Postgame Thoughts... Clemson (game 2) | Page 7 | Syracusefan.com

Postgame Thoughts... Clemson (game 2)

Not sure why you chose to post this in response to my comment, as I don't think it's disrespectful to ask a coach a hard question at all.

Gutierrez's tweets were not good, in my opinion - and neither was JB's reply in tonight's presser.

For anyone who hadn't seen the tweets in question, here's one of them:



Fair enough, I guess because I don't see anything bad at all about Gutierrez's Tweet. It's an opinion about basketball and one that is shared by other basketball people. If that's all it takes to set a coach off, well that's not a good look.
 
The mess of an early season with not many cupcakes and all the pauses was definitely a factor in making JBs job much tougher.

And I do remember Kadary really sucking wind after his dunk against Rutgers during the timeout. I don’t think JB was making that up or anything. And maybe it was a motivation technique to get Kadary to work harder. There’s so much stuff like that involved with a team that we don’t know.

But still...
Minutes played, last 5 games:
JGIII - 19.8 per game
Kadary - 25.8 per game

Minutes played, last 10 games:
JGIII - 23.1 per game
Kadary - 23.4 per game

It took a little longer than many folks would have liked, but JB has essentially flipped Joe's and Kadary's minutes (though he has kept Joe in the starting role).
 
IMO Kadary was established as our best guard after the Buffalo game. He definitely hasn't played perfect all year, but I agree he should've been given the keys after that game.
Agreed. And on the “hasn’t played perfect” - he really can get so much better IMO. Awfully high ceiling. He starts finishing better and develops the floater, improves the outside shot, and cuts out the occasional turnover where it just looks like he kinda leaves “attack mode” and kinda goes into “get rid of the ball and get out of the way for a few seconds” mode, leading to a sloppy pass....sky is the limit.
 
Fair enough, I guess because I don't see anything bad at all about Gutierrez's Tweet. It's an opinion about basketball and one that is shared by other basketball people. If that's all it takes to set a coach off, well that's not a good look.
I'm guessing it was the addition of Jesse into the equation - plus the comment that Jesse "deserved" minutes that probably irked JB the most.

Both guys (Gutierrez and JB) came out looking bad as far as I'm concerned.
 
I love when JB attacks the media. We wouldn't of won 10 games if our lineup was picked by a 5'2" journalist.

If the media can critique, the media can be critiqued as well. If you don't want to get called out for being short, say your prayers and eat your vitamins.

Just kidding of course, I'm sure he is a nice guy and very knowledgeable about basketball
 
I'm guessing it was the addition of Jesse into the equation - plus the comment that Jesse "deserved" minutes that probably irked JB the most.

Both guys (Gutierrez and JB) came out looking bad as far as I'm concerned.
Eh, I'm not sure either look that bad. Not sure if it was surly JB or wry JB -- subtle difference that I'm convinced very few posters here understand -- but the man has a point.

Kadary has played less than 15 mins twice on the season and we're 2-0 in those games (G'town/Bryant). Other than that he hasn't been below 15. In games where he's played between 15-19 mins, we're 3-3. So maybe we win the first Pitt game if he plays more (got routed in the second pitt game) or maybe the first carolina game? I guess there's a chance. Otherwise he played 20+ and we still lost several games where he played big mins -- 29 vs. Duke, 26 vs. Ga Tech, 28 at Clemson, 37 at Rutgers.

As far as Edwards -- certainly could make a case he should have played more but in his case it's more difficult to point to who comes off the floor.

Gutierrez, for his part, makes an interesting point. You get killed on the glass at Rutgers and vs. Carolina as well as game 1 vs. Clemson. So I'm assuming that's maybe where he gets 17-5. But, to be fair, Kadary played 37 mins vs. Rutgers, so you're saying Edwards alone is an 11-point swing? Kadary plays 28 at Clemson, so a few more minutes of kadary and Edwards playing more erases a 17-point deficit?

At the end of the day JB hates to be challenged and that's not the greatest look but I get where he's coming from most of the time. I mean, the 10 -ing games line is one we all laugh at but it's probably mostly true. And Gutierrez is correct to wonder why we didn't see more Edwards sooner at least vs. certain teams ... but I'm not sure where exactly he's coming up with 17-5.
 
I'm guessing it was the addition of Jesse into the equation - plus the comment that Jesse "deserved" minutes that probably irked JB the most.

Both guys (Gutierrez and JB) came out looking bad as far as I'm concerned.

How does that question and comment make Gutierrez look bad? If being second guessed about basketball is so offensive to a coach, maybe he should take an anger management class or something.

I'm not asking to be a jerk, I genuinely don't see it.
 
Eh, I'm not sure either look that bad. Not sure if it was surly JB or wry JB -- subtle difference that I'm convinced very few posters here understand -- but the man has a point.

Kadary has played less than 15 mins twice on the season and we're 2-0 in those games (G'town/Bryant). Other than that he hasn't been below 15. In games where he's played between 15-19 mins, we're 3-3. So maybe we win the first Pitt game if he plays more (got routed in the second pitt game) or maybe the first carolina game? I guess there's a chance. Otherwise he played 20+ and we still lost several games where he played big mins -- 29 vs. Duke, 26 vs. Ga Tech, 28 at Clemson, 37 at Rutgers.

As far as Edwards -- certainly could make a case he should have played more but in his case it's more difficult to point to who comes off the floor.

Gutierrez, for his part, makes an interesting point. You get killed on the glass at Rutgers and vs. Carolina as well as game 1 vs. Clemson. So I'm assuming that's maybe where he gets 17-5. But, to be fair, Kadary played 37 mins vs. Rutgers, so you're saying Edwards alone is an 11-point swing? Kadary plays 28 at Clemson, so a few more minutes of kadary and Edwards playing more erases a 17-point deficit?

At the end of the day JB hates to be challenged and that's not the greatest look but I get where he's coming from most of the time. I mean, the 10 -ing games line is one we all laugh at but it's probably mostly true. And Gutierrez is correct to wonder why we didn't see more Edwards sooner at least vs. certain teams ... but I'm not sure where exactly he's coming up with 17-5.

just saw the video and I take it all back. Angry JB through and through. Bad look.
 
Eh, I'm not sure either look that bad. Not sure if it was surly JB or wry JB -- subtle difference that I'm convinced very few posters here understand -- but the man has a point.

Kadary has played less than 15 mins twice on the season and we're 2-0 in those games (G'town/Bryant). Other than that he hasn't been below 15. In games where he's played between 15-19 mins, we're 3-3. So maybe we win the first Pitt game if he plays more (got routed in the second pitt game) or maybe the first carolina game? I guess there's a chance. Otherwise he played 20+ and we still lost several games where he played big mins -- 29 vs. Duke, 26 vs. Ga Tech, 28 at Clemson, 37 at Rutgers.

As far as Edwards -- certainly could make a case he should have played more but in his case it's more difficult to point to who comes off the floor.

Gutierrez, for his part, makes an interesting point. You get killed on the glass at Rutgers and vs. Carolina as well as game 1 vs. Clemson. So I'm assuming that's maybe where he gets 17-5. But, to be fair, Kadary played 37 mins vs. Rutgers, so you're saying Edwards alone is an 11-point swing? Kadary plays 28 at Clemson, so a few more minutes of kadary and Edwards playing more erases a 17-point deficit?

At the end of the day JB hates to be challenged and that's not the greatest look but I get where he's coming from most of the time. I mean, the 10 -ing games line is one we all laugh at but it's probably mostly true. And Gutierrez is correct to wonder why we didn't see more Edwards sooner at least vs. certain teams ... but I'm not sure where exactly he's coming up with 17-5.
Wonder what Gutierrez thinks about Kentucky's record.
 
I’m 6’6”, does my opinion count more?
Yes. Be careful though, if you really are 6'5.75" and rounded up to 6'6" you aren't as important and I won't care about your opinion as much.

Maybe we should all put our heights into our names? I would bet some of the loudest people on here are also the shortest and can be ignored.
 
Saying Jesse deserved to play earlier in the season is crazy. Jon Bol was the first big off the bench a number of times this season so he wasn’t even option 1 for bigs off the bench. Kadary is different as anyone with two functioning eyes could tell he should be getting more minutes earlier in the season. I don’t blame coach for wanting to show this kid up but it’s definitely not a good look.
 
I despise a good portion of the sports media nowadays. Jim Boeheim was a jerk to Matt Gutirruez. His height is completely irrelevant. What a jerk comment.
Doesn't change the fact the Gutierrez made it sound a hell of a lot different than what was actually said. Jerk comment sure, but in the greater context it wasn't necessarily the way Matt positioned it.
 
How does that question and comment make Gutierrez look bad? If being second guessed about basketball is so offensive to a coach, maybe he should take an anger management class or something.

I'm not asking to be a jerk, I genuinely don't see it.
I appreciate the reply - I'm not trying to be a jerk, either - reasonable minds can differ on this, for sure. For starters, here is my (admittedly amateur) transcription of the Q&A exchange after the UNC game that started all of this:

MG: Hey, Jim - just wanted to ask about... um, Jesse Edwards... against maybe the best frontcourt in the ACC... pretty, really productive night for him - was this something you feel he was capable of earlier in the year? Or did he need...

JB: Yeah, I would've... yeah, I didn't play him, but I thought he was ready then, I just purposely kept him out, Matt. What kind of question is that?

MG: (inaudible)... benefit from practice.

JB: What? He's still not ready, he's not ready, but he did, he... he hung in there and battled. They out-rebounded us 20 rebounds... I mean, yeah... he did, he did some good things... but, you know... he's gotta get stronger. And, you know, if he was ready early in the year, he would've been playing early in the year. We took this game out and got back in it and got the lead at halftime with the smaller lineup. That's the lineup that was effective, that got us the lead. But Jesse did some really good things and helped us. But, you know, he still... again, like I said the other day, I didn't expect him to play this year, I didn't think he was ready... um, I still don't. But, you know, we need him to go in there and do what he can do.


My read on the Q&A and the whole situation is this:

- JB has been pretty open about the fact that he does not think that any of the young bigs are 'ready' to contribute in a meaningful way this year. Anybody paying even a little bit of attention to SU basketball knows this, irrespective of whether you agree with him or not. So to then essentially ask JB the question 'do you think Jesse was ready to do this earlier in the year'... I mean, what did Gutierrez think JB's reply would be? It was a bit of a troll question, in my opinion, given the fact that JB has already answered this and made his position known throughout the season.

- After the game and the press conference... and after Gutierrez's in-game tweets that SU would probably have at least 3 more wins and already be in the Big Dance if JB had played Jesse the minutes that he deserved (he actually used the word deserved!)... Gutierrez went on to tweet that "It doesn't make sense that Edwards could be characterized as 'not ready'." So Gutierrez essentially doubled-down on his position that JB is mis-handling Jesse.

- My guess is that someone shared Gutierrez's tweets (both in-game and post-game) with JB, and JB took the opportunity to fire back at the criticism during last night's press-conference. Which I think is fair, by the way - if Gutierrez wants to second-guess JB's handling of the rotation and the minutes distribution, then he has opened himself up to criticism in return. But where JB crossed the line (in my opinion) was when he brought Gutierrez's height into the response. I think that was a small, petty thing to do - and it has now shifted the narrative into "JB attacks the media".

- I truly believe that just about any coach is going to bristle at the suggestion (from a reporter or anybody outside the program) that any player "deserves minutes". I think most coaches are going to come from a place that "minutes are earned". A guy like Tony Bennett probably handles the same issue with a bit more class, but JB is notoriously thin-skinned and defensive - and he went a different way.

Anyway, those are my thoughts - that's why I think both guys (Gutierrez and JB) come out of this looking bad.
 
I appreciate the reply - I'm not trying to be a jerk, either - reasonable minds can differ on this, for sure. For starters, here is my (admittedly amateur) transcription of the Q&A exchange after the UNC game that started all of this:

MG: Hey, Jim - just wanted to ask about... um, Jesse Edwards... against maybe the best frontcourt in the ACC... pretty, really productive night for him - was this something you feel he was capable of earlier in the year? Or did he need...

JB: Yeah, I would've... yeah, I didn't play him, but I thought he was ready then, I just purposely kept him out, Matt. What kind of question is that?

MG: (inaudible)... benefit from practice.

JB: What? He's still not ready, he's not ready, but he did, he... he hung in there and battled. They out-rebounded us 20 rebounds... I mean, yeah... he did, he did some good things... but, you know... he's gotta get stronger. And, you know, if he was ready early in the year, he would've been playing early in the year. We took this game out and got back in it and got the lead at halftime with the smaller lineup. That's the lineup that was effective, that got us the lead. But Jesse did some really good things and helped us. But, you know, he still... again, like I said the other day, I didn't expect him to play this year, I didn't think he was ready... um, I still don't. But, you know, we need him to go in there and do what he can do.


My read on the Q&A and the whole situation is this:

- JB has been pretty open about the fact that he does not think that any of the young bigs are 'ready' to contribute in a meaningful way this year. Anybody paying even a little bit of attention to SU basketball knows this, irrespective of whether you agree with him or not. So to then essentially ask JB the question 'do you think Jesse was ready to do this earlier in the year'... I mean, what did Gutierrez think JB's reply would be? It was a bit of a troll question, in my opinion, given the fact that JB has already answered this and made his position known throughout the season.

- After the game and the press conference... and after Gutierrez's in-game tweets that SU would probably have at least 3 more wins and already be in the Big Dance if JB had played Jesse the minutes that he deserved (he actually used the word deserved!)... Gutierrez went on to tweet that "It doesn't make sense that Edwards could be characterized as 'not ready'." So Gutierrez essentially doubled-down on his position that JB is mis-handling Jesse.

- My guess is that someone shared Gutierrez's tweets (both in-game and post-game) with JB, and JB took the opportunity to fire back at the criticism during last night's press-conference. Which I think is fair, by the way - if Gutierrez wants to second-guess JB's handling of the rotation and the minutes distribution, then he has opened himself up to criticism in return. But where JB crossed the line (in my opinion) was when he brought Gutierrez's height into the response. I think that was a small, petty thing to do - and it has now shifted the narrative into "JB attacks the media".

- I truly believe that just about any coach is going to bristle at the suggestion (from a reporter or anybody outside the program) that any player "deserves minutes". I think most coaches are going to come from a place that "minutes are earned". A guy like Tony Bennett probably handles the same issue with a bit more class, but JB is notoriously thin-skinned and defensive - and he went a different way.

Anyway, those are my thoughts - that's why I think both guys (Gutierrez and JB) come out of this looking bad.
There is a difference between second guessing, and just playing constantly into a narrative. Matt seems to work under the assumption that we should have played Jesse and Kadary more and we win more. Kadary provides a clearer picture to this being possible, but we also only look at the great stuff Kadary does. He had some early defensive assignment issues, offensively he is insanely capable, but has absolutely improved as the season progressed.

As for Jesse there is an equal chance he gets absolutely dominated in some of those games. He has done some nice things when given the chance, but you can't tell me he hasn't improved to put himself in position. He has also had some head scratching moments out there.

If Matt reported on the team in fact he deserves leeway. There is tons of conjecture, much of which is like most sports writers making huge assumptions that are presented as facts. Imagine that we have won 6 out of 8 with JB coaching, yet the line of questioning is about what happened prior to that. Basically using JB's recent success to argue he didn't coach well earlier in the year. Kind of strange.
 
A detailed and thoughtful reply.

I can see where you're coming from and as you said, reasonable minds can differ. I see it more as a case of Coach makes statements all year long, we see evidence to the contrary on the court, and reporter draws basketball related conclusions and asks probing questions accordingly.

My take is that if you want to be a public figure, you have to expect certain things, and if you get annoyed by something or someone, as a professional and the face of a high profile program, you ought to do better at handling it with a shred of poise and grace.

Either way, I appreciate the intelligent back and forth. Cheers!
 
1- why did Jim need to make it personal? He could have disagreed with what the guy wrote, but why does he have to make it personal?

2- that is what media does. He should ignore it. He has been a coach for damn near 50 years and still can’t ignore what some people say?

3- IMO he is mad because the media member was right. Look at the stats. Edwards and kadary have been a difference when they play and deserved more minutes.

4- I can’t stand how if you disagree or question Jim in this forum there is immediately a minority of individual's who start to say you hate him or hope Syracuse loses. We all come to this forum because we love Syracuse sports. I love sports. I watch sports all the time. Yes, I don’t coach it for a living but I believe I have a pretty good eye for everything that is going on. Just because I question things doesn’t all of a sudden mean I hate the coach. I am invested and we are invested. Just because I don’t follow in line and am a blind follower doesn’t mean that I love this university or coach any less. It is totally reasonable to still love the coach and acknowledge everything he has done for the university without being a blind follower. That is allowed.
 
Great win yesterday. Easily our best defensive game of the year. The guys really moved in the zone.
-AG is so trick or treat. But when he is not moving and sets his feet he is a pure shooter. That final three near the end of the shot clock when we took the air out of the ball was so unusual, it feels like we never get that bounce. He played with so much joy yesterday, it was fun to watch. I loved that lefty move off the glass and I continue to wonder why, with his athleticism and given how close defenders have to play him, he doesn't go to the hole more.
-I give Kadary a ton of credit. He showed serious stones doing what he did on one leg. Would like to see him finish more around the basket but I think added strength will help with that next year. One thing people haven't talked about on here much is his free throw shooting. He isn't scared to go to the line and despite barely bending his knees he usually makes them. We will never take that for granted.
-Buddy dropped 17 but he missed a bunch he doesn't normally miss and his defense was not as good on the perimeter as he was responsible for a number of open threes. I think fatigue played a big part in that as he played 39 minutes two days after playing 39 versus UNC. I think JB has to do a better job of giving him some rest, especially when a tv timeout is coming up. How much would they lose if Braswell got a couple of minutes to spell Buddy? You could move AG to the 2 and you would gain defensively overall.
-The insurrection day loss at home to Pitt is the killer. We really don't have any other what if losses where we blew the game. It feels like if we had won that game we might already been in or one win next week would clinch it.
-The JB shot at Gutierrez was lame. He should be above that but we know he isn't. To be fair Matt got carried away with his tweet. I don't think we are 3-4 wins behind where we should be, as I noted above we only have one close loss. But on the other hand maybe if Kadary had started we would not have gotten in so many deep holes and had a better chance in some of those games. As far as Jesse goes, it is worth noting that in the first UNC loss Jesse played 7 minutes with no boards. But the flip side of that is that he had been in mothballs and it is asking kid a lot to come in cold against the best rebounders in the conference. In the loss from hell against Pitt Jesse had a dnp and we got out rebounded 42-29.
-I hope we get Duke, beat them and clinch a bid. I think one win in Greensboro gives us a great shot to get in.
 
The mess of an early season with not many cupcakes and all the pauses was definitely a factor in making JBs job much tougher.

And I do remember Kadary really sucking wind after his dunk against Rutgers during the timeout. I don’t think JB was making that up or anything. And maybe it was a motivation technique to get Kadary to work harder. There’s so much stuff like that involved with a team that we don’t know.

But still...

Please. We struggled and should have lost to Bryant. Whats difficult playing cupcakes and at Rutgers when you aren't expected to win.

1 month of non conference vs 2 put him in a tough spot? Give me a break.
 
1- why did Jim need to make it personal? He could have disagreed with what the guy wrote, but why does he have to make it personal?

2- that is what media does. He should ignore it. He has been a coach for damn near 50 years and still can’t ignore what some people say?

3- IMO he is mad because the media member was right. Look at the stats. Edwards and kadary have been a difference when they play and deserved more minutes.

4- I can’t stand how if you disagree or question Jim in this forum there is immediately a minority of individual's who start to say you hate him or hope Syracuse loses. We all come to this forum because we love Syracuse sports. I love sports. I watch sports all the time. Yes, I don’t coach it for a living but I believe I have a pretty good eye for everything that is going on. Just because I question things doesn’t all of a sudden mean I hate the coach. I am invested and we are invested. Just because I don’t follow in line and am a blind follower doesn’t mean that I love this university or coach any less. It is totally reasonable to still love the coach and acknowledge everything he has done for the university without being a blind follower. That is allowed.
So-
you don't "Worship at JB's Altar" ?
 
Eh, I'm not sure either look that bad. Not sure if it was surly JB or wry JB -- subtle difference that I'm convinced very few posters here understand -- but the man has a point.

Kadary has played less than 15 mins twice on the season and we're 2-0 in those games (G'town/Bryant). Other than that he hasn't been below 15. In games where he's played between 15-19 mins, we're 3-3. So maybe we win the first Pitt game if he plays more (got routed in the second pitt game) or maybe the first carolina game? I guess there's a chance. Otherwise he played 20+ and we still lost several games where he played big mins -- 29 vs. Duke, 26 vs. Ga Tech, 28 at Clemson, 37 at Rutgers.

As far as Edwards -- certainly could make a case he should have played more but in his case it's more difficult to point to who comes off the floor.

Gutierrez, for his part, makes an interesting point. You get killed on the glass at Rutgers and vs. Carolina as well as game 1 vs. Clemson. So I'm assuming that's maybe where he gets 17-5. But, to be fair, Kadary played 37 mins vs. Rutgers, so you're saying Edwards alone is an 11-point swing? Kadary plays 28 at Clemson, so a few more minutes of kadary and Edwards playing more erases a 17-point deficit?

At the end of the day JB hates to be challenged and that's not the greatest look but I get where he's coming from most of the time. I mean, the 10 -ing games line is one we all laugh at but it's probably mostly true. And Gutierrez is correct to wonder why we didn't see more Edwards sooner at least vs. certain teams ... but I'm not sure where exactly he's coming up with 17-5.
Re: Rutgers

We were up by 3 with 5 minutes left. Also that was the game Buddy missed, and Joe was 1/8 from the field.

I don’t think Jesse changes that outcome, but a healthy Buddy probably does
 
Re: Rutgers

We were up by 3 with 5 minutes left. Also that was the game Buddy missed, and Joe was 1/8 from the field.

I don’t think Jesse changes that outcome, but a healthy Buddy probably does
I was thinking about that game last night. It really changed the trajectory of our season. We really should have won even without Buddy.

I don't remember the exact time and score situation but I do recall Kadary going for a putback instead of coming down with a rebound and feeling the game slipping away.

And that's not a shot at Kadary at all, he played very well that game given the circumstances. Just stating how close we were to winning that game when in reality Rutgers should have handled us based on how they were viewed at that point.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
175,222
Messages
5,339,707
Members
6,232
Latest member
BrysonTrple

Online statistics

Members online
344
Guests online
5,789
Total visitors
6,133


Top Bottom