OT: Penn State to get scholarships back

[jonvi]

Coach Paterno was as honorable of a man as they come. The accusations about him are not conssitent with his lifes work. Coach Boeheim and he are very much a like.

I'm surprised to see the negative comments about Penn State from SU fans.

Many from outside of the Syracuse city limits has said much the same about SU, Bernie Fine and Coach Boeheim. Yet here I'm reading the same tired stuff about another institution from folks who just went through it.

 

[javadoc]

Many from outside of the Syracuse city limits has said much the same about SU, Bernie Fine and Coach Boeheim. Yet here I'm reading the same tired stuff about another institution from folks who just went through it.

What? Seriously? We just went through a horrifying scandal in which something actually happened?

:bang:

 

[Alsacs]

Coach Paterno was as honorable of a man as they come. The accusations about him are not conssitent with his lifes work. Coach Boeheim and he are very much a like.

I'm surprised to see the negative comments about Penn State from SU fans.

Many from outside of the Syracuse city limits has said much the same about SU, Bernie Fine and Coach Boeheim. Yet here I'm reading the same tired stuff about another institution from folks who just went through it.

Dude after he heard what Mike McQeary told him he saw with his own two eyes and all he did was inform his AD and DID NOT CALL THE POLICE. I lost all respect for Joe Paterno and Mike McQeary after that. Even if I couldn't stop what was happening I have told every single one of my friends I would have gotten my ass kicked trying to stop it and the fact Paterno did the MINIMUM acceptable thing he could have done I lost ALL OF MY RESPECT for him. If I knew a child was getting done to them what McQeary told Paterno I am getting my ass kicked preventing a child from having his life ruined.

 

[tep624]

Coach Paterno was as honorable of a man as they come. The accusations about him are not conssitent with his lifes work. Coach Boeheim and he are very much a like.

I'm surprised to see the negative comments about Penn State from SU fans.

Many from outside of the Syracuse city limits has said much the same about SU, Bernie Fine and Coach Boeheim. Yet here I'm reading the same tired stuff about another institution from folks who just went through it.

Yeah I mean because, afterall, Bernie Fine was convicted in a court of law. Oh wait, forgot about that little detail.

 

[jonvi]

Dude after he heard what Mike McQeary told him he saw with his own two eyes and all he did was inform his AD and DID NOT CALL THE POLICE. I lost all respect for Joe Paterno and Mike McQeary after that. Even if I couldn't stop what was happening I have told every single one of my friends I would have gotten my ass kicked trying to stop it and the fact Paterno did the MINIMUM acceptable thing he could have done I lost ALL OF MY RESPECT for him. If I knew a child was getting done to them what McQeary told Paterno I am getting my ass kicked preventing a child from having his life ruined.

Mike McQueary was the one man who could have done something and didn't.

Coach Paterno did what PA law and PSU bi-laws required of him. As an old school guy, he expected everyone else to do their jobs. And again, Coach Paterno is working on a statement from an ex football player that did nothing. With second hand information, he was in no position to do anything.

 

[jonvi]

Yeah I mean because, afterall, Bernie Fine was convicted in a court of law. Oh wait, forgot about that little detail.

You do know the statue of limitations expired and is the only reason there was not a trial.

And my fault with those pounding PSU is I read the same crap about SU. And their statements are lacking in facts very similar to what I'm reading here.

 

[Legendof44]

Coach Paterno was as honorable of a man as they come. The accusations about him are not conssitent with his lifes work. Coach Boeheim and he are very much a like.

I'm surprised to see the negative comments about Penn State from SU fans.

Many from outside of the Syracuse city limits has said much the same about SU, Bernie Fine and Coach Boeheim. Yet here I'm reading the same tired stuff about another institution from folks who just went through it.

No offense but you sir are an idiot. I dont care if you have given 400 billion dollars to charities throughout your life...If you have knowledge of children being raped for many many years ( IT WAS PROVEN HE DID ) then that erases every freaking dollar. I dont give a stuff what espn says about his good years. Its real easy to change that.

 

[Legendof44]

Paterno is burning in hell right now because he stood there and let it happen for over a decade. Jonvi is attempting to front as a cuse fan as well as a logical person but noone believes either.

 

[tep624]

You do know the statue of limitations expired and is the only reason there was not a trial.

And my fault with those pounding PSU is I read the same crap about SU. And their statements are lacking in facts very similar to what I'm reading here.

Do you really want to compare the quality of the case against Bernie Fine if it went to trial vs. Sandusky? Do you really want to make yourself look ridiculous?

And personally I don't give a stuff what Joe Pa's procedural requirements were. He as a human being had a MORAL obligation to do something other than sit on his hands and expect someone else to do something. If you can't see the fault in that then you are completely warped.

Would you be quoting his obligations under PA law if it was your kid getting raped?

 

[RF2044]

Mike McQueary was the one man who could have done something and didn't.

Coach Paterno did what PA law and PSU bi-laws required of him. As an old school guy, he expected everyone else to do their jobs. And again, Coach Paterno is working on a statement from an ex football player that did nothing. With second hand information, he was in no position to do anything.

Regardless of whether he was "required" to contact law enforcement or not [pretty weak moral argument you're making there, but let's take that at face value for a second], why on earth did this ostensibly "honorable" man continue to provide Sandusky with unrestricted access to PSU facilities and allow Sandusky to be alone with children on PSU facilities AFTER he had knowledge of Sandusky's beavhior?

"No position to do anything" -- why is that? Didn't Paterno know the difference between right and wrong?

What a freaking joke.

 

[TheCusian]

We are supposed to believe that the saint Joe Pa was just following protocol as an old school guy? Really? Your defense is that he did things like they did in the 50's and who could blame the sweet old man for thinking things were different in 2010 or whenever?!? And that makes him not culpable?

The Penn State culture blinds all who follow.

For the record - many, many people on this board in our community did not blindly support Jimmy B in the wake of the Fine situation. We took a wait and see attitude. Now that it's largely passed with most allegations negated or proven faulty - we are okay with how it worked out and was handled by most everyone except ESPN.

 

[TheCusian]

Mike McQueary was the one man who could have done something and didn't.

Coach Paterno did what PA law and PSU bi-laws required of him. As an old school guy, he expected everyone else to do their jobs. And again, Coach Paterno is working on a statement from an ex football player that did nothing. With second hand information, he was in no position to do anything.

No position to do anything?!?!? The guy was the most popular guy in all of PA! If he found it to be morally wrong - he could have made some real noise about it.

 

[Alsacs]

Mike McQueary was the one man who could have done something and didn't.

Coach Paterno did what PA law and PSU bi-laws required of him. As an old school guy, he expected everyone else to do their jobs. And again, Coach Paterno is working on a statement from an ex football player that did nothing. With second hand information, he was in no position to do anything.

I mean this why I am ashamed of some Penn State fans. My girlfriend is a Penn State alum and while she loves Penn State football and her father still has season tickets after the McQueary news came out her family was pissed that Paterno didn't do anything except tell Curley. I mean the guy has numerous grandkids and hears McQueary who himself is a POS for not taking the beating and trying to stop Sandusky and seeing what he saw done. Paterno may not have had a legal obligation to inform the police but ANY PERSON WITH A BRAIN would make sure the police were informed I mean c'mon and then he continued to give Sandusky access to the football facility. I am not going to crush Paterno anymore but he lost my respect when he didn't do anything more than the minimum. Paterno was more powerful than Curley as Paterno himself was the Penn State AD and football coach during the 1970s and while Curley made have had a higher title but Paterno had more influence.

 

[Eric15]

I'll be honest, I really don't care about Penn State's scholarship situation. What I care about is that...

(a) the five culprits of this unspeakable atrocity are severely punished. Paterno is dead, Sandusky will die in jail, and Spanier/Curley/Schultz are in the process of being prosecuted, their trial will start next year. Those are the people responsible for the crime - not the current players or coaches.

(b) the victims are compensated for their suffering, which they have been. No dollar amount can ever fix the damage these poor kids faced, but I hope these young men are financially secure for the rest of their lives.

(c) Penn State implements all 118 changes required by the Freeh report, which by all accounts they have. Many other universities have used the Freeh report to remodel their internal policies and procedures, as well.

 

[rrlbees]

Coach Paterno was as honorable of a man as they come. The accusations about him are not conssitent with his lifes work. Coach Boeheim and he are very much a like.

I'm surprised to see the negative comments about Penn State from SU fans.

Many from outside of the Syracuse city limits has said much the same about SU, Bernie Fine and Coach Boeheim. Yet here I'm reading the same tired stuff about another institution from folks who just went through it.

No. Paterno was a POS who condoned child rape .


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[javadoc]

I'll be honest, I really don't care about Penn State's scholarship situation. What I care about is that...

(a) the five culprits of this unspeakable atrocity are severely punished. Paterno is dead, Sandusky will die in jail, and Spanier/Curley/Schultz are in the process of being prosecuted, their trial will start next year. Those are the people responsible for the crime - not the current players or coaches.

(b) the victims are compensated for their suffering, which they have been. No dollar amount can ever fix the damage these poor kids faced, but I hope these young men are financially secure for the rest of their lives.

(c) Penn State implements all 118 changes required by the Freeh report, which by all accounts they have. Many other universities have used the Freeh report to remodel their internal policies and procedures, as well.

Good point, a welcome positive from the whole sordid wreck.

 

[RF2044]

I'll be honest, I really don't care about Penn State's scholarship situation. What I care about is that...

(a) the five culprits of this unspeakable atrocity are severely punished. Paterno is dead, Sandusky will die in jail, and Spanier/Curley/Schultz are in the process of being prosecuted, their trial will start next year. Those are the people responsible for the crime - not the current players or coaches.

(b) the victims are compensated for their suffering, which they have been. No dollar amount can ever fix the damage these poor kids faced, but I hope these young men are financially secure for the rest of their lives.

(c) Penn State implements all 118 changes required by the Freeh report, which by all accounts they have. Many other universities have used the Freeh report to remodel their internal policies and procedures, as well.

You missed an important item: (d) that a culture capable of supporting such atrocities as multiple, repeated child rapes in the interest of protecting their football program be penalized such that similar transgressions are not tolerated in the future.

And the NCAA chumped out on this last item, which inadvertently sends the wrong message to the lemming culture that would perpetuate / indirectly condone such abominable behavior, so long as their football program isn't adversely impacted.

Disgusting.

Anyone with a brain should be appalled. I was disgusted yesterday to see a few sports writers claim that the NCAA reducing the penalties against PSU was justifiable as a way to "correct" the severe penalties that were imposed.

Given the delusional culture permeating that program, fanbase, and state, I'd say that the NCAA penalties didn't go nearly far enough.

 

[Eric15]

You missed an important item: (d) that a culture capable of supporting such atrocities as multiple, repeated child rapes in the interest of protecting their football program be penalized such that similar transgressions are not tolerated in the future.

And the NCAA chumped out on this last item, which inadvertently sends the wrong message to the lemming culture that would perpetuate / indirectly condone such abominable behavior, so long as their football program isn't adversely impacted.

Disgusting.

Anyone with a brain should be appalled. I was disgusted yesterday to see a few sports writers claim that the NCAA reducing the penalties against PSU was justifiable as a way to "correct" the severe penalties that were imposed.

Given the delusional culture permeating that program, fanbase, and state, I'd say that the NCAA penalties didn't go nearly far enough.

I just don't see it that way, RF. I'm not advocating for a reduction of Penn State's penalties, I'm just saying that I don't really care if they are. The penalties were probably unnecessarily harsh to begin with and don't really accomplish anything. Kornheiser and Wilbon (not that their opinions mean more than the average person) talked at length on PTI yesterday saying that same thing.

Justice has been served or is being served for the specific people who either directly or indirectly carried out these horrific crimes.

 

[rrlbees]

I just don't see it that way, RF. I'm not advocating for a reduction of Penn State's penalties, I'm just saying that I don't really care if they are. The penalties were probably unnecessarily harsh to begin with and don't really accomplish anything. Kornheiser and Wilbon (not that their opinions mean more than the average person) talked at length on PTI yesterday saying that same thing.

Justice has been served or is being served for the specific people who either directly or indirectly carried out these horrific crimes.

1. There's a morals clause in the NCAA rule book.
2. They didn't get punished for what Sandusky did, they got punished for the lack of institutional and athletic department action and the cover up.
3. How many schools get punished and innocent athletes having to pay the price for the past transgressions of other individuals? Almost every NCAA sanction or punishment.


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[RF2044]

1. There's a morals clause in the NCAA rule book.
2. They didn't get punished for what Sandusky did, they got punished for the lack of institutional and athletic department action and the cover up.
3. How many schools get punished and innocent athletes having to pay the price for the past transgressions of other individuals? Almost every NCAA sanction or punishment.

Spot on.

 

[RF2044]

I just don't see it that way, RF. I'm not advocating for a reduction of Penn State's penalties, I'm just saying that I don't really care if they are. The penalties were probably unnecessarily harsh to begin with and don't really accomplish anything. Kornheiser and Wilbon (not that their opinions mean more than the average person) talked at length on PTI yesterday saying that same thing.

Justice has been served or is being served for the specific people who either directly or indirectly carried out these horrific crimes.

Justice has been served?

Not when you lessen penalties that were more about an institutional culture run amok than the transgressions themselves. Frankly, the penalties didn't go nearly far enough, IMO -- especially when you see how PSU is reacting to the penalty reductions, their continued defiance when it comes to acknowledging what happened was wrong, etc.

 

[Eric15]

Justice has been served?

Not when you lessen penalties that were more about an institutional culture run amok than the transgressions themselves. Frankly, the penalties didn't go nearly far enough, IMO -- especially when you see how PSU is reacting to the penalty reductions, their continued defiance when it comes to acknowledging what happened was wrong, etc.

Continued defiance? How do you figure? Everything I have read indicates that they have implemented virtually all of the 119 institutional changes mandated by the Freeh report.

 

[Consigliere]

All you had to do was spend a couple of hours in the MetLife parking lot surrounded by "JoPa" tshirts, hats and life size cardboard cutouts to see the denial in the fan base. There was a culture of ignorance and enablement around the Penn State football program with horribly misplaced priorities that turned a blind eye to the attrocities or many years. Nothing has changed.

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[RF2044]

Continued defiance? How do you figure? Everything I have read indicates that they have implemented virtually all of the 119 institutional changes mandated by the Freeh report.

All you had to do was spend a couple of hours in the MetLife parking lot surrounded by "JoPa" tshirts, hats and life size cardboard cutouts to see the denial in the fan base. There was a culture of ignorance and enablement around the Penn State football program with horribly misplaced priorities that turned a blind eye to the attrocities or many years. Nothing has changed.

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See above.

And please don't mistake institutional compliance for the culture that precipitated [and perpetuated] this tragedy.

 

[Eric15]

See above.

So you're saying Consigliere's anedcotal observations while tailgating hold more weight than Sen. George Mitchell's (independent auditor of PSU's reforms) opinion that Penn State has completely complied with what they were ordered to do?