Poll: Put Your Feelings Down Now For History

[PhatOrange]

Lets not go crazy

We were hardly great on defense.

Lets not go crazy

We were hardly great on defense.

You've made a couple of interesting comments. Is the defense Alabama great - no it's not but we don't have the thing you talk about all the time - talent. Sure don't have Alabama talent - or 'cough' 'cough' rutgers talent. From the standpoint of what Schaf's had to work with - no depth, undersized linebackers etc, he's done a great job. 2010 was a rock solid defense. At times this season - especially when it counted - the defense was great. It was great at Rutgers, it was great against Pitt, it was great against Louisville and West Virginia.

If a coordinator has proved his worth/value it's Schafer. Is he a CEO? Can he manage the big picture of a program? Who knows, but we'll find out. I'm happy with the cloth the guy is cut from.

Secondly, I'm surprised you buy in to the notion that it was done to preserve a 10 man recruiting class. A class that has only 2 All American type recruits in it. If now is the time to scrap a class this is it. Anybody who thinks this was done to save a class isn't seeing the bigger picture.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

H/T to ForthCountry at TNIAAM:

 

[orangeintheacc]

I love the hire to maintain the momentum from this year and hopefully it gives us the ability to keep the other assistants in the fold. I believe that Shafer has paid his dues and earned the right to succeed or fail as our HC.
One thing Shafer brings as a HC is intensity...whereas I think Marrone expected the players to get themselves fired up to play, I think Shafer's pregame speech will have these guys foaming at the mouth to run out of the tunnel. Otto better take the governor off the golf cart!

 

[Orangepace]

Voted w/ the Like button, but I'm much more neutral than that. I feel like they rushed the decision. I'm not sure if TGD did this with one foot out the door or not, but really, I don't think enough thought was put into this hire and thus it was irresponsible to not be prepared. The University could have easily taken a few days and at least interviewed outsiders in the effort to confirm their position, but it wasn't done. Why? Were they afraid they would find someone better? Were they not willing to waste the time to confirm?

I've stated many times here that I think that Shafer will keep us a mediocre team, for better or worse. I define the prospects of remaining mediocre as a fail, but some here are happy with a 7-5 finish year in and out. This wasn't necessarily our chance to hire someone who would take us to 10-2 right away, but it could have been... Cannot know how prepared someone is without at least interviewing a few people..

That all said, I'm actually getting tired of the under 50 recruiting classes. While I know the star system is flawed, I laugh that we are consistently being beaten on the recruiting paths for higher quality recruits. I love that we can identify talent, but to be a true competitor, you need to be able to win a fight or two on the recruiting front. We don't have the salesman we need given the current state of our facilities and thus, I think we need to seriously focus on bringing in a dynamite recruiter position coach at this point.

That said, I hope that I'm wrong. I hope Shafer is the guy to drive us to 9-10 wins on a recurring basis. But I am having serious reservations that this hire was made to help in the short term (recruiting, returning players) as opposed to long term (we may be in the market for a new coach as early as next year at this point).

 

[All4SU]

Good topic for the inaugural post of a long-time lurker, I think.

This may just be your worst post ever. ;-)

 

[WoadBlue]

I haven't followed Syracuse closely enough to have a good idea whether Shafer will succeed as HC there with the Cuse entering the ACC. I have no doubt that it would be better him and the program if he had HC experience before taking Syracuse into a new conference.

Hopefully, he can use his midwest background to sign midwest, especially OH, and PA talent away from the Big Ten. If he can do that and land his share of NJ talent and keep dipping into the South, especially FL, he can win consistently at Syracuse, assuming he makes the transition to HC rather well and quickly.

 

[Cuseman78]

I'm going to say this again, how do you know they didn't ask?

Gross was not blindsided by this, and contacts were made weeks ago. They knew who was is play and who wasn't. This decision was not made in a rush.

I don't know that to be true. And even if it is, we could have done more IF we opened up the purse strings. We, again, decided not to go that route. We may get lucky and he may work out. But luck shouldn't be a strategy. We essentially have a MAC level HC (at this point) running an ACC show. My fingers are crossed but this is a risk.

 

[OrangePA]

You've made a couple of interesting comments. Is the defense Alabama great - no it's not but we don't have the thing you talk about all the time - talent. Sure don't have Alabama talent - or 'cough' 'cough' rutgers talent. From the standpoint of what Schaf's had to work with - no depth, undersized linebackers etc, he's done a great job. 2010 was a rock solid defense. At times this season - especially when it counted - the defense was great. It was great at Rutgers, it was great against Pitt, it was great against Louisville and West Virginia.

If a coordinator has proved his worth/value it's Schafer. Is he a CEO? Can he manage the big picture of a program? Who knows, but we'll find out. I'm happy with the cloth the guy is cut from.

Secondly, I'm surprised you buy in to the notion that it was done to preserve a 10 man recruiting class. A class that has only 2 All American type recruits in it. If now is the time to scrap a class this is it. Anybody who thinks this was done to save a class isn't seeing the bigger picture.

The defense was much improved. It was not great.

If after looking at all of the candidates it was determined that Scott was the best I'm good with that.

If he was selected to preserve a class or to simply promote "stability" I think in the long run it could be a mistake.

At my alma mater, IU, we did the same thing twice in basketball and football. And it failed in both instances.

 

[Cuseman78]

im 1 of the 2 dislikes so far.

think we shouldve opened it up and seen whats out there. its not too late, the NC game was last night, the season just ended. and we are in the top half, of a top 5 conf...top notch guys would be ready to give up whatever gig they have to come to us.

diaco, will now be recruiting against u as...and i guarantee it...a HC. and we all be like, godindamit.

please no comparisons to P, that was 22 freakin years ago.

seems to me that this was done to possibly save the recruiting class and with an eye that both hackett and shafer are worth keeping.

but if you have 2 Qbs that means you have none...same with Head Coaches.

this could get ugly. :noidea:



Oh Lord

For the record, I'm the other. And its only because there isn't a "meh. we went on the cheap again" option. I don't like crossing fingers when hiring coaches. Sure feels like that this morning.

 

[SaintTristan]

Obviously its a bad hire given some of the available candidates.

He is a DC, not an HC. He is not going to be able to recruit with the top half of the ACC.

SU took the easy/cheap route. I dont get why they fund a football program if they are going to half-ass their coaching searches.

Should have gone with Herman.

 

[OrangePA]

Would P have been hired? I see what you're saying OPA but things are done within the context of the flow of the knowledge you have and if you really like something, why look? I by no means are dismissing what you said because you have a good point but sometimes you have to hire when you think you have something good already in hand.

I like this move but I'd like to add the more staff that stays the better and depending on who stays and who Shafer gets to replace them will have a big effect on how I'll feel about the hire as a whole. I like Shafer and people may see a side of him that they haven't before...in a good way.

*Edit at 7:52 1/8/13: Shafers D played hard even when down and out...that shows me something.

My only question is this.

If we were starting from scratch would Shafer be the pick?

If yes, great.

If no, then the decision is risky long term.

That's all I'm saying.

 

[Cuseman78]

Obviously its a bad hire given some of the available candidates.

He is a DC, not an HC. He is not going to be able to recruit with the top half of the ACC.

SU took the easy/cheap route. I dont get why they fund a football program if they are going to half-ass their coaching searches.

Should have gone with Herman.

I won't agree that its a bad hire, but I sure as hell agree with the "easy/cheap route". I guess I should know better by now though.

Fingers crossed.

 

[All4SU]

Obviously its a bad hire given some of the available candidates.

He is a DC, not an HC. He is not going to be able to recruit with the top half of the ACC.

SU took the easy/cheap route. I dont get why they fund a football program if they are going to half-ass their coaching searches.

Should have gone with Herman.

Other than getting sidetracked at Michigan, he is exactly the kind of coach who becomes a head coach.

 

[AirForceOrange]

Obviously its a bad hire given some of the available candidates.

He is a DC, not an HC. He is not going to be able to recruit with the top half of the ACC.

SU took the easy/cheap route. I dont get why they fund a football program if they are going to half-ass their coaching searches.

Should have gone with Herman.

Every HC starts off as an HC, right? Where do all coaches start? As assistants or coordinators...

Also, how do people know they didn't contact other prospective hires? Maybe there wasn't anyone available, interested that was worth the job? Let's not delude ourselves, SU football is on the right track but has only had 2 winning seasons since 2001. That is 10 years with only 2 winning seasons and in those seasons they team was 8-5...we have not been a Top 25 team for a long time and thus hiring the type of coach some you think we should have got is/was unrealistic...

 

[PhatOrange]

The defense was much improved. It was not great.

If after looking at all of the candidates it was determined that Scott was the best I'm good with that.

If he was selected to preserve a class or to simply promote "stability" I think in the long run it could be a mistake.

At my alma mater, IU, we did the same thing twice in basketball and football. And it failed in both instances.

I surmise the defense isn't great because it doesn't have great talent. Schafer's defense can certainly be good enough to stop and/or contain ACC offense.

He was not selected to preserve a class. And if he was then TGD should be fired.

I'm not a big fan of handing Mike Hopkins the keys either but I think I'm in the minority on that one.

 

[SaintTristan]

If we were starting from scratch would Shafer be the pick?

Might be the first decent point you have ever had.

 

[OrangePA]

Might be the first decent point you have ever had.

I guess I lead you one to zero.

 

[AirForceOrange]

Might be the first decent point you have ever had.

Why because it lines up and supports your opnion? I think it was dumb...it's apples and oranges...

 

[Orangello]

I like this. I think the school was in a tough place given the timing of DM's departure. If he can bring in a stud recruiter this thing could kick up to the next level. This staff has demonstrated that they can evaluate and improve talent. Keys to me are retaining Hack, Wheat and Adkins. If we can get a serviceable QB and continue to improve the OL, we've got better than a punchers chance going forward.

 

[OrangePA]

I surmise the defense isn't great because it doesn't have great talent. Schafer's defense can certainly be good enough to stop and/or contain ACC offense.

He was not selected to preserve a class. And if he was then TGD should be fired.

I'm not a big fan of handing Mike Hopkins the keys either but I think I'm in the minority on that one.

Why do we get sidetracked?

I have no problem with Shafer's coaching ability on defense.

Yes the more talent he has the better he coaches.

I just wouldn't use the word great in describing our defense this year.

Much improved due to talent/experience but not great.

 

[ForeverOrange]

I like this pick for the short term. I would have to wait and see his on field approach to know how I feel about it for the long term. Can one of our historians/statisticians give us some kind of insight on success rates for coaches who have been promoted from within vs new hire?

 

[PhatOrange]

My only question is this.

If we were starting from scratch would Shafer be the pick?

If yes, great.

If no, then the decision is risky long term.

That's all I'm saying.

If we were starting from scratch (with realistic options) then who would be the pick period? I have no idea but I do know we're not starting from scratch.

The 4 names thrown around the most by the board were:

Al Golden - who's overall head coaching record is 40-45 (@ Miami 13-11)

Bob Diaco - Notre Dame defensive coordinator (his resume is a carbon copy of Schafer' and no prior HC experience)

Nate Hackett

Scott Schafer

Some others:

Kirby Smart - Alabama DC (no prior HC experience. position coach until 2007. southern guy, no northern ties/experience)

Phil Montgomery - Baylor OC (no prior HC eperience. Was a high school OC in 2002. No northern ties.)

Dan Mullen - comical to even suggest Mullen would be a candidate.

Cristobal - 27-47 at FIU. Prior assistant jobs at Rutgers and Miami. (I'd honestly give him a call now and see if he wants to be our recruiting coordinator / TE coach.

 

[cuseincincy]

I voted "like" but is probably more accurate that I am "fine with it." If this had happened a month ago then I'd probably been more in favor of a more extensive search. At this time I think the only other options were likely to other team's coordinator's or some re-tread who is out of a job for a reason. Highly unlikely for another head coach to make the switch at this point in the calendar. I'd been Ok with Diaco also because once you get past all the Notre Dame overhype he is a very good coach who has produced some outstanding defenses. Not sure he's better than Shafer.

 

[SaintTristan]

Why because it lines up and supports your opnion? I think it was dumb...it's apples and oranges...

go home.

 

[Scooch]

If he was selected to preserve a class or to simply promote "stability" I think in the long run it could be a mistake.

I don't get you sometimes, OPA. I can't think of a poster on this board who is a bigger advocate for "stability" than you. And yet you're saying that if the guy was hired to promote stability it could be a mistake? :noidea:


Personally, I'm fine with this hire. I keep thinking back to January 2005. While Robinson turned out to be an epic disaster, it didn't help that he had absolutely no time to put a competent staff together. I mean does anyone remember the colossal train wreck that was Brian Pariani?

Everyone seems to agree that this staff is strong. If hiring Shafer means we can keep the core of it intact for a few years then I can only imagine the program would be better off than hiring someone new and having the core leave in short order.

If Shafer sucks than we fire him and move on.