Class of 2018 - PF/C Valdir Manuel (NJ) Flipped from Seton Hall to St Josephs to JUCO to St Johns to ... | Page 5 | Syracusefan.com

Class of 2018 PF/C Valdir Manuel (NJ) Flipped from Seton Hall to St Josephs to JUCO to St Johns to ...

iommi said:
I watched the whole Union County title game that aired today between The Patrick School and Roselle Catholic (with '19 Cuse target Kahlil Whitney and Naz Reid). I was impressed with Manuel, Whitney (and Reid) for different reasons. I don't have time to do a writeup and am gonna be very busy this coming week but when I have time, I'm gonna write something up in detail.

Quick thoughts on Manuel: willing and effective passer, not a big time athlete, good length but not a defensive presence. Good post-up skills, can shoot well for a big kid (made 3 3-pointers, I think). He really knows how to make himself available for the ball in the post and can step out and shoot (though he needs room). Can handle the ball too but it's not something you're going to want him to do. Still, he can do so and did several times.
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Good info, iommi. Just reading this, it kind of sounds like Taurean Thompson, no?
 
jdubs30 said:
Good info, iommi. Just reading this, it kind of sounds like Taurean Thompson, no?
Expand...

Nah. He moved and played defense. I just don't think he's much of a shot blocker, despite his length.
 
iommi said:
Have you seen the footage a few weeks ago of Anderson Silva dancing in drag? Not sure we want that.
Expand...
I actually don't follow UFC that closely, although I saw John Jones fight live against machida in Toronto. It was crazy. But back to your post ... agree that's the last thing we need. My point was that we need a big-boy inside -- our rail thin bigs are getting beat up.
 
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reedny said:
I actually don't follow UFC that closely .. I just know his name and thought the analogy was apt. I did see John Jones fight live once though -- against machida in Toronto. It was crazy. But back to your post ... agree that's the last thing we need. My point was that we need some beef down low in the worst way. Our bigs are playing as well as they can .. but they're rail thin.
Expand...

I got ya. It's a bad analogy though. Anderson Silva is thin and has been on a losing streak, plus he popped twice for PED's. He was in the argument for best pound-for-pound but that was not recently.
 
iommi said:
I got ya. It's a bad analogy though. Anderson Silva is thin and has been on a losing streak, plus he popped twice for PED's. He was in the argument for best pound-for-pound but that was not recently.
Expand...
I should restrict my analogies to sports I follow more closely [add: Bones Jones has had his troubles with PED's, too]
 
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Okay, might as well write this up while I have a chance.

The game I watched was for the Union County Championship between The Patrick School and Roselle Catholic. It was held on 2/24 at Kean University.

Anyway, both teams have a ton of talent.

I charted the game but won't type it up, play for play. This will be a very loose, informal writeup. Not gonna worry too much about any sort of structure here. I'm also going to talk about RC's Kahlil Whitney, since he's a top SU target in 2019.

First to Manuel... I don't know if it was accurate but the color commentator referred to Manuel as 6'8". I've seen him usually listed at 6'9", sometimes 6'10". He looked about 6'9" with long arms.

Manuel started slow, he missed a jump hook, then badly missed a 3 from straight ahead. One of my notes said, "player waltzed through lane, Manuel didn't step in." As I've said, he's not a great defender but not terrible either. On that play, he was but usually I didn't notice him on defense, one way or the other. I don't think he blocked a shot. Did get a few deflections.

I have another note: "Manuel sprinting down the court." He doesn't look like an incredible athlete but he does run the floor pretty well and is mobile in the post. Several times in the game there was no outlet available when Manuel had the ball either after his own rebound or picking up a loose ball and he took it upon himself to take the ball over midcourt. Sometimes it worked well, sometimes it was a bit of an adventure. One time he did it, Naz Reid (Burger Boy/LSU commit) stepped in for a charge at mid-court. It was a blatant charge but the ref bailed out Manuel with a terrible blocking foul on Reid. Reid is a huge man. That is no kid. I'm surprised Manuel lived to see another day.

Most impressive play by Manuel in the first quarter was a beautiful corner 3. Nothing but net. Beautiful form on the replay.

Another impressive play in the second quarter: Manuel at the top of the key. Ball fake. Blew by defender, dished inside over a defender to Majur Majok (remember him?) for the dunk. Odd thing is Majok's name was spelled Majek on his jersey. Maybe that's why no one can find footage of him, we don't know his name?

I also wrote: dribble isn't tight but confident. No fear with him to dribble. Hands are good.

Manuel is a very willing passer. Posts up. Really presents himself as a good target. Posts up, kicks it out if nothing is there.

Another nice play: Manuel picked up loose ball, dribbles past half court, passes ahead, gets it back, dunks.

He got stripped a few times. Needs to be more aware of defenders sometimes.

When Manuel dunks, he does so a lot with 2 hands. Very solid in that regard.

2 more 3's from Manuel, one from about 21 feet . At this point he was 8-9 from the floor, 20 points.

As I've said, he's not a rim protector. When Patrick School pressed, they put in Majok (Majek?).

He took one bad shot, a very long 3 early in the possession that rimmed out but they were down 8 with 4:30 left and no shot clock, so hard to fault him.

I had Manuel for 24 & 8, maybe 2-3 assists. About 8-10 FG, 4-6 FT. His FT form is decent.

Manuel will help someone next year and will be very solid in 2 years.
--------

Whitney

I'll be quicker here. I was worried at first he was just a dunker but he's really expanded his game and I've seen him a few times live. He had a number of highlight reel dunks, where it looks like he's trying to pull the rim off. However, he also showed a step back, a Eurostep, solid FT form and excellent lift on his jumper. This kid is an incredible athlete and plays with an edge. He's gonna piss people off on other teams because he styles on his dunks and really poses. Facially and offensively Whitney reminds me of a right CJ Fair but he plays with a scowl. He has a prototypical forward physique and he looks college-ready now.

One thing I'll say is the color commentator said he's 6'6". She was the opposite of Jon Rothstein: she downplays heights? I don't know. He's in the range of 6'6"-6'7". To me, he'd be an Oshae replacement. Didn't really get a great look at Whitney's handle but it looked okay, nothing special. He drove left once really impressively but finished with his right hand for an and-one.

I'm not sure of Whitney's numbers but I had him for 19 points.

I was really impressed with Whitney. More so than I have been.
----
Naz Reid had a quiet game offensively as far as scoring but when he dunked, it was frightening. I will say this: Naz Reid will be one of the best big men PASSERS I've ever seen. Incredible vision and touch. And he is one BIG DUDE. Could play college DL.
 
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iommi said:
Okay, might as well write this up while I have a chance.

The game I watched was for the Union County Championship between The Patrick School and Roselle Catholic. It was held on 2/24 at Kean University.

Anyway, both teams have a ton of talent.

I charted the game but won't type it up, play for play. This will be a very loose, informal writeup. Not gonna worry too much about any sort of structure here. I'm also going to talk about RC's Kahlil Whitney, since he's a top SU target in 2019.

First to Manuel... I don't know if it was accurate but the color commentator referred to Manuel as 6'8". I've seen him usually listed at 6'9", sometimes 6'10". He looked about 6'9" with long arms.

Manuel started slow, he missed a jump hook, then badly missed a 3 from straight ahead. One of my notes said, "player waltzed through lane, Manuel didn't step in." As I've said, he's not a great defender but not terrible either. On that play, he was but usually I didn't notice him on defense, one way or the other. I don't think he blocked a shot. Did get a few deflections.

I have another note: "Manuel sprinting down the court." He doesn't look like an incredible athlete but he does run the floor pretty well and is mobile in the post. Several times in the game there was no outlet available when Manuel had the ball either after his own rebound or picking up a loose ball and he took it upon himself to take the ball over midcourt. Sometimes it worked well, sometimes it was a bit of an adventure. One time he did it, Naz Reid (Burger Boy/LSU commit) stepped in for a charge at mid-court. It was a blatant charge but the ref bailed out Manuel with a terrible blocking foul on Reid. Reid is a huge man. That is no kid. I'm surprised Manuel lived to see another day.

Most impressive play by Manuel in the first quarter was a beautiful corner 3. Nothing but bet. Beautiful form on the replay.

Another impressive play in the second quarter: Manuel at the top of the key. Ball fake. Blew by defender, dished inside over a defender to Majur Majok (remember him?) for the dunk. Odd thing is Majok's name was spelled Majek on his jersey. Maybe that's why no one can find footage of him, we don't know his name?

I also wrote: dribble isn't tight but confident. No fear with him to dribble. Hands are good.

Manuel is a very willing passer. Posts up. Really presents himself as a good target. Posts up, kicks it out if nothing is there.

Another nice play: Manuel picked up loose ball, dribbles past half court, passes ahead, gets it back, dunks.

He got stripped a few times. Needs to be more aware of defenders sometimes.

When Manuel dunks, he do so a lot with 2 hands. Very solid in that regard.

2 more 3's from Manuel, one from about 21 feet . At this point he was 8-9 from the floor, 20 points.

As I've said, he's not a rim protector. When Patrick School pressed, they put in Majok (Majek?).

He took one bad shot, a very long 3 early in the possession that rimmed out but they were down 8 with 4:30 left and no shot clock, so hard to fault him.

I had Manuel for 24 & 8, maybe 2-3 assists. About 8-10 FG, 4-6 FT. His FT form is decent.

Manuel will help someone next year and will be very solid in 2 years.
--------

Whitney

I'll be quicker here. I was worried at first he was just a dunker but he's really expanded his game and I've seen him a few times live. He had a number of highlight reel dunks, where it looks like he's trying to pull the rim off. However, he also showed a step back, a Eurostep, solid FT form and excellent lift on his jumper. This kid is an incredible athlete and plays with an edge. He's gonna piss people off on other teams because he styles on his dunks and really poses. Facially and offensively Whitney reminds me of a right CJ Fair but he plays with a scowl. He has a prototypical forward physique and he looks college-ready now.

One thing I'll say is the color commentator said he's 6'6". She was the opposite of Jon Rothstein: she downplays heights? I don't know. He's in the range of 6'6"-6'7". To me, he'd be an Oshae replacement. Didn't really get a great look at Whitney's handle but it looked okay, nothing special. He drove left once really impressively but finished with his right hand for an and-one.

I'm not sure of Whitney's numbers but I had him for 19 points.

I was really impressed with Whitney. More so than I have been.
----
Naz Reid had a quiet game offensively as far as scoring but when he dunked, it was frightening. I will say this: Naz Reid will be one of the best big men PASSERS I've ever seen. Incredible vision and touch. And he is one BIG DUDE. Could play college DL.
Expand...


Your first hand observations are must read, Iommi!

THANK YOU for taking the time to post such an extensive summary, VB.
 
iommi said:
Okay, might as well write this up while I have a chance.

The game I watched was for the Union County Championship between The Patrick School and Roselle Catholic. It was held on 2/24 at Kean University.

Anyway, both teams have a ton of talent.

I charted the game but won't type it up, play for play. This will be a very loose, informal writeup. Not gonna worry too much about any sort of structure here. I'm also going to talk about RC's Kahlil Whitney, since he's a top SU target in 2019.

First to Manuel... I don't know if it was accurate but the color commentator referred to Manuel as 6'8". I've seen him usually listed at 6'9", sometimes 6'10". He looked about 6'9" with long arms.

Manuel started slow, he missed a jump hook, then badly missed a 3 from straight ahead. One of my notes said, "player waltzed through lane, Manuel didn't step in." As I've said, he's not a great defender but not terrible either. On that play, he was but usually I didn't notice him on defense, one way or the other. I don't think he blocked a shot. Did get a few deflections.

I have another note: "Manuel sprinting down the court." He doesn't look like an incredible athlete but he does run the floor pretty well and is mobile in the post. Several times in the game there was no outlet available when Manuel had the ball either after his own rebound or picking up a loose ball and he took it upon himself to take the ball over midcourt. Sometimes it worked well, sometimes it was a bit of an adventure. One time he did it, Naz Reid (Burger Boy/LSU commit) stepped in for a charge at mid-court. It was a blatant charge but the ref bailed out Manuel with a terrible blocking foul on Reid. Reid is a huge man. That is no kid. I'm surprised Manuel lived to see another day.

Most impressive play by Manuel in the first quarter was a beautiful corner 3. Nothing but bet. Beautiful form on the replay.

Another impressive play in the second quarter: Manuel at the top of the key. Ball fake. Blew by defender, dished inside over a defender to Majur Majok (remember him?) for the dunk. Odd thing is Majok's name was spelled Majek on his jersey. Maybe that's why no one can find footage of him, we don't know his name?

I also wrote: dribble isn't tight but confident. No fear with him to dribble. Hands are good.

Manuel is a very willing passer. Posts up. Really presents himself as a good target. Posts up, kicks it out if nothing is there.

Another nice play: Manuel picked up loose ball, dribbles past half court, passes ahead, gets it back, dunks.

He got stripped a few times. Needs to be more aware of defenders sometimes.

When Manuel dunks, he do so a lot with 2 hands. Very solid in that regard.

2 more 3's from Manuel, one from about 21 feet . At this point he was 8-9 from the floor, 20 points.

As I've said, he's not a rim protector. When Patrick School pressed, they put in Majok (Majek?).

He took one bad shot, a very long 3 early in the possession that rimmed out but they were down 8 with 4:30 left and no shot clock, so hard to fault him.

I had Manuel for 24 & 8, maybe 2-3 assists. About 8-10 FG, 4-6 FT. His FT form is decent.

Manuel will help someone next year and will be very solid in 2 years.
--------

Whitney

I'll be quicker here. I was worried at first he was just a dunker but he's really expanded his game and I've seen him a few times live. He had a number of highlight reel dunks, where it looks like he's trying to pull the rim off. However, he also showed a step back, a Eurostep, solid FT form and excellent lift on his jumper. This kid is an incredible athlete and plays with an edge. He's gonna piss people off on other teams because he styles on his dunks and really poses. Facially and offensively Whitney reminds me of a right CJ Fair but he plays with a scowl. He has a prototypical forward physique and he looks college-ready now.

One thing I'll say is the color commentator said he's 6'6". She was the opposite of Jon Rothstein: she downplays heights? I don't know. He's in the range of 6'6"-6'7". To me, he'd be an Oshae replacement. Didn't really get a great look at Whitney's handle but it looked okay, nothing special. He drove left once really impressively but finished with his right hand for an and-one.

I'm not sure of Whitney's numbers but I had him for 19 points.

I was really impressed with Whitney. More so than I have been.
----
Naz Reid had a quiet game offensively as far as scoring but when he dunked, it was frightening. I will say this: Naz Reid will be one of the best big men PASSERS I've ever seen. Incredible vision and touch. And he is one BIG DUDE. Could play college DL.
Expand...


Awesome stuff appreciated
 
iommi said:
Okay, might as well write this up while I have a chance.

The game I watched was for the Union County Championship between The Patrick School and Roselle Catholic. It was held on 2/24 at Kean University.

Anyway, both teams have a ton of talent.

I charted the game but won't type it up, play for play. This will be a very loose, informal writeup. Not gonna worry too much about any sort of structure here. I'm also going to talk about RC's Kahlil Whitney, since he's a top SU target in 2019.

First to Manuel... I don't know if it was accurate but the color commentator referred to Manuel as 6'8". I've seen him usually listed at 6'9", sometimes 6'10". He looked about 6'9" with long arms.

Manuel started slow, he missed a jump hook, then badly missed a 3 from straight ahead. One of my notes said, "player waltzed through lane, Manuel didn't step in." As I've said, he's not a great defender but not terrible either. On that play, he was but usually I didn't notice him on defense, one way or the other. I don't think he blocked a shot. Did get a few deflections.

I have another note: "Manuel sprinting down the court." He doesn't look like an incredible athlete but he does run the floor pretty well and is mobile in the post. Several times in the game there was no outlet available when Manuel had the ball either after his own rebound or picking up a loose ball and he took it upon himself to take the ball over midcourt. Sometimes it worked well, sometimes it was a bit of an adventure. One time he did it, Naz Reid (Burger Boy/LSU commit) stepped in for a charge at mid-court. It was a blatant charge but the ref bailed out Manuel with a terrible blocking foul on Reid. Reid is a huge man. That is no kid. I'm surprised Manuel lived to see another day.

Most impressive play by Manuel in the first quarter was a beautiful corner 3. Nothing but net. Beautiful form on the replay.

Another impressive play in the second quarter: Manuel at the top of the key. Ball fake. Blew by defender, dished inside over a defender to Majur Majok (remember him?) for the dunk. Odd thing is Majok's name was spelled Majek on his jersey. Maybe that's why no one can find footage of him, we don't know his name?

I also wrote: dribble isn't tight but confident. No fear with him to dribble. Hands are good.

Manuel is a very willing passer. Posts up. Really presents himself as a good target. Posts up, kicks it out if nothing is there.

Another nice play: Manuel picked up loose ball, dribbles past half court, passes ahead, gets it back, dunks.

He got stripped a few times. Needs to be more aware of defenders sometimes.

When Manuel dunks, he does so a lot with 2 hands. Very solid in that regard.

2 more 3's from Manuel, one from about 21 feet . At this point he was 8-9 from the floor, 20 points.

As I've said, he's not a rim protector. When Patrick School pressed, they put in Majok (Majek?).

He took one bad shot, a very long 3 early in the possession that rimmed out but they were down 8 with 4:30 left and no shot clock, so hard to fault him.

I had Manuel for 24 & 8, maybe 2-3 assists. About 8-10 FG, 4-6 FT. His FT form is decent.

Manuel will help someone next year and will be very solid in 2 years.
--------

Whitney

I'll be quicker here. I was worried at first he was just a dunker but he's really expanded his game and I've seen him a few times live. He had a number of highlight reel dunks, where it looks like he's trying to pull the rim off. However, he also showed a step back, a Eurostep, solid FT form and excellent lift on his jumper. This kid is an incredible athlete and plays with an edge. He's gonna piss people off on other teams because he styles on his dunks and really poses. Facially and offensively Whitney reminds me of a right CJ Fair but he plays with a scowl. He has a prototypical forward physique and he looks college-ready now.

One thing I'll say is the color commentator said he's 6'6". She was the opposite of Jon Rothstein: she downplays heights? I don't know. He's in the range of 6'6"-6'7". To me, he'd be an Oshae replacement. Didn't really get a great look at Whitney's handle but it looked okay, nothing special. He drove left once really impressively but finished with his right hand for an and-one.

I'm not sure of Whitney's numbers but I had him for 19 points.

I was really impressed with Whitney. More so than I have been.
----
Naz Reid had a quiet game offensively as far as scoring but when he dunked, it was frightening. I will say this: Naz Reid will be one of the best big men PASSERS I've ever seen. Incredible vision and touch. And he is one BIG DUDE. Could play college DL.
Expand...
I know this isn't a NAZ thread. However, I wonder if he becomes available if LSU rumors from a few weeks back turn into anything.
 
Ranked 135 on 24/7. 4 Star on ESPN. He would be a solid get for the program and add much needed depth. Seen a video on YouTube of him practicing his game- good looking stroke for a big man although it’s a bit slow. Hopefully he’s Cuse bound- would make this great class even better!
 

This one's a better one of him working out...looks like he has a real nice touch around the hoop and shows off his outside shot a little bit. Really liked the part where he's catching it at the foul line and turning and shooting. Seems like he could have a good post game with his back to the hoop. kinda reminds me of a rick Jackson (I think some have said that already)
 

"Once he starts setting visits, Manuel may start to give off more of an indication of what direction he might be leaning. I'd probably be a bit nervous about Syracuse if I was one of the other programs in his final group. He's a fit at any of them, but he's exactly the type of guy who Jim Boeheim seems to swoop in on and plug into a seemingly never-ending parade of big guys to help anchor the zone."
 
96ToInfin said:
Ranked 135 on 24/7. 4 Star on ESPN. He would be a solid get for the program and add much needed depth. Seen a video on YouTube of him practicing his game- good looking stroke for a big man although it’s a bit slow. Hopefully he’s Cuse bound- would make this great class even better!
Expand...

Yes, he needs room to get his outside shot off, but that's not unusual for a big.
 
iommi said:
Yes, he needs room to get his outside shot off, but that's not unusual for a big.
Expand...

Pick and pop like TyLy.

Do you consider VM a 4 or 5 at Cuse? I'm thinking primarily a 4 and backup/emergency 5.
 
96ToInfin said:
Ranked 135 on 24/7. 4 Star on ESPN. He would be a solid get for the program and add much needed depth. Seen a video on YouTube of him practicing his game- good looking stroke for a big man although it’s a bit slow. Hopefully he’s Cuse bound- would make this great class even better!
Expand...

Govan [gtown] was also considered slow and unathletic. Got himself into peak shape in college, and he's a very good player. I see similarities between Govan and Manuel -- kid reminds me a little of Taurean Thompson [that might be an unpopular guy to compare him to], but a better rebounder.
 
Vince, who is Number 13 on Jalen's team (Immaculate)? He has a sweet looking jump hook. Number 1 is Justin Winston.
 
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RF2044 said:
Govan [gtown] was also considered slow and unathletic. Got himself into peak shape in college, and he's a very good player. I see similarities between Govan and Manuel -- kid reminds me a little of Taurean Thompson [that might be an unpopular guy to compare him to], but a better rebounder.
Expand...

Manuel is not unathletic, it just doesn't jump it at you. He made a dunk with two hands with his back to the basket in the game I watched. I should've put that in my write-up. That's pretty athletic.
 
themorey said:
Pick and pop like TyLy.

Do you consider VM a 4 or 5 at Cuse? I'm thinking primarily a 4 and backup/emergency 5.
Expand...

Well, he'd play the 5 next year because that is a need. Not sure he has the foot speed to play the 4 defensively and his post game is better suited for the 5. Down the line maybe he could be a 4.
 
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