Our last 8 games defensively | Page 2 | Syracusefan.com

Our last 8 games defensively

For the season vs last 2 seasons:

Better Defensive Rating - We're 188th out of 362 currently, 2 years ago were were 323

We allow 8 3's a game vs 10 3s a game the last 2 seasons

The defense is not good. It's better than the last 2 years. Recency bias (and agenda) makes some of you think otherwise.
 
We’re terrible defending ball screens. I think part of it is guys conserving energy but we switch way too easily. Guys were fighting through and dialed in the first half of ND then mailed it in the second half.
Yep, depth is an issue for sure
 
For the season vs last 2 seasons:

Better Defensive Rating - We're 188th out of 362 currently, 2 years ago were were 323

We allow 8 3's a game vs 10 3s a game the last 2 seasons

The defense is not good. It's better than the last 2 years. Recency bias (and agenda) makes some of you think otherwise.
Those are good numbers. We are also the third worst defense in the ACC and give up more points than last year. The object of defense is to limit the points the opponent scores and we are worse at that this year. We are also worse at FG % allowed. Losing McLeod hurt but we were poor before that too. We simply do not have very good defensive players this year and we didn’t last year either.
 
Those are good numbers. We are also the third worst defense in the ACC and give up more points than last year. The object of defense is to limit the points the opponent scores and we are worse at that this year. We are also worse at FG % allowed. Losing McLeod hurt but we were poor before that too. We simply do not have very good defensive players this year and we didn’t last year either.
We give up more points because we play faster. That's why you look at Defensive Rating. I'm sure you understand pace, right?
 
We can try to find hidden reasons, and I do think depth is a factor including losing a rim presence in McLeod, but here's the unhidden reason and it's simple- we have too many below average to bad defenders playing substantial minutes. The consistency is also a big issue and there's a clear snowball effect (like ND 2nd half), but that qualifies as bad defense by the players.
I mean I'm not saying we'd be great defensively if not for guys being tired and protecting against fouls. I'm just saying that's a good theory on why the last 8 games are so bad. Overall, we're bad defensively because we have a few weak defenders, some guys were recruited to play zone and now are playing man poorly, and there is inconsistent effort.

I expect to see big strides next year defensively. If not, that reflects poorly on Red.
 
It does not help that our forwards are small and our center is a 6ft 8 forward. We can’t defend inside and get killed on the boards.

Yes, the defense on the perimeter should be better, but that is not the prime issue with this line-up.
 
I mean I'm not saying we'd be great defensively if not for guys being tired and protecting against fouls. I'm just saying that's a good theory on why the last 8 games are so bad. Overall, we're bad defensively because we have a few weak defenders, some guys were recruited to play zone and now are playing man poorly, and there is inconsistent effort.

I expect to see big strides next year defensively. If not, that reflects poorly on Red.

Whether they were allegedly recruited here to play zone, that fact of the matter is, all of these players played very high level basketball for years prior to getting to the Hill. Moreover, all of them at this higher level of prep play, etc., predominantly played man to man.

In any event, I do wholeheartedly buy into the inconsistent effort. Not only do I buy into it, IMO, it's by far the most significant reason for our poor defense.

Below is a quote from an NBA head coach whose team had the best defense in the league last year, is very good defensively again this year, and currently sitting in 2nd place in the Eastern Conference standings.

“If you want to win in this league at the level we hope to, you can’t do it if you don’t guard. Defense comes down to the effort you’re willing to put in. The second effort. The third effort. The fourth effort. Right now, we don’t have enough guys putting in that second, third and fourth effort.”
 
The defense would seem better if we learned that when a shot goes up you dont have to stand and wait for someone else to go get it. And thats on both sides of the ball.

Its just like baseball, when the ball is hit you move towards the base or the ball often both. In basketball when the shot goes up, go towards the basket. Do it every time and you will get more rebounds.

Why do we just stand and watch the shot and then react if it comes down towards us? At least Copeland does it.. Brown by location alone does it. We need to see more of it from the forwards. and the same thing on D, when the guards come back down its great to see them get rebounds. We dont break so what else do they have to do?
 
Interesting thread. Anything I would say is covered above, but the main problem I see is our guards let the opposing guards do whatever they want, most of the time. They drive past us with ease. We do little to disrupt their offense, which is the point of defense
 
Did Red finally stop zoning out of bounds plays in the 2nd half? I swear we went m2m. Hope it’s a sign of progress and not a one-off.
He went m2m at least once on an inbound play against ND. Not sure if he did it more than once.
 
He went m2m at least once on an inbound play against ND. Not sure if he did it more than once.
Ok so I wasn't seeing things. This is encouraging. I wish someone would track our Defensive efficiency on out of bounds possessions in the zone. It can't be good.
 
It does not help that our forwards are small and our center is a 6ft 8 forward. We can’t defend inside and get killed on the boards.

Yes, the defense on the perimeter should be better, but that is not the prime issue with this line-up.
Sometimes it is just this simple.
 
We give up more points because we play faster. That's why you look at Defensive Rating. I'm sure you understand pace, right?
I am sure you understand watching with your eyes. We are all awful defensively. You can spout all your numbers you like but open your eyes and watch. Seems like you have some zone PTSD you can’t get past. Perhaps you need some help in trying not to be so defensive about it.
 
I am sure you understand watching with your eyes. We are all awful defensively. You can spout all your numbers you like but open your eyes and watch. Seems like you have some zone PTSD you can’t get past. Perhaps you need some help in trying not to be so defensive about it.
I stated facts. I specifically said "The defense is not good" as my opinion. Context for my initial post was the op asked "The worst stretch of defense in my lifetime as a fan? I'm not sure, but man, those numbers are brutal". I responded with numbers.

You responded with insults asking me to "open my eyes". I'll give you the last word.
 
with brown guarding out top our middle is softer than a pillsbury spokesdoughball.
 
I'm impressed with the constructive criticism on this thread. I think we really have to draw the line at the Wake blowout and really only look at the defense from then on. 2 days later Benny was dismissed and we knew for sure that Hima and Carey were not going to give us anything.

7 bodies left. We just don't have enough bodies to change things up when the defense gets lazy.

I'm going to go full fanboy and make some excuses the last 6 games where we are 4-2. To be clear I'm not ok with the defense for all the reasons above, but just adding some things why our 20 year olds didn't get it done on defense.

-NC State 2nd half-->Foul discrepancy. 20 to 12 fouls NCState advantage. State actually only scored 3 more points in the 2nd that they did in the first, but our offense just was not as hot shooting. There were plays we fully conceded hoops just to not take fouls. Brown played with 3-4 fouls most of game. Refs called everything on us.
-ND 2nd Half --> Judah played with 4 touch fouls. Refs called him every time he got near the ball looking for steals. Judah just straight up stopped defending and Burton made us pay. JJ no excuse he was pretty bad all 2nd half on a smaller quicker guard.
-Clemson 2nd --> Could not stop points in the paint all game (48). 2nd half this led to missed assignments on the shooters eventually.
-Louisville all game --> Trap game coming off Benny dismissal. Team was not mentally prepared and off all game defensively.
-UNC: No complaints
-Georgia Tech: defense was not the issue, just offense.
 
We give up more points because we play faster. That's why you look at Defensive Rating. I'm sure you understand pace,

I stated facts. You responded with insults

I stated facts. I specifically said "The defense is not good" as my opinion. Context for my initial post was the op asked "The worst stretch of defense in my lifetime as a fan? I'm not sure, but man, those numbers are brutal". I responded with numbers.

You responded with insults asking me to "open my eyes". I'll give you the last word.
Fair enough and I apologize for my eyes comment. I know you know hoops. I’ll mention again I don’t want to play zone and want us to be an in your face man team . Right now we don’t have all the pieces to play the way Autry would like.

We are giving up 75.0 points per game which is the same per game as the worst defensive Cuse team ever did in 2021-22. Even if this group isn’t good defensively they should be better than the Girard, Boeheim, Boeheim, Swider and Jesse team. I know we play faster but right now the defense is really bad.

Cuse!
 
Fair enough and I apologize for my eyes comment. I know you know hoops. I’ll mention again I don’t want to play zone and want us to be an in your face man team . Right now we don’t have all the pieces to play the way Autry would like.

We are giving up 75.0 points per game which is the same per game as the worst defensive Cuse team ever did in 2021-22. Even if this group isn’t good defensively they should be better than the Girard, Boeheim, Boeheim, Swider and Jesse team. I know we play faster but right now the defense is really bad.

Cuse!
You need do points per possession if you're going to compare prior year to this year. This team runs and plays transition ball and the last few years didn't. Maybe I'm wrong but points per possession year over year this year is much better.
 
For the season vs last 2 seasons:

Better Defensive Rating - We're 188th out of 362 currently, 2 years ago were were 323

We allow 8 3's a game vs 10 3s a game the last 2 seasons

The defense is not good. It's better than the last 2 years. Recency bias (and agenda) makes some of you think otherwise.
I mean we rolled 2 years ago with Girard, Buddy, Jimmy, Cole and Jessie.

We look like the 89 Pistons compared that group.
 
Interesting thread. Anything I would say is covered above, but the main problem I see is our guards let the opposing guards do whatever they want, most of the time. They drive past us with ease. We do little to disrupt their offense, which is the point of defense
It’s been worse the past two years, the difference is we don’t have a shot blocker behind them this year.
 
> Judah played with 4 touch fouls.
the guy who shoots 8.5 ft's a game (more than 2 + per game than #2 in the ACC 5.7 ) is called for touch fouls ? oh the injustice. either you believe he's a foul magnet or else perhaps he is creating contact and getting friendly whistles. we shoot 0ver 3 more ft's per game on avg. seems rather disproportionate wouldn't you say ?
 
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It does not help that our forwards are small and our center is a 6ft 8 forward. We can’t defend inside and get killed on the boards.

Yes, the defense on the perimeter should be better, but that is not the prime issue with this line-up.
3pt defense is definitely a prime issue. Its not THE prime issue, but this drop off in ability to defend the 3 pointer is wild. If anything it just highlights how lucky they got early in the year with teams missing wide open 3s.


Select Opp 3pt % (Wont let me post picture)
 
You need do points per possession if you're going to compare prior year to this year. This team runs and plays transition ball and the last few years didn't. Maybe I'm wrong but points per possession year over year this year is much better.
Not a perfect comparison since it is SU's possession count, but if we look at

2022-2023: 70.8 poss/game giving up 72.9 points or ~1.030/poss
2023-2024: 73.7 poss/game giving up 75.7 points or ~1.027/poss

The difference is negligible honestly, only 0.25%. Now if you look 2023-2024 vs 2021-2022, that is a sizeable difference of 2%
 
For the season vs last 2 seasons:

Better Defensive Rating - We're 188th out of 362 currently, 2 years ago were were 323

We allow 8 3's a game vs 10 3s a game the last 2 seasons

The defense is not good. It's better than the last 2 years. Recency bias (and agenda) makes some of you think otherwise.

I am not so sure I see a lot of anti-Red agenda around here. Seems like everyone wants him to be successful, and most are willing to give him a fair shot.

There is important context behind those numbers you are not acknowledging. Last year we were a horrible defensive team, but we were consistently bad from beginning to end, mostly because we played a lot of bad defenders and freshmen.

This year we started off quite well (only averaging 69 ppg allowed in the first 13 games against a tough schedule) but we've been getting worse and worse as the year goes on. Injuries (especially McLeod's) has affected this some, but doesn't account for it all. The fact that we continue to get worse defensively is a clue that the way we play has major flaws that teams are able to figure out and capitalize on.

Our best defense this year was better than our best defense last year but that all came early when nobody had video of how to play against Red's style, and I would argue were accidentally playing right into our strengths.

Our worst defense this year is just as bad as our worst defense last year, but it's coming late in the season, which to me is concerning.

I'm not ready to push the panick button, we had a lot of bad luck personnel-wise, but I think it's fair to say Red needs to rework his defense in the offseason and his ability to do so is the most important part of our future success (or lack there of) and something fans should be paying close attention to next year.
 

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