Out of state kids are easier than in state an example

[kcsu]

Im 100% convinced that today more than ever most kids going to college look out of state.

My daughter who is a HS Senior is a talented Vball player and has exceptional grades. She has been offered by Denver, CU, and CSU. All great and beautiful schools. Her choice , Loyola of Chicago. Second place was Oregon. She decided that she wanted to remain in a Christian setting but most importantly she wanted to experience something different. I think that the same holds true for so many kids today so im actually surprised when Syracuse lands a top NY prospect. Going forward i believe we are going to see our team made up of a much broader base one that might include a NY kid or two a year but with a much wider base.

 

[OttoForLife]

100% agree. Most people I knew/know wanted a new experience when picking a college (regardless if the driving factors were athletic or academic). Never understand why people think the in-state thing cares to kids.

 

[TheCusian]

I think recruits in state are more susceptible to the Syracuse gloom™ that seems to follow our fanbase around.

Kids from out of state see things more clearly: ACC team, dome, great history, recent downswing but the climb back isn't that much of a hill to climb.

 

[money3189]

Keep in mind of how technology (skyping, twitter etc...) that allow kids to see the opportunities and experiences outside of their everyday life. Things change when you expose them to different things other than the way they saw things growing up. Also cell phones, videos, face book etc.. allows these kids to go to a school across the county and still not miss out on whats going on back at home.

 

[CusefanATL]

Im 100% convinced that today more than ever most kids going to college look out of state.

My daughter who is a HS Senior is a talented Vball player and has exceptional grades. She has been offered by Denver, CU, and CSU. All great and beautiful schools. Her choice , Loyola of Chicago. Second place was Oregon. She decided that she wanted to remain in a Christian setting but most importantly she wanted to experience something different. I think that the same holds true for so many kids today so im actually surprised when Syracuse lands a top NY prospect. Going forward i believe we are going to see our team made up of a much broader base one that might include a NY kid or two a year but with a much wider base.

This is a classic example of justification.

No offense - but if that QB committed to Cuse, it would literally be the exact opposite convo. And living in GA - UGA gets just about any GA kid they want. Sure there is a 1 off - but it is FAR AND AWAY the exception and not the rule.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

This is a classic example of justification.

No offense - but if that QB committed to Cuse, it would literally be the exact opposite convo. And living in GA - UGA gets just about any GA kid they want. Sure there is a 1 off - but it is FAR AND AWAY the exception and not the rule.

That's the south, Midwest mind set. State U is the apex. The west and northeast, not so much.

 

[Sudano]

Im 100% convinced that today more than ever most kids going to college look out of state.

My daughter who is a HS Senior is a talented Vball player and has exceptional grades. She has been offered by Denver, CU, and CSU. All great and beautiful schools. Her choice , Loyola of Chicago. Second place was Oregon. She decided that she wanted to remain in a Christian setting but most importantly she wanted to experience something different. I think that the same holds true for so many kids today so im actually surprised when Syracuse lands a top NY prospect. Going forward i believe we are going to see our team made up of a much broader base one that might include a NY kid or two a year but with a much wider base.

I just hope this isn't a post to rationalize losing top football prospects from NYS as a thing we need to accept. Afterall what one female volleyball player with outstanding grades does has nothing to do with successfully recruiting top male football players.I think you posted this in other threads. Facts prove otherwise, for regular students at least.
Most Students Stay Close to Home
https://ink.niche.com/going-away-college-data-dive-350000-hs-grads/#/

There are statistics that may lean your way in the sense that 'high achieving' academic students that achieve over 2100 SAT leave state 56% while students from 1200-1800 leave between 24%-40%. So in theory a higher achieving athlete with many options would logically have many out of state opportunities. That in an of itself has no conclusive factors as to how many major college football prospects leave state. For me through deductive reasoning its really a 50-50 proposition. If we stay bad we're getting significantly less than 50% of top players and if we get good I think we'll retain a higher percentage than 50% of NYS top recruits.

 

[CusefanATL]

I just hope this isn't a post to rationalize losing top football prospects from NYS as a thing we need to accept. Afterall what one female volleyball player with outstanding grades does has nothing to do with successfully recruiting top male football players.I think you posted this in other threads. Facts prove otherwise, for regular students at least.
Most Students Stay Close to Home
https://ink.niche.com/going-away-college-data-dive-350000-hs-grads/#/

There are statistics that may lean your way in the sense that 'high achieving' academic students that achieve over 2100 SAT leave state 56% while students from 1200-1800 leave between 24%-40%. So in theory a higher achieving athlete with many options would logically have many out of state opportunities. That in an of itself has no conclusive factors as to how many major college football prospects leave state. For me through deductive reasoning its really a 50-50 proposition. If we stay bad we're getting significantly less than 50% of top players and if we get good I think we'll retain a higher percentage than 50% of NYS top recruits.

I dont think those stats lean his way.

The higher achieving kids go to higher achieving schools meaning they probably have to travel farther to find a good school that fits their needs. If you have less options, what is the point of moving? May as well go to CC or state college.

Cuse needs to find a way to become a powerhouse and force the kids to make a real decision. But losing the last 20 big name NY kids is a fault of Cuse's and not some national epidemic where younger kids want to flock.

To Capt. Tuttle 's point though - there arent many power houses out side of the midwest and south. Its not the mindset as much as it is the powerhouse. USC did just fine in CA in their heyday. I lived in ATL and went to SU. I had tons of high achieving friends that went to Harvard, Stanford, UNC, Duke, etc... but my 5 star top 10 recruit buddy went to UGA - and it was never really a question.

 

[kcsu]

This is a classic example of justification.

No offense - but if that QB committed to Cuse, it would literally be the exact opposite convo. And living in GA - UGA gets just about any GA kid they want. Sure there is a 1 off - but it is FAR AND AWAY the exception and not the rule.

No its not it seems to be a fact the last 5 years or so. Look at our roster it is changing and really changed when we joined the ACC. Every single game is available either on TV or on-line. Being away from home doesnt mean that your friends and family cant watch you. Social media makes staying in touch very easy. Heck i know some kids that text from the second floor of their home to reach a sibling or parent. The internet and todays devices make the world much smaller. This is actually a great thing for Syracuse. Given the weak talent in NY we are going to benefit from this much more than others. Add in the ACC and the entire eastern seaboard is open to us.

 

[TheCusian]

If we want to keep in-state talent, we need W's. That's it. End of the conversation.

And even then we won't get them all.

 

[Sudano]

I dont think those stats lean his way.

The higher achieving kids go to higher achieving schools meaning they probably have to travel farther to find a good school that fits their needs. If you have less options, what is the point of moving? May as well go to CC or state college.

I think my reasoning was that higher achieving academic students have more options far from home to meet those academic standards, similar to high level football recruits. Supply and demand. How many P5 schools are in each state? 1 or 2. How many top academic schools are in each state? 1 or 2. We want to successfully recruit players with many other top options. Not a player with limited options for P5 offers. I don't want to be bad forever.

 

[Sudano]

No its not it seems to be a fact the last 5 years or so. Look at our roster it is changing and really changed when we joined the ACC.

You know you're trying to justify our roster makeup when we are pretty bad. To get good and stay there top instate recruits will need to sign with SU.

 

[SUfaninAZ]

Growing up 30 minutes from the dome I still wanted out. Hence I left when I just turned 22 and never returned. I would have loved to have gone to ASU. Instead it was OSU... Oswego State University.

 

[kcsu]

You know you're trying to justify our roster makeup when we are pretty bad. To get good and stay there top instate recruits will need to sign with SU.

I dont agree at all. There are not enough good enough players in the state. To be good and stay on top we need to be in position to recruit on a regional basis basically from New England down to Florida as well as IL, OH, Michigan

 

[SUfaninAZ]

Get them g

I dont agree at all. There are not enough good enough players in the state. To be good and stay on top we need to be in position to recruit on a regional basis basically from New England down to Florida as well as IL, OH, Michigan

Get them from wherever... It honestly doesn't matter personally to me as long as we win.

 

[Sudano]

I dont agree at all. There are not enough good enough players in the state. To be good and stay on top we need to be in position to recruit on a regional basis basically from New England down to Florida as well as IL, OH, Michigan

There are not enough good players from NY to recruit them at all? Whatever the amount is we should be able to sign them. I don't understand the concept that to become a really good team (at least a perennial 8-4 team) we will be able to predominately out recruit the level of athlete from those states and top colleges but then not be able to recruit 5-6 of the top 8-10 from NYS. It doesn't hold any logical reasoning for me. The highest percentage of players from a top college football team should be the state they are in and the immediate connecting states.
If we can't keep top recruits home what logical right would we be able to recruit top players from IL, OH, or Michigan. Florida because of supply and demand is a rare exception. Most top players from MI are going to UM, Mich. St. Notre Dame and Ohio St. We don't want to out recruit Eastern, Western, Central Michigan for players. That won't get us where we want to be.

 

[Sudano]

Get them g

Get them from wherever... It honestly doesn't matter personally to me as long as we win.

We should go to Oregon, North Dakota, and Arizona to recruit.
Of course it matters where we emphasize our recruiting efforts. We're in New York, not Idaho.

 

[Sudano]

Growing up 30 minutes from the dome I still wanted out. Hence I left when I just turned 22 and never returned. I would have loved to have gone to ASU. Instead it was OSU... Oswego State University.

What position did you play?

 

[kcsu]

There are not enough good players from NY to recruit them at all? Whatever the amount is we should be able to sign them. I don't understand the concept that to become a really good team (at least a perennial 8-4 team) we will be able to predominately out recruit the level of athlete from those states and top colleges but then not be able to recruit 5-6 of the top 8-10 from NYS. It doesn't hold any logical reasoning for me. The highest percentage of players from a top college football team should be the state they are in and the immediate connecting states.
If we can't keep top recruits home what logical right would we be able to recruit top players from IL, OH, or Michigan. Florida because of supply and demand is a rare exception. Most top players from MI are going to UM, Mich. St. Notre Dame and Ohio St. We don't want to out recruit Eastern, Western, Central Michigan for players. That won't get us where we want to be.

Name one year during our hey days that we kept the top NYC kids home

 

[CusefanATL]

No its not it seems to be a fact the last 5 years or so. Look at our roster it is changing and really changed when we joined the ACC. Every single game is available either on TV or on-line. Being away from home doesnt mean that your friends and family cant watch you. Social media makes staying in touch very easy. Heck i know some kids that text from the second floor of their home to reach a sibling or parent. The internet and todays devices make the world much smaller. This is actually a great thing for Syracuse. Given the weak talent in NY we are going to benefit from this much more than others. Add in the ACC and the entire eastern seaboard is open to us.

But the timing of your post was right after yet another big name NY'er didnt choose Syracuse. So it is rationalizing why we keep losing all of the big talent. But at the same time, you are right that NY talent is weaker than other states and just building the wall around NY isn't going to improve us enough.

AND... we still haven't reeled in a big name in like 10+ years from anywhere, let alone NY.

 

[TheCusian]

There are not enough good players from NY to recruit them at all? Whatever the amount is we should be able to sign them. I don't understand the concept that to become a really good team (at least a perennial 8-4 team) we will be able to predominately out recruit the level of athlete from those states and top colleges but then not be able to recruit 5-6 of the top 8-10 from NYS. It doesn't hold any logical reasoning for me. The highest percentage of players from a top college football team should be the state they are in and the immediate connecting states. If we can't keep top recruits home what logical right would we be able to recruit top players from IL, OH, or Michigan. Florida because of supply and demand is a rare exception. Most top players from MI are going to UM, Mich. St. Notre Dame and Ohio St. We don't want to out recruit Eastern, Western, Central Michigan for players. That won't get us where we want to be.

1. We need to get kids from NY that are good enough to compete in the ACC.

2. That number may or may not be 8-10 kids. It probably is closer to 2-4. Maybe.

3. "Invisible line" state recruiting is dumb. Give me 12-15 kids in a 4-6 hour radius. And then fill with kids who are near airports that offer direct routes to SYR (Tampa, cough).

 

[PhatOrange]

I think recruits in state are more susceptible to the Syracuse gloom™ that seems to follow our fanbase around.

Kids from out of state see things more clearly: ACC team, dome, great history, recent downswing but the climb back isn't that much of a hill to climb.

Yeah but those kids might want to get out of their own states.

 

[PhatOrange]

I agree. I'm encouraging my own kids to go to school out of state athletes or not. I'd do it even if coveted by Syracuse. It's a big world.

 

[Statesman1]

1. We need to get kids from NY that are good enough to compete in the ACC.

2. That number may or may not be 8-10 kids. It probably is closer to 2-4. Maybe.

3. "Invisible line" state recruiting is dumb. Give me 12-15 kids in a 4-6 hour radius. And then fill with kids who are near airports that offer direct routes to SYR (Tampa, cough).

2-4 a year? The facts don't bear that out. A cursory search of the last three years shows 12 of the top 15 players in NY went to P5 schools in the class of '16, 10 of the top 15 in '15, 11 of the top 15 in '14 etc... We routinely only land a handful of these kids with the best getting plucked away to some of the factories but we lose many to BC or Pitt. I'd be thrilled if we could land 1/2 of the top P5 NYS recruits each year- it would certainly be a major improvement and set a solid foundation. Add in the 4-6 hour radius and we would have more than a solid foundation to sprinkle in from our traditional recruiting grounds in Florida and the midwest. Our failure to keep in state talent home along with the 4-6 hour radius has been our death knell. People get too caught up in winning the recruiting battle in some vague larger sense vs winning enough solid recruits to build a competitive team.

 

[TheCusian]

2-4 a year? The facts don't bear that out. A cursory search of the last three years shows 12 of the top 15 players in NY went to P5 schools in the class of '16, 10 of the top 15 in '15, 11 of the top 15 in '14 etc... We routinely only land a handful of these kids with the best getting plucked away to some of the factories but we lose many to BC or Pitt. I'd be thrilled if we could land 1/2 of the top P5 NYS recruits each year- it would certainly be a major improvement and set a solid foundation. Add in the 4-6 hour radius and we would have more than a solid foundation to sprinkle in from our traditional recruiting grounds in Florida and the midwest. Our failure to keep in state talent home along with the 4-6 hour radius has been our death knell. People get too caught up in winning the recruiting battle in some vague larger sense vs winning enough solid recruits to build a competitive team.

This is a perfect example of "invisible state line" recruiting. 2-4 Upstate kids a year. Once you include downstate, you might as well throw in CT, eastern PA, MASS, etc. We don't need NYS kids that don't fit. We need kids within 4-6 hours that can compete in the ACC and fit Babers system. Are their enough within NYS that fit that criteria? Fit over geography.