Personnel changes on the OL

[sufandu]

He's a QB playing TE. Nothing happened, he's not a fit.

Last year (and this year too) I heard he was a TE playing QB.

 

[sufandu]

While agree 1000% with HS recruits, Portal recruits have added a Free Agent wrinkle to CFB that never existed before. It is somewhat different.

I still don't think they look at a guy getting replaced as reason to not got somewhere. They assume they're better and will play. It's more attractive to play for a winning team. That and money are what matter most. If a better option is available at any position, you play him to have a better chance to win.

 

[Dr. Bill]

I don't think we necessarily think we know more than the coaches, but coaches DO make mistakes (4th and 9). And there have been times fans have seen things that seemed obvious that coaches missed. In 2020 how did coaches go all preseason thinking Sean Tucker was the 4th best RB on the team? It took one game for us to see he had tools we hadn't seen at SU in more than a decade.

OK, I hear you...but getting back to that 4th and 9! Everyone keeps saying...they should have doubled Stanford's "all Pro" wideout on that play. Easy to say, but no one who I have posed this question to, seems to want to answer it: Where was this mythical "Double Team" supposed to come from? A safety "over the top" coming from the inside, would not have gotten to that ball! You would have needed a trailing defender, who was close enough to the receiver to defend the outside , back shoulder throw! It easy to look at a play after the fact and talk about what you should have done. Perfect call, perfect throw beat our defense! I think a better Monday Morning QB suggestion would have been more pressure on the QB so he maybe doesn't have time to make a perfect throw!

 

[IthacaMatt]

How about we replace the OL coach with this guy since he's doing just some commentating right now for ESPN -

Yeah, I was kind of excited when I heard he was a possibility shortly after Fran was hired. Like P&D, an outstanding offensive line coach.

 

[sufandu]

OK, I hear you...but getting back to that 4th and 9! Everyone keeps saying...they should have doubled Stanford's "all Pro" wideout on that play. Easy to say, but no one who I have posed this question to, seems to want to answer it: Where was this mythical "Double Team" supposed to come from? A safety "over the top" coming from the inside, would not have gotten to that ball! You would have needed a trailing defender, who was close enough to the receiver to defend the outside , back shoulder throw! It easy to look at a play after the fact and talk about what you should have done. Perfect call, perfect throw beat our defense! I think a better Monday Morning QB suggestion would have been more pressure on the QB so he maybe doesn't have time to make a perfect throw!

Ok, I'll answer. You give over the top help from a safety so the CB knows he's not on an island and can take anything underneath without worrying about getting beat deep. He can also possibly take a look in the backfield at the QB so he can see the throw coming. And/or as other people have already said and you mentioned above, you send more guys on the pass rush to hurry the throw so he can't put it right where his guy can get it. We had successfully hurried him on earlier downs. The combination of single coverage with no over the top help and a soft pass rush was baffling.

People questioned the call before the ball was snapped as soon as they saw how we were lined up. Ware called it from the booth, I said it in my living room, and I believe other people when they said they saw it.

 

[upperdeck]

Unless we played cover 3 The safety is going to have a hard time helping on a 10 yd pass to the sideline.

Much like safeties really dont do much to stop good throws on the corner fade in the end zones.

now we could have played some other variation of like a quarters coverage with the corners off and rushed 5 and they hoped to make a tackle

 

[sufandu]

Unless we played cover 3 The safety is going to have a hard time helping on a 10 yd pass to the sideline.

Much like safeties really dont do much to stop good throws on the corner fade in the end zones.

now we could have played some other variation of like a quarters coverage with the corners off and rushed 5 and they hoped to make a tackle

He doesn't have to help on a 10 yard pass to the sideline. His presence allows the corner to worry less about getting beat over the top and toward the middle of the field so he can take the sideline. If that play was so indefensible, offenses would run it constantly. The defense had the advantage because they knew the offense had only 1 down to get 9 yards. And, if I'm remembering it correctly, the throw wasn't a back shoulder laser. It was kind of a lob that the WR caught while falling down.

 

[tep624]

He doesn't have to help on a 10 yard pass to the sideline. His presence allows the corner to worry less about getting beat over the top and toward the middle of the field so he can take the sideline. If that play was so indefensible, offenses would run it constantly. The defense had the advantage because they knew the offense had only 1 down to get 9 yards. And, if I'm remembering it correctly, the throw wasn't a back shoulder laser. It was kind of a lob that the WR caught while falling down.

If you watch the play again, you’ll see Barron start to creep in as the play is called, then as Daniels drops back, start to creep back and look over at Elic A. Nothing is happening in front of him. Then for whatever reason he just stops cold and doesn’t start moving again until the ball is in the air and it’s way too late. Had he broke over when he started to move backwards we wouldn’t be having this conversation now. I’m still unsure what his assignment was, but with Elic A being the only guy on his side of the field and Daniels having tunnel vision there, I’d expect him to adjust to that.

 

[PhatOrange]

If you watch the play again, you’ll see Barron start to creep in as the play is called, then as Daniels drops back, start to creep back and look over at Elic A. Nothing is happening in front of him. Then for whatever reason he just stops cold and doesn’t start moving again until the ball is in the air and it’s way too late. Had he broke over when he started to move backwards we wouldn’t be having this conversation now. I’m still unsure what his assignment was, but with Elic A being the only guy on his side of the field and Daniels having tunnel vision there, I’d expect him to adjust to that.

It’s been mentioned before but he might be spying Daniels and anything underneath. We seemed to be playing the sticks and conceding the deeper ball - cause the other LB did the same thing, in that one and a half second, Barron breaks when he sees nothing underneath and realizes where the ball is going. Who knows. I’m just furious we didn’t blitz.

 

[upperdeck]

He doesn't have to help on a 10 yard pass to the sideline. His presence allows the corner to worry less about getting beat over the top and toward the middle of the field so he can take the sideline. If that play was so indefensible, offenses would run it constantly. The defense had the advantage because they knew the offense had only 1 down to get 9 yards. And, if I'm remembering it correctly, the throw wasn't a back shoulder laser. It was kind of a lob that the WR caught while falling down.

They dont it run because its a hard pass to complete. Safety help on 10 yd pass plays doesnt happen.
Now do you think the DB blew his coverage because he didnt have safety help?
You either play soft or you play press.

I was hoping we sat at the 10yd spot and make them decide to throw short and break a tackle or take it longer in which case their would be safety help

and who knows what the split RB and motion did to the coverage

 

[sufandu]

They dont it run because its a hard pass to complete. Safety help on 10 yd pass plays doesnt happen.
Now do you think the DB blew his coverage because he didnt have safety help?
You either play soft or you play press.

I was hoping we sat at the 10yd spot and make them decide to throw short and break a tackle or take it longer in which case their would be safety help

and who knows what the split RB and motion did to the coverage

I think the DB was watching the WR and had no idea where the ball was because he knew he didn't have help behind him and didn't want the receiver to run by him. He didn't know it was going to be a 10 yard pass play. It could've been a 15 yard play. It could've been a slant. Since he was one-on-one he had to stick to the WR regardless of where he went and couldn't find the ball. Maybe not finding the ball was on the DB. Maybe he needs to know when to turn and look. I don't know. To me it just doesn't make sense to leave a guy on an island with a WR that everyone knows is the other team's best player unless he is a lock down corner.

 

[bnoro]

600. The 60 approve and finalize the work.

"PFF employs over 600 full or part-time analysts, but less than 10% of analysts are trained to the level that they can grade plays. Only the top two to three percent of analysts are on the team of “senior analysts” in charge of FINALIZING each grade after review."

What you sent says that 60 analysts grade, and 12-15 of them finalize each grade.

 

[OrangeAl]

I think the DB was watching the WR and had no idea where the ball was because he knew he didn't have help behind him and didn't want the receiver to run by him. He didn't know it was going to be a 10 yard pass play. It could've been a 15 yard play. It could've been a slant. Since he was one-on-one he had to stick to the WR regardless of where he went and couldn't find the ball. Maybe not finding the ball was on the DB. Maybe he needs to know when to turn and look. I don't know. To me it just doesn't make sense to leave a guy on an island with a WR that everyone knows is the other team's best player unless he is a lock down corner.

Gotta wonder what our best corner, Marcellus Barnes, would have done if he were available.

 

[upperdeck]

the grades come out pretty fast.

If you just ball park numbers 75 games 150 plays 22 players thats 250,000 to review.

If you do any kind of real review of any single player, especially in the oline it takes a bit of time

Each person would have to review 4-5000 plays. if you do that and each one takes a min thats 68 hrs.

So how are they getting these numbers done in a a couple days?

if you take 10 secs thats still a day or 2 and that excludes the time to get an single piece of film, queue it, and grade the player.

 

[shu 49]

They make it sound so easy.

Oline play is hard to understand. When a tackle gets beat thats pretty easy. But when teams stunt and guys get handed off who knows who is breaking down. One guys mistake can make the oline 2 guys away look bad.

the worst part I see is the TEs blocking air way too often. on several plays last week both of them missed guys.

I seen it clear as day. As soon as Mang and Villari go on field there is 7-8 in box. They cant wiff like they did. kills me

 

[Cuseregular]

Okay, then how did he lose his job to an FCS transfer?

NIL crap would be my guess too

 

[orangezen]

I wonder if the “yips” so to speak come from the difference in coaching styles. Dino would encourage and be consoling when a mistake was made . Fran would chew them out forcefully. I think that’s was OGs issue in Stanford game after his punt blunder. He didn’t seem the same. Some can adjust to being chewed out some don’t.

 

[shu 49]

OK, I hear you...but getting back to that 4th and 9! Everyone keeps saying...they should have doubled Stanford's "all Pro" wideout on that play. Easy to say, but no one who I have posed this question to, seems to want to answer it: Where was this mythical "Double Team" supposed to come from? A safety "over the top" coming from the inside, would not have gotten to that ball! You would have needed a trailing defender, who was close enough to the receiver to defend the outside , back shoulder throw! It easy to look at a play after the fact and talk about what you should have done. Perfect call, perfect throw beat our defense! I think a better Monday Morning QB suggestion would have been more pressure on the QB so he maybe doesn't have time to make a perfect throw!

I woulda definetly jammed him at line with Barron and then let lewis one on one or keep Barron underneath and lewis over top.

 

[Cuseregular]

No I deleted it


Also, Enrique, who literally didn’t have a single sack all season credited to him.

You want game proof, that’s 13 games last season that he personally didn’t give up a sack for.

We played far better competition last year.

There’s a reason he’s been subbed in multiple times this season for Spoon.


Personally I think you take Washington and bench him. You move spoon to his natural position which is RT.

You take Cruz and put him at LT.

I’m not sure it can get any worse than what it is currently.

Saying comments about “he’s just a board favorite” or whatever is a bit ridiculous. Yes he’s a board favorite. But he’s also the only other OL that has come off the bench and played meaningful minutes this season and that says something right there

afluckingmen! Great post

 

[Cuseregular]

Pretty creative stat keeping. You want proof? Watch #57 where I have it cued.


There's also a whiff at 7:35 that would have been a sack if Petry hadn't screwed up worse.

I got nothing against Cruz. I also don't see why anyone thinks he's the answer.

just so you know, having played the OL positions, been in the game forever, that sack you highlighted is NOT on the OT when you're grading the film as a coach. So that is a poor example.

As anytime the qb goes outside of the box for whatever reason putting himself in harms way to try and make a play, that changes the dynamics of the blocking scheme and in that scenario Cruz would'nt be "credited" with giving up that sack.

As others have said it's been bad enough for all three games now, HORRIBLY bad last game that its time to shake things up with a established player who has been shown to be competent and in some respects better in what is a close competition with clearly no superior player.

And this has zero, zip, nada, nothing to do with whether he ever "visited a tailgate". Which he did not ever do btw.

Rather these takes have everything to do with someone who has played the position, assessed the position and performances and even had met multiple multiple times with the kid and gone over with him how he DOES also need to increase HIS foot speed and mobility and gone over ways to do it as the essential thing to improve to maybe have a chance to get to the next level one day.

So then comparing all the factors of the players involved seeing whom can do what best, then that assessment has become obvious. He is no worse and is even better in some respects. The guys in front of him are failing. If nothing else you shake things up for intraposition competition and see how things work out.

 

[JRHEETER]

just so you know, having played the position, been in the game forever, that sack you highlighted is NOT on the OT when you're grading the film as a coach. Anytime the qb goes outside of the box for whatever reason putting himself in harms way changes the dynamics of the blocking scheme and in that scenario Cruz would'nt be "credited" with giving up that sack.

As others have said it's been bad enough for all three games now, HORRIBLY bad last game that its time to shake thing up with a established player who has been shown to be competent and even better. And this has zero, zip, nada, nothing to do with whether he ever "visited a tailgate". Which he did not ever do btw.

Rather these takes have everything to do with someone who has played the position, assessed the position and performances and even met multiple multiple times with the kid and gone over with him how he also needs to increase his foot speed and mobility and gone over ways to do it as the essential thing to improve to maybe have a chance to get to the next level one day.

So then comparing all the factors of the players involved seeing whom can do what best the assessment has become obvious. He is no worse and is even better in some respects. The guys in front of him are failing. If nothing else you shake things up for intraposition competition and see how things work out.

Exactly, and I said before, and the conversation was with you and I that we felt Enrique was vulnerable and should lose the starting spot based on what we were seeing in the spring etc.

However, what we are seeing on the field is dramatically different.

It also doesn’t hurt that the times that Cruz has come in this season the OL has played markedly better.

I think the biggest issue comes from Spoon always playing RT and now was switched to LT.

Enrique has always played LT.

Sit Savion and try spoon out at RT and give Cruz LT

It ain’t going to be worse. And if it is, you go back to what you had before.

If Washington can’t handle being benched, tell him to take some tips from Enrique who has taken being benched REMARKABLY well and has used it as motivation to be better.

 

[Cuseregular]

Exactly, and I said before, and the conversation was with you and I that we felt Enrique was vulnerable and should lose the starting spot based on what we were seeing in the spring etc.

However, what we are seeing on the field is dramatically different.

It also doesn’t hurt that the times that Cruz has come in this season the OL has played markedly better.

I think the biggest issue comes from Spoon always playing RT and now was switched to LT.

Enrique has always played LT.

Sit Savion and try spoon out at RT and give Cruz LT

It ain’t going to be worse. And if it is, you go back to what you had before.

If Washington can’t handle being benched, tell him to take some tips from Enrique who has taken being benched REMARKABLY well and has used it as motivation to be better.

Amen brother exactly. And yep remember we looked at each other in the spring game after he gave up that dynamic sack to King Joseph Edwards, and the fumble and what not, and we said, oh boy, the position competition is gonna be wide-open.

As it should be, so perhaps in preseason camp, the other guys did do better, it’s not translating to game day so, yeah, it’s time to shake things up. If we don’t see that we have a coaching concern

 

[bigmike]

Feels like an “Ex Cathedra” last few posts.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Enrique has always played LT.

Sit Savion and try spoon out at RT and give Cruz LT

It makes too much sense.

 

[tep624]

Gotta wonder what our best corner, Marcellus Barnes, would have done if he were available.

I think Lewis played him on a couple of the pivotal plays really as well as you could without doubling him. You're talking about a 1st/2nd round WR in Elic A. He's that good.