Our offensive ineptitude

[JeffCuse]

I'm seeing lots of people saying that the lack of training time, COVID opt outs, or other factors are the reason that our offense was so embarassingly pop-warner-esque today.

I'm not sure I buy this argument. First of all because all teams are dealing with many of the same issues yet manage to put out a representative performance. Frankly, it looked a whole lot like i remember it last year. Last year, I remember a whole lot of games where our defense carried the water for long stretches only to fall apart after trying to single handedly keep us in games while the offense does absolutely nothing. Our offense is unbelievably predictable, not even a bit creative. We don't use tight ends at all. We dont stretch the field at all beyond the occasional chuck downfield 3 yards out of bounds. Way too many of our pass plays are at or behind the LOS. Is Tommy incapable of throwing the ball downfield beyond the aforementioned throws OOB?

We got a new OC and for what? This? It's like they come to SU and its back to the same 5 stupid plays we always run.

I don't know what the answer is but, based on last season and the start of this one, it's seeming more and more to me that Eric Dungey was the main reason we got to 10 wins and that his success was despite the system and not because of it.

 

[Cuse'91]

Gilbert as a new OC hire is like marriage to a 1st cousin...
Honestly, what has Sherrod Johnson ever done to even be in a position to drop an easy td pass?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I'm trying not to overreact to the first game with a new OC amid a historically weird set of circumstances, but... I don't understand how we have one running play and consistently throw away downs. I wouldn't even care if we just accept that we can't run and throw the ball every down. But we don't.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Were our tight ends targeted at all (edit- yes, one of them was a quick hitter to the flat that was basically thrown before the snap, and the defender was all over him, see below)? The most unique play we ran today was when Jordan started like 20 yards behind the line at the snap. Other than that? I did not see anything.

- I saw a bunch of slow, read option half back dives.
- I saw a bunch of quick hitters that were decided on before the play even developed, some that had zero shot of success either because the defender was right there or the wide out not looking.
- I saw PLENTY of passes deep down the sideline, some that probably should have been completed, but a throw that will always be a low % one because the sideline is a secondary defender and the guy you are targeting is apparently under 170lbs now
- I saw a nice throw to the back end of the end zone that should have been a touchdown.
- I saw a couple of nice runs by Tommy where he stepped up and committed and made sure he dove past the line.
- I saw Queeley make some nice catches, seemingly becoming the "#2" guy.
- I also saw way too many roll outs that led to nothing, and lack of identifying options 2, 3, 4.
- I did not see any attempt at a screen pass to our supposed speedsters- either Jordan, or Johnson.
- I saw us in shot gun on 4th and 1, that we did not get.
- I saw us run the ball on 3rd and 13 from inside the 15, because we "needed the points" and we couldn't risk a negative play or a turnover there (interesting... we also missed “guaranteed” points on basically the same kick not long after... interesting).

Unfortunately, I did not see nearly enough out there, and too much of the same.

 

[JeffCuse]

I'm trying not to overreact to the first game with a new OC amid a historically weird set of circumstances, but... I don't understand how we have one running play and consistently throw away downs. I wouldn't even care if we just accept that we can't run and throw the ball every down. But we don't.

I mean, I am basing my opinion on last year too. Today we ran the same predictable offense as last year! Why even bring in a new OC to call this garbage? Run run stupid pass play behind the LOS, punt. Maybe chuck it into the 2nd row of the stands once in a while.

 

[dollarbill44]

I mean, I am basing my opinion on last year too. Today we ran the same predictable offense as last year! Why even bring in a new OC to call this garbage? Run run stupid pass play behind the LOS, punt. Maybe chuck it into the 2nd row of the stands once in a while.

In defense of Gilbert, I think he's going to be a good recruiter. I'm also not sure what you do offensively with an OL that can't even slow down the penetration through the middle.

 

[syracuse95]

I'm trying not to overreact to the first game with a new OC amid a historically weird set of circumstances, but... I don't understand how we have one running play and consistently throw away downs. I wouldn't even care if we just accept that we can't run and throw the ball every down. But we don't.

I really expected, with Elmore at OG, that we’d see at least a couple plays with Elmore pulling and Jordan running outside behind him. I mean, I know that’s not part of our zone read scheme, but the personnel we’ve been forced to use just kind of lends itself to that.

Nope. HB into the A gap again.

 

[kmart128]

Maybe the team should have attended practice instead of sitting out. They obviously need every practice time they can get. Maybe the offense would have a little more timing and rhythm

 

[GoSU96]

SU is not going to out talent anyone, at least not yet. The offense is predicated on timing. Timing requires practice.

Today was the most competitive reps since the wake forest game last year. No spring with the new OC, not a lot of time and reps in camp.

This was the equivalent of a spring game preparation wise.

Bunch of hysterics.

 

[FloridaFan]

SU is not going to out talent anyone, at least not yet. The offense is predicated on timing. Timing requires practice.

Today was the most competitive reps since the wake forest game last year. No spring with the new OC, not a lot of time and reps in camp.

This was the equivalent of a spring game preparation wise.

Bunch of hysterics.

The playcalling looked scrimmage level as well

 

[qdawgg]

The playcalling looked scrimmage level as well

You’re being too gracious.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

The playcalling looked scrimmage level as well

This is where I am. I can forgive a lot. But we didn't look like we were attacking on offense.

 

[GoSU96]

The playcalling looked scrimmage level as well

I wonder if the level of preparation had something to do with that?

 

[FloridaFan]

I wonder if the level of preparation had something to do with that?

They couldn’t call anything other then a HB dive or Plunge?

 

[GoSU96]

They couldn’t call anything other then a HB dive or Plunge?

The A gap dive is a core component of the offense. They are going to run it, because when it works the offense hums.

Again, listen to Babers, he's being honest, he's telling anyone who will listen that his goal is to have the team playing well by game three or four.

 

[FloridaFan]

The A gap dive is a core component of the offense. They are going to run it, because when it works the offense hums.

Again, listen to Babers, he's being honest, he's telling anyone who will listen that his goal is to have the team playing well by game three or four.

Idk if you read my thread but we ran an A gap dive probably 8 times as the first play of the drive and got about a 2 yard average out of it

 

[Chip]

This is a throwaway year and everyone needs to start treating it like that. Enjoy that you can watch any football at all. Although at points today I said I missed when sports were shut down.

Offense right now has issues everywhere. Either due to missing personnel or just general lack of talent. OL, QB, RB, WR, TE, even the OC with some head scratchers. You can't sustain a drive when every couple of plays, someone is going to make a critical mistake.

Perfect playcall for a touchdown pass? Dropped. Get a couple wide open WRs deep? Overthrow them. OL gives the QB time? The RB misses an easy block. Our QB cannot throw on the run at all, I'm not sure I've ever seen him complete a pass after moving, and unfortunately he has to move a lot. 3 man rush? 5 OL and the TE can't block them, and the TE gets a hold too. RBs trying to bounce things outside when they should just run straight ahead (Jordan's east-west was disheartening, nothing close to his north-south).

UNC played a base defense all day, and from it, they shut down the run, rushed the passer. Makes it easy if you can do that. And we're starting a fullback at guard.

We'll see how it evolves, but without a few key pieces, I wouldn't get overly upset, it's not going to be worth it.

 

[kirbivore]

This is a throwaway year and everyone needs to start treating it like that. Enjoy that you can watch any football at all. Although at points today I said I missed when sports were shut down.

Offense right now has issues everywhere. Either due to missing personnel or just general lack of talent. OL, QB, RB, WR, TE, even the OC with some head scratchers. You can't sustain a drive when every couple of plays, someone is going to make a critical mistake.

Perfect playcall for a touchdown pass? Dropped. Get a couple wide open WRs deep? Overthrow them. OL gives the QB time? The RB misses an easy block. Our QB cannot throw on the run at all, I'm not sure I've ever seen him complete a pass after moving, and unfortunately he has to move a lot. 3 man rush? 5 OL and the TE can't block them, and the TE gets a hold too. RBs trying to bounce things outside when they should just run straight ahead (Jordan's east-west was disheartening, nothing close to his north-south).

UNC played a base defense all day, and from it, they shut down the run, rushed the passer. Makes it easy if you can do that. And we're starting a fullback at guard.

We'll see how it evolves, but without a few key pieces, I wouldn't get overly upset, it's not going to be worth it.

Make some $$$ off the misery. I'll probably be making some road trips to the McDonalds parking lot in Great Bend, PA to bet against SU.

 

[orangeinohio]

The A gap dive is a core component of the offense. They are going to run it, because when it works the offense hums.

Again, listen to Babers, he's being honest, he's telling anyone who will listen that his goal is to have the team playing well by game three or four.

UNC was playing well by quarter three.

 

[Briancuse]

This is a throwaway year and everyone needs to start treating it like that. Enjoy that you can watch any football at all. Although at points today I said I missed when sports were shut down.

Offense right now has issues everywhere. Either due to missing personnel or just general lack of talent. OL, QB, RB, WR, TE, even the OC with some head scratchers. You can't sustain a drive when every couple of plays, someone is going to make a critical mistake.

Perfect playcall for a touchdown pass? Dropped. Get a couple wide open WRs deep? Overthrow them. OL gives the QB time? The RB misses an easy block. Our QB cannot throw on the run at all, I'm not sure I've ever seen him complete a pass after moving, and unfortunately he has to move a lot. 3 man rush? 5 OL and the TE can't block them, and the TE gets a hold too. RBs trying to bounce things outside when they should just run straight ahead (Jordan's east-west was disheartening, nothing close to his north-south).

UNC played a base defense all day, and from it, they shut down the run, rushed the passer. Makes it easy if you can do that. And we're starting a fullback at guard.

We'll see how it evolves, but without a few key pieces, I wouldn't get overly upset, it's not going to be worth it.

The season might very well get cancelled but while they are on the field. Is no one allowed to be judged?

 

[Newhouser]

It's year 5. The "we will be humming by week 3" lines are getting tired. Scheme and play call to your personnel.

 

[We Are Syracuse]

I'm seeing lots of people saying that the lack of training time, COVID opt outs, or other factors are the reason that our offense was so embarassingly pop-warner-esque today.

I'm not sure I buy this argument. First of all because all teams are dealing with many of the same issues yet manage to put out a representative performance. Frankly, it looked a whole lot like i remember it last year. Last year, I remember a whole lot of games where our defense carried the water for long stretches only to fall apart after trying to single handedly keep us in games while the offense does absolutely nothing. Our offense is unbelievably predictable, not even a bit creative. We don't use tight ends at all. We dont stretch the field at all beyond the occasional chuck downfield 3 yards out of bounds. Way too many of our pass plays are at or behind the LOS. Is Tommy incapable of throwing the ball downfield beyond the aforementioned throws OOB?

We got a new OC and for what? This? It's like they come to SU and its back to the same 5 stupid plays we always run.

I don't know what the answer is but, based on last season and the start of this one, it's seeming more and more to me that Eric Dungey was the main reason we got to 10 wins and that his success was despite the system and not because of it.

Yep - Our run scheme is laughable. I was hoping to get an OC who gets under center some and incorporates some wide zone/bootlegs... Running some wide zone/play action counters would help dumb it down for DeVito. Get the hook curl LB'ers to bite down or flow to the side of the wide zone play action, then have crossers going the opposite way at all three levels. The key to offense at any level is having run/pass plays out of the same package where the offense can take advantage of an effective play action to make certain defenders useless (especially if you have less talent). Cuse rarely runs play action and when they do, its a cheap fake that doesn't create any misdirection flow. It's all around poor scheming... If you want to sit in shotgun all game that's fine. But consider doing something like this to create flow:
An advantage you can create for the offensive line is that when you run wide zone, the defensive line isn't sure what direction the offense is going (while the offensive line obviously does). This creates an advantageous first step for the OLINE in the run game.

 

[Chip]

The season might very well get cancelled but while they are on the field. Is no one allowed to be judged?

Of course you can judge. But nothing about our prep was normal, losing 2 RBs and having no guards isn't normal. There's a new OC, they tend to take longer than DCs to get up and running. And not having Chris Bleich hurts and the corrupt NC2A can abcdef right off for that crime.

 

[AAM62]

I would love a video with a former player breaking down the OL. How bad is tisdale and veterrello? All things considered, how did rhino do? Is Servais just not very good and we hype him?

 

[Chip]

Make some $$$ off the misery. I'll probably be making some road trips to the McDonalds parking lot in Great Bend, PA to bet against SU.

I can't believe we didn't cover today, being down by 4 at the end of the 3rd quarter (although they were on the inch line). Just one more kick to the groin.

Smyzt missing that chip shot was just the icing on today's cake.