. I believe the idea is that it was a win for Denver in the sense that they knew they were losing Melo. They wanted to keep him.

.

They had a chance though. You have to have a franchise, superstar guy to win, period. The only exception was Detroit in 2004 and it's even harder to build a team that way.

You've got an elite player, then it's just a matter of getting the right guys around him, clicking at the right time, etc. Just look at Dallas with Dirk...nobody thought their window was still open and suddenly they get hot and win it all in 2011. Who knows, if Melo would've stayed in Denver that could've eventually happened. Even if not, there's at least the possibility.

Denver had to get something for him, they were in a tough place. I'm not taking issue with what they did. I'm questioning the Knicks fans who badly overrated what they gave up, that moron D'Antoni who didn't want to make the deal, and all the casual NBA observers who just wanted to go against the "spoiled superstar" and act like Denver really had it going on by picking up a couple basic players who were young. Just laughably wrong.

 

[Melancer46]

No way. He had some big games early in the year and people get all hyped up on those while ignoring that he'll follow up his 30 point games by going 1-10 and scoring 5 points the next night...and he does little else well besides score.

That's great and all, but it's a fact. He was one of the guys that everyone was talking about as possibly being an All-Star last year. I remember him and Brandon Jennings specifically (the latter because I'm a Bucks fan so I was paying attention to him).

"Denver Nuggets small forward and leading scorer Danilo Gallinari had been on the fringe of the All-Star picture and considered a finalist for a reserved spot, but he ultimately didn't make the cut."

http://denver.sbnation.com/denver-n...ar-game-danilo-gallinari-sb-nation-tom-ziller

 

[Knicks411]

They had a chance though. You have to have a franchise, superstar guy to win, period. The only exception was Detroit in 2004 and it's even harder to build a team that way.

You've got an elite player, then it's just a matter of getting the right guys around him, clicking at the right time, etc. Just look at Dallas with Dirk...nobody thought their window was still open and suddenly they get hot and win it all in 2011. Who knows, if Melo would've stayed in Denver that could've eventually happened. Even if not, there's at least the possibility

Yeah, for me, my biggest worry was I'm not sure Melo is in that class. I'm definitely hoping to be wrong. If he's the 10th or 15th best player in the league, like you mention above, then he's probably not. If he's better, then he is.

Of course then your rebuttal can be you can't be sure they would've gotten a chance to get a better player than him in the FA or trade market, which is fair.

Also, wanted to point out the Knicks FO deserves a lot of credit for putting the rest of the team together because they haven't had a lot of money to work with

 

[OrangeDW]

That's great and all, but it's a fact. He was one of the guys that everyone was talking about as possibly being an All-Star last year. I remember him and Brandon Jennings specifically (the latter because I'm a Bucks fan so I was paying attention to him).

"Denver Nuggets small forward and leading scorer Danilo Gallinari had been on the fringe of the All-Star picture and considered a finalist for a reserved spot, but he ultimately didn't make the cut."

http://denver.sbnation.com/denver-n...ar-game-danilo-gallinari-sb-nation-tom-ziller

OK, that's fine that the Denver Nuggets feel he was close to making it, it's also a fact that he didn't make it, and has never made it. And I predict that he'll never make one.

 

[OrangeDW]

Yeah, for me, my biggest worry was I'm not sure Melo is in that class. I'm definitely hoping to be wrong. If he's the 10th or 15th best player in the league, like you mention above, then he's probably not. If he's better, then he is.

Of course then your rebuttal can be you can't be sure they would've gotten a chance to get a better player than him in the FA or trade market, which is fair.

Also, wanted to point out the Knicks FO deserves a lot of credit for putting the rest of the team together because they haven't had a lot of money to work with

Yeah I said 15th at the worst, meaning even those who don't like him can't really argue that.

Personally, I put him higher but I'm a little biased.

The Knicks FO does deserve credit. Gettig Chandler was obviously a very good move. And this year, getting efficient and smart players who play defense like Kidd and Brewer, were good moves. The Lin thing was so overhyped it's ridiculous, but that's a whole different rant I have for a very similar set of Knicks/NBA fans who are/were just off the mark on these things.

 

[Melancer46]

Yeah, for me, my biggest worry was I'm not sure Melo is in that class. I'm definitely hoping to be wrong. If he's the 10th or 15th best player in the league, like you mention above, then he's probably not. If he's better, then he is.

Of course then your rebuttal can be you can't be sure they would've gotten a chance to get a better player than him in the FA or trade market, which is fair.

Also, wanted to point out the Knicks FO deserves a lot of credit for putting the rest of the team together because they haven't had a lot of money to work with

The addition of Ronnie Brewer in particular was one of my favorite signings of the off-season. He doesn't have the hype of a lot of other guys, but he's quietly a very solid player, and defensively, he's superb.

 

[Knicks411]

I loved loved loved the Brewer signing at the time

 

[reedny]

Just shows how much I know.. I turned the game off last night just after the start of the 4th quarter. Then they catch fire in the last 7 minutes. Figures.

For those claiming they can't shoot like that (after I turned off the game) ... they didn't the first 3 quarters. So it wasn't uncanny, it was just the law of averages.

And someone please explain to me why Melo is bringing the ball up the court ... is this because they're going to have him playing 2g when Amare returns ... or is this to take the pressure off the point (and Amare in the second rotation when Melo's out)?

 

[baggerbob]

Getting people like Kidd, Camby, Wallace players who have been around who have earned respect. Amare will listen to people like that, and with Melo , JR already buying in, I believe Knicks will be even better when Amare and Shump get back.

 

[jvbj01]

Best.team.in.the.NBA... I can't believe how many people didn't see this coming. This team is a freight train of greatness.

You sound like RutgersAl. Give it two months and see where they are.

 

[longislandcuse]

Refs have been ATROCIOUS in this Knicks/Memphis game. I feel like I'm watching Cuse/OSU all over again.