Can Someone Explain Moore's Season to Me?

[Scooch]

A is Moore.

B is Chris Bell’s freshman season.

Ah. That doesn’t fill me with confidence.

 

[malpearl31]

Ah. That doesn’t fill me with confidence.

Me neither… kinda depressing.

 

[kcsu]

I haven't been able to make any sense out of Red's substitutions. None at all. I'm a broken record on this because it is so disjointed. Moore is just one of dozens of head scratching moves Red has made this year. Some of his moves have been so crazy so odd I swear I'm watching a different game.

 

[dasher]

We did that each of the last two seasons. What does more money do if we aren’t spending it wisely? Who did we miss out on two years ago because of money? Last year besides the kid who went to UGA and wouldn’t have made a difference here?

Well, 2 years ago, we weren't active in the portal at all because we had a whole team returning. We brought JJ in and only because he was a local kid. Last year, we were not prepared at all for the portal. We grabbed some guys because we didn't know that other guys we might have got entered later. I don't believe that will happen this year. And the kid from Ga would have helped a lot here.

 

[SUFan44]

Care to share more details?

How much have we added to the $2.5 million budget we had previously? 20%? Double?

Is this coming from donors who also fund football? Or are these new sources?

Will this assurance change in a few months when the money isn't actually there?

Here’s what I can say with pretty good confidence.

Once schools opt into the House settlement/revenue sharing model (March 1), and once that settlement is approved by the federal government (April 7), schools will have up to $20.5 million to spend however they want to.

As I have mentioned before, a lot of that will go to football. But if 15% goes to MBB, then that’s another $3M to work with. There’s your “new money”.

 

[JonB]

Moore was a big time recruit, right? 247 had him as a 4-star, 10th best SG in his class, and 59th overall.

He had a bumpy start over his first 4 games. But then starting with Texas Tech he seemed to lock in. From that game through Maryland, 7 games, he hit 34 of 67 FGA (51%), 13-32 from three (41%), scored 12.4 PPG and averaged 26 minutes/game.

Then there's a week off between Maryland and Bucknell. From that game until yesterday (15 games) he's averaged 12 mins/game, shot 13-50 FGA (26%), 9-34 from three (27%) and 2.4 PPG.

And it's not like his minutes were gradually trimmed due to poor play. He went from 36 mins vs. G'town and 22 vs. Maryland, to 16 vs. Bucknell, 6 vs. FSU and 3 vs. Wake Forest. He turned from a heavy minute guy to a non-entity in 3 games.

What gives? Why was his playing time reduced so severely and so quickly? Defense? A bad attitude?

It's really perplexing. And all we get from Autry is "coach's decision".

59th plus 6th/2 equals average recruit 32.5.

High school recruiting means nothing nowadays unless you can keep them. Does anybody think that we will keep this guy or Donnie Freeman?

 

[tbonezone]

transferring to lower level programs.

they're already playing at a lower level program. so how is that worse ?

 

[Consigliere]

With kids like that you have to give some sort of consistent minutes. Let them make mistakes, pull them and discuss and get them back in. Playing 3 min and riding pine is dumb. All to get JC some min

Also to allow JJ to play off the ball where he is substantially more effective, Choppa knew coming in that he would be backing up our best player at SG. Shouldn't be a major surprise. Red has tried giving JJ extended minutes at PG and even given Moore a couple cameos there, as well as trying three guard lineups when matchups allowed. It's a major theme of the season that the player we brought in for a Symir/Howard Washington type role ended up being the best option to run the point.

 

[Consigliere]

Here’s what I can say with pretty good confidence.

Once schools opt into the House settlement/revenue sharing model (March 1), and once that settlement is approved by the federal government (April 7), schools will have up to $20.5 million to spend however they want to.

As I have mentioned before, a lot of that will go to football. But if 15% goes to MBB, then that’s another $3M to work with. There’s your “new money”.

One thing I learned recently. If a school opts to award additional scholarships as allowed by House, the first $2.5MM of that funding comes out of the revenue sharing cap leaving $18MM for direct payments. The numbers I have heard are similar to what Orange United is currently budgeting with general contributions. 75% football, 20% basketball, 5% all else. So that would be $3.6MM for basketball PLUS at least $1MM from the Vegas tournament PLUS earmarked NIL contributions from third party individuals and businesses. That would be more than double the NIL expenditures for men's hoops this year.

For reference the highest planned allotment I have seen for men's basketball is at Louisville where they are budgeting 30% for hoops.

Of course other programs will see a similar bunp, so the average payment to a scholarship player at a P4 school on a 12 man roster would be something like a half million dollars. Absurd!

 

[OttoinGrotto]

What happened to Choppa this year was a travesty. It’s Exhibit A in why Red is not a long term solution here. You don’t bench Choppa to get JC 38 mpg.

Carlos is probably going to end the season either 2nd or 3rd on the team in minutes, and that's insane.

 

[SUFan44]

One thing I learned recently. If a school opts to award additional scholarships as allowed by House, the first $2.5MM of that funding comes out of the revenue sharing cap leaving $18MM for direct payments. The numbers I have heard are similar to what Orange United is currently budgeting with general contributions. 75% football, 20% basketball, 5% all else. So that would be $3.6MM for basketball PLUS at least $1MM from the Vegas tournament PLUS earmarked NIL contributions from third party individuals and businesses. That would be more than double the NIL expenditures for men's hoops this year.

For reference the highest planned allotment I have seen for men's basketball is at Louisville where they are budgeting 30% for hoops.

Of course other programs will see a similar bunp, so the average payment to a scholarship player at a P4 school on a 12 man roster would be something like a half million dollars. Absurd!

Yes - any additional funding (whether that's scholarships, academic support, or other areas that's new money spent) can count towards that $20.5M. And yes, the cap of $2.5M.

I have heard, however, that some schools are electing to keep 85 scholarships (or 13 for MBB) and use the full $20.5M for direct payments. Some schools actually thought to utilize less scholarships, keep all their walk ons with the 105 roster limit, and save the school some dollars that way to allow the direct payments to not impact other areas.

I really don't understand how this is all going to play out - the money that is going to be flooding the market is insane, and because only the P4 schools - at least I think - will be the only ones 'fully funded', the rich will get richer and the price points will be ridiculous for top talent. I don't get it.

 

[Scooch]

One thing I learned recently. If a school opts to award additional scholarships as allowed by House, the first $2.5MM of that funding comes out of the revenue sharing cap leaving $18MM for direct payments. The numbers I have heard are similar to what Orange United is currently budgeting with general contributions. 75% football, 20% basketball, 5% all else. So that would be $3.6MM for basketball PLUS at least $1MM from the Vegas tournament PLUS earmarked NIL contributions from third party individuals and businesses. That would be more than double the NIL expenditures for men's hoops this year.

For reference the highest planned allotment I have seen for men's basketball is at Louisville where they are budgeting 30% for hoops.

Of course other programs will see a similar bunp, so the average payment to a scholarship player at a P4 school on a 12 man roster would be something like a half million dollars. Absurd!

Here's a concern... we're being assured that SU has the money to compete in the NIL market this offseason. I sure hope that assurance takes into account the massive compensation inflation we're going to see due to all of this newly available funding.

It's great that we're doubling what we had to spend last summer. But if the going rate for top talent grows by 3X, 4X or more, then we're right back to where we were.

And then we'll see the same excuses about how we can't compete because NIL.

I hate to be pessimistic, but I kinda am.

 

[SUFan44]

Here's a concern... we're being assured that SU has the money to compete in the NIL market this offseason. I sure hope that assurance takes into account the massive compensation inflation we're going to see due to all of this newly available funding.

It's great that we're doubling what we had to spend last summer. But if the going rate for top talent grows by 3X, 4X or more, then we're right back to where we were.

And then we'll see the same excuses about how we can't compete because NIL.

I hate to be pessimistic, but I kinda am.

I get that. And valid concerns.

At some point, though, it’s not about the money. It’s about the opportunity. And the ability to get exposure and play at the next level.

That part is going to be more difficult to sell than the difference between a couple hundred thousand dollars.

 

[ar inj]

Here's a concern... we're being assured that SU has the money to compete in the NIL market this offseason. I sure hope that assurance takes into account the massive compensation inflation we're going to see due to all of this newly available funding.

It's great that we're doubling what we had to spend last summer. But if the going rate for top talent grows by 3X, 4X or more, then we're right back to where we were.

And then we'll see the same excuses about how we can't compete because NIL.

I hate to be pessimistic, but I kinda am.

Your concern may be justified but your email is conflating two issues: (1) direct payments from the schools; and (2) NIL payments.

They are separate and distinct payments and both will be in play. For example, will the Big East schools decide to pay their basketball players at a rate that prevents SU or BC from competing with the Big East bball salary payments?
Second, SU will still need to compete with SEC schools and their NIL payments.

I do not have the answers just pointing out the speed bumps.

 

[Sherman20]

Here’s what I can say with pretty good confidence.

Once schools opt into the House settlement/revenue sharing model (March 1), and once that settlement is approved by the federal government (April 7), schools will have up to $20.5 million to spend however they want to.

As I have mentioned before, a lot of that will go to football. But if 15% goes to MBB, then that’s another $3M to work with. There’s your “new money”.

But then won’t other booster-rich SEC and Big10 schools simply use their collectives to outbid schools with smaller collectives and less money? The players will just be getting more overall. I don’t see how this solves the problem. Or will the NIL collectives be banned?

 

[pwong]

Your concern may be justified but your email is conflating two issues: (1) direct payments from the schools; and (2) NIL payments.

They are separate and distinct payments and both will be in play. For example, will the Big East schools decide to pay their basketball players at a rate that prevents SU or BC from competing with the Big East bball salary payments?
Second, SU will still need to compete with SEC schools and their NIL payments.

I do not have the answers just pointing out the speed bumps.

I think BE schools get significantly less TV revenue due to lack of football (like half of what the ACC gets) and in this economy, not sure if all schools in general can afford the full $20M rev share. Still think having strong NIL collectives is really important.

Rev share + NIL collectives just screams price inflation this offseason.

 

[pwong]

But then won’t othe booster-rich schools simply use their collectives to simply outbid schools with smaller collectives and less money? The players will just be getting more overall. I don’t see how this solves the problem. Or will the NIL collectives be banned?

NIL collectives won’t be banned, theres no regulations on it. It’s pretty much the same as now except players get more money from schools directly.

I guess it’s hard to tell if some school collectives will disband bc they think rev share is enough (still think you need a strong collective), but collectives get you above the sport specific rev share cap allocated by your school.

 

[Consigliere]

But then won’t other booster-rich SEC and Big10 schools simply use their collectives to simply outbid schools with smaller collectives and less money? The players will just be getting more overall. I don’t see how this solves the problem. Or will the NIL collectives be banned?

There is a provision in House that all third party NIL deals would have to be reviewed by a clearinghouse that would evaluate for fair market value. Unfortuntately this provision has been one of the holdups in final approval and may well end up being stricken when the fairness hearings are conducted in early April

 

[Consigliere]

I think BE schools get significantly less TV revenue due to lack of football (like half of what the ACC gets) and in this economy, not sure if all schools in general can afford the full $20M rev share. Still think having strong NIL collectives is really important.

Rev share + NIL collectives just screams price inflation this offseason.

Indications are that the BigEast will opt out of the settlement.

 

[Scooch]

Your concern may be justified but your email is conflating two issues: (1) direct payments from the schools; and (2) NIL payments.

They are separate and distinct payments and both will be in play. For example, will the Big East schools decide to pay their basketball players at a rate that prevents SU or BC from competing with the Big East bball salary payments?
Second, SU will still need to compete with SEC schools and their NIL payments.

I do not have the answers just pointing out the speed bumps.

I'm quite aware of the two sources of player payments. However, they're really distinctions without a difference when it comes down to how much each school can spend.

Everyone in P5 hoops has the same cap on direct payments (~$20.5M). But needless to say, there will continue to be wiiiiiide variances in what some schools can spend via collectives vs. others.

So, it's great SU will have 2X the player compensation fund than they did last summer. If other schools have 4X, and player compensation rates grow av average of 4X, we're worse off than we are now.

 

[AZOrange]

Also to allow JJ to play off the ball where he is substantially more effective, Choppa knew coming in that he would be backing up our best player at SG. Shouldn't be a major surprise. Red has tried giving JJ extended minutes at PG and even given Moore a couple cameos there, as well as trying three guard lineups when matchups allowed. It's a major theme of the season that the player we brought in for a Symir/Howard Washington type role ended up being the best option to run the point.

Says everything ya need to know about where we are as a program.

 

[AZOrange]

Carlos is probably going to end the season either 2nd or 3rd on the team in minutes, and that's insane.

It’s not when you think about what the program has become. What’s more insane is that Sadiq stayed committed and Melos kid agreed to come here.

 

[Scooch]

I get that. And valid concerns.

At some point, though, it’s not about the money. It’s about the opportunity. And the ability to get exposure and play at the next level.

That part is going to be more difficult to sell than the difference between a couple hundred thousand dollars.

We'll see. We lost Leffew because we weren't willing to match/top UGA's offer. And that differential came to ~$200K according to people here. Leffew was going to get more minutes here (I mean just look at the minutes we're giving Carlos). He was going to be a more featured part of our offense. His former coach came here. And yet he chose UGA.

Now, there were other factors. Being closer to home chief among them. But money mattered. It always matters. Particularly given that these guys all have agents. They're always going to press for taking the largest deal, because it directly impacts their own compensation.

 

[AZOrange]

He did the same stuff with Freeman at times. Most of the time, Donnie played around half the game or less. Now, he would get the ball taken away from him too much, and too much of his time was spent out by the 3 point line. But he only played 30 minutes 3 times in 14 games.

It was stupid and ridiculous

 

[RF2044]

It’s not when you think about what the program has become. What’s more insane is that Sadiq stayed committed and Melos kid agreed to come here.

Both players signed back in November, when there was still optimism about the future direction of this program and head coach, based upon last season.

That has evaporated quickly. I imagine that both players are worried now -- just as the Freeman camp is worried.