QB situation going forward

[FreakTalksAboutSU]

The OL ain’t happening.

Shrader is fine.

Put a Brisly Estime and Etta Tawo on this team and we’re probably 7-3.

There’s no reason we can’t get at least one really fast WR that is a decent player, and either recruit and develop one relative stud(like Ishmael), or get a talented transfer that wants a bigger role like Etta Tawo.

I simply can’t believe the state of our WRs, given what we had in 16-17 - the early Babers years.

Yeah we will have to agree to disagree re Shrader. He does a lot of things right. But if we ever want to have a truly versatile offense, i can't see him being the guy to run it.

Lousville averaged, prior to yesterday, 275 yards passing allowed per game.

We had 46.

In a game we trailed from early Q1.

That's a problem. And it's not all everyone else.

I also reject the notion that there is no way at all to improve our OL. I'm not talking about having a top 10 OL. But this is ridiculous. Many many FCS teams have OLs good enough to allow for their QBs to pass the ball.

 

[OrangeDW]

Yeah we will have to agree to disagree re Shrader. He does a lot of things right. But if we ever want to have a truly versatile offense, i can't see him being the guy to run it.

Lousville averaged, prior to yesterday, 275 yards passing allowed per game.

We had 46.

In a game we trailed from early Q1.

That's a problem. And it's not all everyone else.

I also reject the notion that there is no way at all to improve our OL. I'm not talking about having a top 10 OL. But this is ridiculous.

He’s almost singlehandidly won us games or kept us in them. I’ll take it.

Our OL is probably going to be what it’s always been, even during our good years. Once in awhile the stars will align and we’ll have a bunch of veterans and it will be good. Most of the time it will range from weak to average. This year’s line has actually been decent for the most part.

*im amazed by some of the big picture comments people are making based solely on the Louisville game, as if the rest of this season didn’t happen.

 

[dollarbill44]

We don't use him correctly. Then again when we have plays he can make the WRs/TEs don't make the play. I think they are the bigger issue.

Shrader struggles getting anything on the ball throwing it outside the hashes. Accuracy there as well. Doesn't matter if it is at the LOS or deep. There have been a few times where that almost resulted in an INT. He throws the ball decent in the middle of the field. Yet our deep passes tend to be more along the sideline. We need more of Alford running that VA Tech pattern. Or Pena vs Clemson. Where were the passes to Jackson yesterday? How does your best WR have 1 catch for zero yards?

He throws the ball well on the run. Look at the throw to Benson. So why do we keep him in the pocket when we struggle to keep a pocket? It also makes it easier for him to get a big run (see FSU game). Yet we have gone away from it since then.

Teams are selling out to stop the run. Wouldn't logic dictate to expose the Safeties by calling some play action passes? It is criminal that we do not call any.

We had two weeks to come up with a plan for attacking Louisville and it seemed like we had no plan. It is inexcusable that we did not use that time to tweak the passing O to fit Shrader's strengths.

I think it's less a wr than it is a scheme proble, like you alluded to with the lack of deep balls down the middle. I just don't think the regular routes mesh well and they aren't always a good match for the down and distance, like running multiple deep routes on 3rd and 5 with the defense showing blitz.

 

[FreakTalksAboutSU]

*im amazed by some of the big picture comments people are making based solely on the Louisville game, as if the rest of this season didn’t happen.

So you are saying that Shrader in year 3 can be a guy who throws 30 times and can get 250 yards and facilitates a run game that can get us 150? A guy who when down 5 TDs can sling the ball 30-35 times?

When I think versatile thats what I think. Im not talking about which direction he or someone else runs?

That's fact and I always knew it. All that changed yesterday is I realized that a two headed offense that consists of two different runners does not make up for the lack of the ability to pass.

Maybe I am wrong. I dunno. Disheartening.

 

[OrangeDW]

So you are saying that Shrader in year 3 can be a guy who throws 30 times and can get 250 yards and facilitates a run game that can get us 150? A guy who when down 5 TDs can sling the ball 30-35 times?

When I think versatile thats what I think. Im not talking about which direction he or someone else runs?

That's fact and I always knew it. All that changed yesterday is I realized that a two headed offense that consists of two different runners does not make up for the lack of the ability to pass.

Maybe I am wrong. I dunno. Disheartening.

I’m saying I think Shrader in year 3 is a top half of the ACC QB. Which makes him better than most of the QBs we get and better comparatively than a lot of our positions.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Why do people think lamson is the savior? Would he not be the backup already since we have less then 4 games to go and he could redshirt still?

On paper, it would be pretty unusual to bump a guy that's been taking scout snaps all season to backup QB at this stage of the season when there have been players in front of him.

 

[Entropic]

Agree with this. GS is not a great thrower, but he’s not helped out at all by the receivers. In general, the WR corps is pretty bad. The only promising one is Alford but he is pretty green.

He always looks better on the bootleg and he's had more success with the 10 to 15 yard slants. I don't recall a single one yesterday. Why all the sideline passes? You don't beat a fast defense team by going to the sidelines.

 

[FreakTalksAboutSU]

I’m saying I think Shrader in year 3 is a top half of the ACC QB. Which makes him better than most of the QBs we get and better competitively than a lot of our positions.

We'll see.

It really worries me that we don't trust him to throw the ball into the end zone once on an "and goal" situation, or that we only throw 18 times in a game we trailed for 95% of. I get that there are other issues re personnel, but some of that has to come down to the QB. You can have the best running QB of all time but if he can't throw well enough to try to get you back into a game in a clear and obvious passing situation, thats just a problem

We'll see what happens.

 

[OrangeDW]

We'll see.

It really worries me that we don't trust him to throw the ball into the end zone once on an "and goal" situation, or that we only throw 18 times in a game we trailed for 95% of. I get that there are other issues re personnel, but some of that has to come down to the QB. You can have the best running QB of all time but if he can't throw well enough to try to get you back into a game in a clear and obvious passing situation, thats just a problem

We'll see what happens.

If he was a great running and passing QB….he wouldn’t be here in the first place.

 

[Ozcuse]

I find it more of a travesty that down 35 in the fourth quarter that we couldn’t give any of our backup QBs any run. I would have loved to see Lamson get a series. He can still redshirt. If Shrader is the best option, rest him and save some hits on the body for the last two games.

Wasn’t Shafer’s last straw the fact he left Dungey in a 41-10 game late in 4th quarter against Ville and he got injured?

Easily could have happened to Tucker or Shrader yesterday.

 

[Ozcuse]

We need a possession wr and a home run wr

I don’t recall a wr room at Syracuse so deficient. The nadir of GERG we had better wr options

Imagine Sales or lemon w this team? We would have 2 more wins easily. They need to figure out the wr room. Absent transfers this is the worst wr recruiting coaching staff (or worst coached team in wr ever)

The salt in the wound too is that we have both an inside and outside receiver’s coach and we have probably the worst receiving production in modern SU football.

Would have been real nice to have a special teams coach but no, two receiver coaches are so much more important.

 

[orangecuse]

People held up shafer keeping Dungey in late in a blowout and getting hurt as a reason to fire him. He kept both GS and tucker into the final whistle. Imagine what could have happened if tucker had gotten hurt. Why not let backups play when you are down 40 with 5 minutes to go

Honestly, for me, one of the most egregious things I've seen a head coach conduct. There has been a lot of questionable/situational decision making issues discussed here relative to Dino's grave lack of prowess in this area, but that one yesterday really takes the cake IMO.

 

[007]

Before the season, a lot of people were saying that it was deep. Granted, that included the one who bailed during the season, but there was a lot of buzz over it at the time. Some said it was the deepest ever.

We clearly have a lot of bodies, a number of whom will never see the field, but there is no proof that it is deep in terms of quality.

Rule of thumb (and I know you already know this): NEVER listen to 90% of the preseason hype around here.

The single most important room on the team is the QB room. We need to over recruit this position every cycle. Let the "best" rise to the top and attrition will take care of the numbers. I know that's easier said than done, but I think it needs to be part of the culture and philosophy, even at the cost of numbers at other positions. GS is QB1 and his playmaking ability has made a big difference, relative to our standard of making a difference anyway. But, this is a process and pholosophy that can never end at SU - find or develop the next QB1 now and hope that he can beat out Shrader for 2021-22 season. That's not meant in any way to be anti Shrader (I think we can win with him), it's about being pro program development.

To a lesser degree, but probably next in line, we need to continue to add quality depth and numbers to the OL. I know there are some very good posters who think we are ok here. I do not and I don't think the staff does either.

 

[Crusty]

Shrader is a work in progress. He is clearly a gifted runner and a lousy passer, which is why MSU moved him to WR. As we all know, he needs to get to be enough of a legitimate passing threat to make the run game flourish. However, that said, we need to start recruiting offensive linemen. Fo the life of me I don't understand how we can consistently develop D linemen and not O linemen. Someone needs to be able to see an O Line prospect when they bump into them on the recruiting trail. Sems obvious this position is either an afterthought or we are incompetent in scouting them. Yikes!

 

[storange]

Garret Shrader is the QB . End of story.

 

[AngryOtto]

The OL ain’t happening.

Shrader is fine.

Put a Brisly Estime and Etta Tawo on this team and we’re probably 7-3.

There’s no reason we can’t get at least one really fast WR that is a decent player, and either recruit and develop one relative stud(like Ishmael), or get a talented transfer that wants a bigger role like Etta Tawo.

I simply can’t believe the state of our WRs, given what we had in 16-17 - the early Babers years.

Goes back to whether DB would play them. Cooper is getting some run but I think it’s about his blocking ability.
Question. Is it that our wr are that bad or the fact that we do not have set plays called and make reads at the line impact the play of the wr.

 

[Cuse'91]

I'm all in on Justin Lamson.

 

[AngryOtto]

Shrader is a work in progress. He is clearly a gifted runner and a lousy passer, which is why MSU moved him to WR. As we all know, he needs to get to be enough of a legitimate passing threat to make the run game flourish. However, that said, we need to start recruiting offensive linemen. Fo the life of me I don't understand how we can consistently develop D linemen and not O linemen. Someone neds to be able to see an O Line prospect when they bump into them on the recruiting trial. Sems obvious this position is either an afterthought or we are incompetent in scouting them. Yikes!

Think last years Oline class was good. Schmidt has done a great job so far in his limited time. No development under Cav. Give Schmidt another spring and camp and I see this line much improved.

 

[OmahaCuse]

Losing Taj was big. We will have a hard time winning games where we need to pass. WR group will be better next year. Would not have beat anyone averaging 29 yards a punt

 

[sufandu]

Why do people think lamson is the savior? Would he not be the backup already since we have less then 4 games to go and he could redshirt still?

I haven't seen anyone claim he is a savior. However, some people that tend to know what they're talking about have heard he's good. No QB is going to be great unless we have guys to throw too. I believe if we had those, Shrader would look ok throwing the ball. Not great, but ok.

 

[djcon57]

So you are saying that Shrader in year 3 can be a guy who throws 30 times and can get 250 yards and facilitates a run game that can get us 150? A guy who when down 5 TDs can sling the ball 30-35 times?

if you are down 5 tds...is the qb really the thing we should be worried about?

 

[RandomGuy]

Think last years Oline class was good. Schmidt has done a great job so far in his limited time. No development under Cav. Give Schmidt another spring and camp and I see this line much improved.

Oline is dependent on developement. If Schmidt was our oline coach in 18? I think our last 3 years look different.

 

[sufandu]

if you are down 5 tds...is the qb really the thing we should be worried about?

I think if you're down 5 tds, there's a list that could include the qb. I think the guy that has made numerous plays to win games for us this year is down the list a bit.

 

[hoopsupstate]

We’ve had barely 100 yards passing the past TWO games COMBINED. That’s a big problem. We’re not winning ACC games with so little balance on offense. Shrader is a poor passer and our receivers are just plain bad. There’s no other way to say it. Dino has to bring in at least three quality receivers from the portal. The problem is what good receiver wants to come here when your quarterback can’t throw. Next year doesn’t look promising. We aren’t beating Purdue or Norte Dame, so we have to win four ACC games to be bowl eligible. I can’t see four wins next year in the conference. The beat goes on. I’ve said since DIno‘s been here his recruiting doesn’t measure up. He hasn’t recruited one quality receiver or quarterback since he’s been here. He inherited a couple and two transferred in. That’s not going to cut it. This is a sinking ship. Only 10 commits for next year and none will come in and make a difference next year. We are one again last in the Atlantic division. If anyone thinks we’re beating NCS or Pitt, they are delusional. Both games will be worse than yesterday.

 

[OmahaCuse]

We’ve had barely 100 yards passing the past TWO games COMBINED. That’s a big problem. We’re not winning ACC games with so little balance on offense. Shrader is a poor passer and our receivers are just plain bad. There’s no other way to say it. Dino has to bring in at least three quality receivers from the portal. The problem is what good receiver wants to come here when your quarterback can’t throw. Next year doesn’t look promising. We aren’t beating Purdue or Norte Dame, so we have to win four ACC games to be bowl eligible. I can’t see four wins next year in the conference. The beat goes on. I’ve said since DIno‘s been here his recruiting doesn’t measure up. He hasn’t recruited one quality receiver or quarterback since he’s been here. He inherited a couple and two transferred in. That’s not going to cut it. This is a sinking ship. Only 10 commits for next year and none will come in and make a difference next year. We are one again last in the Atlantic division. If anyone thinks we’re beating NCS or Pitt, they are delusional. Both games will be worse than yesterday.

Think some our young WRs Look good. Pena, Jackson, Williams (hurt), Alford. You have to recruit transfers by the way they don‘t just appear.