Plenty of Talent Here | Page 2 | Syracusefan.com

Plenty of Talent Here

MDCuse

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Jesse can be better than Bacot. I think Bacot is great, but physically he does not have the upside that Jesse does.
Bacot has been doing this for 3+ years. Jesse not even a full season. If Jesse, and this is a massive IF, can stay on the court he can be very very good. I'm just not at the point of putting him in the conversation for Naismith Player of the Year and that's where Bacot is.
 

Cusefan0307

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Bacot has been doing this for 3+ years. Jesse not even a full season. If Jesse, and this is a massive IF, can stay on the court he can be very very good. I'm just not at the point of putting him in the conversation for Naismith Player of the Year and that's where Bacot is.
Bacot ain’t winning Naismith player of the year. He’s an undersized below the rim center. I stand by the fact Jesse has higher upside.
 

OrangeDW

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Here's a hypothesis - Benny's development (as a 5*) is stalled because he was the only freshman, and fell in the Boeheim Brothers void/trap last year?
That is - he never got a chance of regular significant game time, and had no one to really relate/hang with, because he was in a recruiting class of one?

Otherwise I have no answers. 2 points. 1-5, 23 minutes... in his season two "coming out" party after one decent game all last year - a blowout vs. Duke.
Eh, if he can’t shoot or dribble, that’s not anybody else’s fault.

And if he can’t shoot or dribble, he needs to remake himself into a hustle player, garbage man. Because defensively and rebounding wise he should be able to become really good, but he can’t be out there clanking 6 contested mid range jumpers a game that don’t even look like they have a chance, and traveling 2-3 times. Those are wasted possessions. He has made some nice passes.

All his touches should be within 15 feet of the basket and he needs to focus on interior passing, cutting, offensive boards and putbacks, and maybe a quick, hard move to the basket with 1 dribble and without traveling. Never mind trying to shoot jumpers or break down defenses from 25 feet away. Maybe senior year after lots of development.
 

MDCuse

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Maybe 15-16 ppg is more realistic, but if this team is going to be any good at all, that’s gonna have to be the minimum for him, since like I said, I think he’s at worst out #2 option on offense. I also really don’t get why people are getting so hung up on 3 blocks per game when that’s literally what he averaged last season in 28 mpg. It’s unreasonable to expect him to at least replicate that this season?

We’ve seen time and time again young bigs at SU that can’t stay on the court due to foul trouble, and nearly every single one of them improves on that year over year. I don’t see why it’d be any different with Jesse. Hell, just take away the silly fouls 75 feet from the basket that he seems to commit at an alarming rate, and that probably buys him an average of 3-4 more mpg.
I can absolutely see 15/8. That's a very reasonable, and very good season. I think the blocks getting to 3 per game is going to be a stretch. For perspective, 3 BPG would have ranked him sixth in the nation last year. I would love to see all that, but you are asking him to be a player of the year candidate and as much as I like him, I'm just not there yet. I think the foul issues will get better, but will still be present and I am interested to see how much run Hima gets. I think Hima is going to play 8-10 MPG. We shall see.
 

MDCuse

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Bacot ain’t winning Naismith player of the year. He’s an undersized below the rim center. I stand by the fact Jesse has higher upside.
Bacot is on the NABC pre-season top 20 list. He's in that discussion.
 

OrangeDW

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Like the optimism. The one thing that separated SU from Lehigh last night -- we had Jesse Edwards and they did not. Our guards are good; all the forwards are raw. The young forwards will have the opportunity to sort themselves out and get better.

It will be hard to judge this SU team until we play teams that have a center who can match with Edwards.
Yeah - the production at forward was horrific in game 1. And that’s against Lehigh.

Brown is the only one who looks solid so far. Can see flashes of talent in the other 3. But as far as actually getting on the court and producing - Brown is the only one who sort of has. Hope he can maintain it against better teams.

I agree with the “a year away” - there are clearly tools to work with.

That’s going to be awfully frustrating if it holds true though, because we have one of the best centers we’ve had in a long time and a strong backcourt with depth. We’re one big time forward, who can score and defend, away from being a potential top 25 type team IMO.
 

MDCuse

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Cool. He won’t win it. I’m saying he’s peaked. Jesse has not.
LOL I'm not sure why you keep saying "Bacot won't win it". I never said he would but I've stated he's in that conversation. I hope you're right. I hope Jesse has more upside. I certainly think that's possible. I'm not going to say with any sense of certainty that he does though. That's impossible to know at this point.
 

Cusefan0307

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LOL I'm not sure why you keep saying "Bacot won't win it". I never said he would but I've stated he's in that conversation. I hope you're right. I hope Jesse has more upside. I certainly think that's possible. I'm not going to say with any sense of certainty that he does though. That's impossible to know at this point.
I saw Bacot in the National Title game go against a bigger and more athletic center and he went something Like 3-15 on layups. I’m not saying he’s a bad player, but he’s got some limitations athletically. Some guys reach their potential earlier and have less potential overall than players who are more athletic. There’s no doubt Bacot has been a productive player, but he’s played basketball longer and came in more refined than Jesse.
 

Capt. Tuttle

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Here's a hypothesis - Benny's development (as a 5*) is stalled because he was the only freshman, and fell in the Boeheim Brothers void/trap last year?
That is - he never got a chance of regular significant game time, and had no one to really relate/hang with, because he was in a recruiting class of one?

Otherwise I have no answers. 2 points. 1-5, 23 minutes... in his season two "coming out" party after one decent game all last year - a blowout vs. Duke.
He might be the Billy Beane of SU basketball.
 

rrlbees

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Here's a hypothesis - Benny's development (as a 5*) is stalled because he was the only freshman, and fell in the Boeheim Brothers void/trap last year?
That is - he never got a chance of regular significant game time, and had no one to really relate/hang with, because he was in a recruiting class of one?

Otherwise I have no answers. 2 points. 1-5, 23 minutes... in his season two "coming out" party after one decent game all last year - a blowout vs. Duke.

First half of the season last year he averaged 14mpg. That’s enough to show if you have something.
 

MDCuse

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I saw Bacot in the National Title game go against a bigger and more athletic center and he went something Like 3-15 on layups. I’m not saying he’s a bad player, but he’s got some limitations athletically. Some guys reach their potential earlier and have less potential overall than players who are more athletic. There’s no doubt Bacot has been a productive player, but he’s played basketball longer and came in more refined than Jesse.
I don't disagree with your assessment of Bacot. My whole issue is putting incredibly lofty expectations on a guy that we love but have not seen play at a high level for an entire year. I absolutely agree that Bacot is, probably, at his collegiate ceiling. I also agree that Jesse, probably, has some areas to grow. I'm just incredibly conservative in putting him in the class of best players in the country yet. Maybe it's just my defense mechanism so I never get let down lol
 

Bayside44

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I think Bacot is great. A monster on the glass. He also effectively has two years of experience on Jesse, despite being the same class year. He started 60 games his freshman and sophomore years and played over 1,400 minutes. Jesse started 0 games and played a total of 305 minutes his first two years. He finally came into his own last season and it feels like his confidence level this year will be through the roof.

I think 18 points, 9 boards and 3-4 blocks per game is a totally reasonable expectation if Jesse can stay healthy and out of foul trouble. That would absolutely put him in the conversation of best big in the ACC.

That's an absolute monster line, for a guy that because of the other four guys on the court will demand more attention than Bacot.
 

FRANKIEFAN

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I like the team but I have no clue how we do against better teams tournament caliber. Joe's efficient night might not happen if there is a big athletic guy on him, ditto Jesse, and the freshmen could get exposed.
 

FRANKIEFAN

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Eh, if he can’t shoot or dribble, that’s not anybody else’s fault.

And if he can’t shoot or dribble, he needs to remake himself into a hustle player, garbage man. Because defensively and rebounding wise he should be able to become really good, but he can’t be out there clanking 6 contested mid range jumpers a game that don’t even look like they have a chance, and traveling 2-3 times. Those are wasted possessions. He has made some nice passes.

All his touches should be within 15 feet of the basket and he needs to focus on interior passing, cutting, offensive boards and putbacks, and maybe a quick, hard move to the basket with 1 dribble and without traveling. Never mind trying to shoot jumpers or break down defenses from 25 feet away. Maybe senior year after lots of development.

I don't really want to play a wing that has zero perimeter skills.

I know a lot of people don't respect Syracuse as a program or brand and care more about what happens with Buddy's pro career or want a feel good story if Williams improves to just be a disappointing prospect and recruiting miss vs possibly our biggest bust ever but I'm good on that.

Next guy up hes been recruited over by 3 freshmen forwards who could all be recruited over themselves next year.
 

FRANKIEFAN

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Also this team is going to need our HOF coach making a lot of in game adjustments and substitutions depending on who is hot and who is not. I don't think WIlliams can actually play himself OUT of the rotation as hard as it may look like hes trying. I'm not sure anyone is going to be allowed to play through rough games even Joe and Jesse to a certain extent.
 

OrangeDW

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Also this team is going to need our HOF coach making a lot of in game adjustments and substitutions depending on who is hot and who is not. I don't think WIlliams can actually play himself OUT of the rotation as hard as it may look like hes trying. I'm not sure anyone is going to be allowed to play through rough games even Joe and Jesse to a certain extent.

Jesse should be in as much as possible, but Hima looks way better than I thought he’d be. So it’s nice that we look to have a functional backup in case of foul trouble and to give Jesse a 2-3 minute rest each half. But barring foul trouble, I think Jesse goes 34-35 in close games - and we absolutely need him in there that much if we’re going to score against good teams.

Joe is a tough one - part of me says with our depth at guard, it should be more of a true 3 guard rotation. But with the lack of 3 point shooting on the rest of the roster, we’ll probably need him on the court more than that. Would be an amazing development for this team if Bell can shoot it consistently and do some other things well enough to stay on the court. Early returns are far from that though - JB has been all over him and he’s getting some quick hooks and long bench runs.
 

CousCuse

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Here's a hypothesis - Benny's development (as a 5*) is stalled because he was the only freshman, and fell in the Boeheim Brothers void/trap last year?
That is - he never got a chance of regular significant game time, and had no one to really relate/hang with, because he was in a recruiting class of one?

Otherwise I have no answers. 2 points. 1-5, 23 minutes... in his season two "coming out" party after one decent game all last year - a blowout vs. Duke.
A guy comes in as a 5 star player and can't do much of anything and it's the coaches fault? Come on.
 

shandeezy7

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I can absolutely see 15/8. That's a very reasonable, and very good season. I think the blocks getting to 3 per game is going to be a stretch. For perspective, 3 BPG would have ranked him sixth in the nation last year. I would love to see all that, but you are asking him to be a player of the year candidate and as much as I like him, I'm just not there yet. I think the foul issues will get better, but will still be present and I am interested to see how much run Hima gets. I think Hima is going to play 8-10 MPG. We shall see.

But he averaged 2.8 blocks per game last year, which ranked 11th nationally and first in the ACC. How is adding .2 blocks per game a “stretch?”
 

shandeezy7

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That's an absolute monster line, for a guy that because of the other four guys on the court will demand more attention than Bacot.

He’ll also get way more opportunities on offense for that same reason.
 

CousCuse

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Jesse should be in as much as possible, but Hima looks way better than I thought he’d be. So it’s nice that we look to have a functional backup in case of foul trouble and to give Jesse a 2-3 minute rest each half. But barring foul trouble, I think Jesse goes 34-35 in close games - and we absolutely need him in there that much if we’re going to score against good teams.

Joe is a tough one - part of me says with our depth at guard, it should be more of a true 3 guard rotation. But with the lack of 3 point shooting on the rest of the roster, we’ll probably need him on the court more than that. Would be an amazing development for this team if Bell can shoot it consistently and do some other things well enough to stay on the court. Early returns are far from that though - JB has been all over him and he’s getting some quick hooks and long bench runs.
Hima is almost as big of a get as Mintz, IMO. Centers that have that size and athleticism and basketball IQ are far and few between.
 

OrangeDW

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Hima is almost as big of a get as Mintz, IMO. Centers that have that size and athleticism and basketball IQ are far and few between.
…….alright! Ok. Yeah, I’m happy we got him.
 

MDCuse

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But he averaged 2.8 blocks per game last year, which ranked 11th nationally and first in the ACC. How is adding .2 blocks per game a “stretch?”
Many factors. It's not like you just get another year older and all your numbers take a jump. I don't think Jesse plays enough minutes this year, I think Hima is better than Frank so Jim will go to him more, I think the foul issues will continue to cut into his minutes, I think the transition in and out of defensive styles will take time to adjust, may not get as many opportunities in M2M.
 

shandeezy7

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Many factors. It's not like you just get another year older and all your numbers take a jump. I don't think Jesse plays enough minutes this year, I think Hima is better than Frank so Jim will go to him more, I think the foul issues will continue to cut into his minutes, I think the transition in and out of defensive styles will take time to adjust, may not get as many opportunities in M2M.

I think JB’s track record speaks for itself and he rides his stars - for better or worse. I don’t see Hima getting any minutes outside of Jesse being in foul trouble or absolutely gassed (assuming a close game).
 

Wrinkle

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I love Jesse but he's not better than Bacot. And Lively is probably better as well. Saying he's the best in the ACC just isn't true
I think it's certainly an argument, and I would take Jesse
 

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