RE: Kansas, and their seeding

[two3zone]

That they did, and they would again this year.

Christ if they would I hope we don't face face them as we had trouble beating Pitt twice.

 

[Garbs]

Embiid's knees didn't seem to be a problem against Oklahoma when he dominated.


We do have NBA talent, but they have literally the number one and two pick in the draft.

They may be kids, but they're exceptional kids. Kansas has an unreal team, it's not really debatable.

I am not denying that, like I have said I think it is a good match up for us.

Also is 12 and 13 dominating? on their home court? Grant puts up those kind of numbers, I wouldn't say that is dominating for a kid who is potentially the number 1-2 pick.

 

[Alsacs]

we have a very tough frontcourt, Embiid is the real deal but his knees are an issue, and I think the zone will neutralize Wiggins and Embiid somewhat


we have NBA talent too


key word is future, for now they are 18-19 year old kids

Dude KU has 2 of the top 3 NBA draft picks on their team right now. Syracuse has a lottery PG, solid first rounder Grant, and a borderline first round pick C.J. Fair. I want nothing to do with talent before the Final Four. The difference between Self and Kentucky is he unlike Calipari develops and coaches his kids and doesn't rely solely on their talent to win games. Self has 10 STRAIGHT Big XII regular season titles and 3 of those times he did it with 5 new starters from the previous season. I don't think ANYBODY in the right mind who wasn't a Syracuse or JB fan would favor Syracuse over Kansas even at Madison Square Garden. Embiid right now is Serge Ibaka with the upside to become a Hakeem Olajuwon talent in the NBA and don't forget Andruw Wiggins and Perry Ellis our bigs Christmas and Keita would get foul trouble like the Duke game. If Syracuse doesn't win the NC my prediction is Kansas does.

 

[Garbs]

Dude KU has 2 of the top 3 NBA draft picks on their team right now. Syracuse has a lottery PG, solid first rounder Grant, and a borderline first round pick C.J. Fair. I want nothing to do with talent before the Final Four. The difference between Self and Kentucky is he unlike Calipari develops and coaches his kids and doesn't rely solely on their talent to win games. Self has 10 STRAIGHT Big XII regular season titles and 3 of those times he did it with 5 new starters from the previous season. I don't think ANYBODY in the right mind who wasn't a Syracuse or JB fan would favor Syracuse over Kansas even at Madison Square Garden. Embiid right now is Serge Ibaka with the upside to become a Hakeem Olajuwon talent in the NBA and don't forget Andruw Wiggins and Perry Ellis our bigs Christmas and Keita would get foul trouble like the Duke game. If Syracuse doesn't win the NC my prediction is Kansas does.

you keep ignoring my point, it is a good match up for us

you know like Pitt always used to dominate us, did Pitt have better talent? no

 

[Alsacs]

you keep ignoring my point, it is a good match up for us

you know like Pitt always used to dominate us, did Pitt have better talent? no

The most talented team in college basketball which can get us into foul trouble is not a good matchup. Pitt plays a slow pace and passes well. Kansas has more talent than I want to play before the Final Four.

 

[BuffOrange]

For some reason I remember Gottlieb going into great deal a few yrs ago on how Richmond was a matchup nightmare for St. Mary's in the 1st round. Spiders got blitzed. Now say what you will about our trolling friend Dougie but I think he knows X's & O's pretty well...

In both '11 and '13 some crazy stuff happened in close losses to Marquette in their building - miracle shot clock expiring 3's in '11, insane FT discrep in '13...
So were they a bad matchup because they beat us or a good matchup because they needed breaks to win a nailbiter at home?
The narrative obviously changed based on what happened in the rematch.

I do think matchup problems exist but I think people overestimate their ability to forecast them. I watch a lot of hoops and I know I can't do it. And I know smarter people than me can't do it either.

 

[kirbivore]

I feel like were in the age of affirmative action regarding mid majors (please don't take this as an attack or promotion of real life affirmative action).

These teams are getting judged on a far different scale due to their weakness in scheduling. If I'm a mid major at this point, I schedule maybe one tough game all year OOC. Especially if I'm a "name" mid major like gonzaga, Wichita, VCU,UConn.

The idea of operating like umass or Memphis once did just seems counter productive. Why risk a couple losses when getting only 1 win will validate your whole season.

That was the Boise St. strategy in football

 

[Marsh01]

I am not denying that, like I have said I think it is a good match up for us.

Also is 12 and 13 dominating? on their home court? Grant puts up those kind of numbers, I wouldn't say that is dominating for a kid who is potentially the number 1-2 pick.

Dominating in the sense that he doesnt have to score 15 points a game with the offensive firepower on that team. Plus he blocks a ton of shots as well.

 

[cusetown1]

The pundits will still call them an underdog even with a 1 next to their name. I hope they catch like a 7 seeded Kentucky and get smoked out of the building.

Is it really an upset if they lose in the second round game to a Pitt type team?

Kentucky would not beat Wichita state.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Embiids biggest issue is staying on the court. He's like Rak in that he's going to challenge every shot and hasn't really learned to pick his battles yet. Smart players can get him in trouble and quickly. He's a much better basketball player than Rak and has all-world potential, but he's not there yet. He's going #1 in the draft because he's a 7 footer with excellent athleticism.

Any good team scares me, but I'm not worried that SU can't hang with any of them. SU/KU would come down to a 56-54 slugfest. SU's defense can keep them in the game against anyone.

 

[Chris02M]

Louisville going to have to run the table including conference tourney to get near a 2 since there a 5 right now

 

[kirbivore]

Embiids biggest issue is staying on the court. He's like Rak in that he's going to challenge every shot and hasn't really learned to pick his battles yet. Smart players can get him in trouble and quickly. He's a much better basketball player than Rak and has all-world potential, but he's not there yet. He's going #1 in the draft because he's a 7 footer with excellent athleticism.

Any good team scares me, but I'm not worried that SU can't hang with any of them. SU/KU would come down to a 56-54 slugfest. SU's defense can keep them in the game against anyone.

If Kansas plays Duke again in the tourney Embid will get 2 fouls under 5 mins just like Okafor did. The refs protect Duke by fouling out the other teams big guys.

 

[two3zone]

Kentucky would not beat Wichita state.

Until Wichita plays somebody I'm going to disagree.

 

[Briancuse]

Until Wichita plays somebody I'm going to disagree.

Do you still feel that way after tonight?

 

[Lawless]

the 2 teams i really dont wanna see in our bracket is kansas and louisville. i hope louisville plays themselves above the 4/5 line, my nightmare is a sweet 16 matchup with them. im convinced we're gonna see uconn or louisville on our side of bracket.

I think the East Region is going to look like the Big East Tournament. A potential old rival every round after the first.

 

[two3zone]

Do you still feel that way after tonight?

Yes, remind me who Wichita State played this year again. Who would have Kentucky lost to on their schedule? How many different ACC teams would be undefeated with that schedule? How many Big 10 teams would be undefeated with that schedule? Sorry, they're a joke and it's disgusting that they're ranked number two and most likely a one seed at this point. If they lose one game the rest of this season they should be out of the top 10, they're conference blows.

 

[jncuse]

Yes, remind me who Wichita State played this year again. Who would have Kentucky lost to on their schedule? How many different ACC teams would be undefeated with that schedule? How many Big 10 teams would be undefeated with that schedule? Sorry, they're a joke and it's disgusting that they're ranked number two and most likely a one seed at this point. If they lose one game the rest of this season they should be out of the top 10, they're conference blows.

As I mentioned in another thread,

11 teams in the current top 25 have lost to a sub 100 RPI team (a total of 16 games)
8 of the other 13 have lost to sub 50 teams or worse.

Top 25 teams lose to lesser teams fairly frequently. Do you need any more evidence then tonight?

Penn St, Houston, and Duquesne won games vs top 25 teams tonight.

Why would these losses stop against a different schedule (of sub 50 games) with similar schedule strength?

NOTE:
1. This is merely an argument against the point that a whole bunch of teams would be undefeated with the Shockers schedule.
2. This is not a claim that Wichita St deserves a #1 seed.
3. This is not a claim that Wichita St would be near undefeated in a power conference... but they would be permitted some losses to be considered a #1 or #2.

 

[two3zone]

As I mentioned in another thread, 11 teams in the current top 25 have lost to a sub 100 RPI team (a total of 16 games) 8 of the other 13 have lost to sub 50 teams or worse. Top 25 teams lose to lesser teams fairly frequently. Do you need any more evidence then tonight? Penn St, Houston, and Duquesne won games vs top 25 teams tonight. Why would these losses stop against a different schedule (of sub 50 games) with similar schedule strength? NOTE: 1. This is merely an argument against the point that a whole bunch of teams would be undefeated with the Shockers schedule. 2. This is not a claim that Wichita St deserves a #1 seed. 3. This is not a claim that Wichita St would be near undefeated in a power conference... but they would be permitted some losses to be considered a #1 or #2.

I understand all of that, my argument is them playing Kentucky in the tournament.

 

[CaptainJ]

FWIW, if you take coaches at their word, Bill Self said he thinks the Shockers deserve the #1 if they run the table. About them meeting in the same region he says, "I would say this: If that were to happen and both teams met in the tournament, it would mean both teams have done quite well to get to that game," Self said. "But I'm not the least bit concerned or consumed by this."

And to those who think the Shockers weren't trying for a tougher schedule:
That would be fine with Wichita State coach Gregg Marshall, who told The Associated Press earlier this season that he offered what amounts to a two-for-one proposition: one game in Lawrence, one in Kansas City and one in Wichita. The suggestion, he said, was met by crickets. http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bas...s-thinks-wichita-state-shockers-get-no-1-seed


The link also has a video with Seth Greenberg giving his 4 number 1 seeds, which include the Shockers. You may be shocked, pun intended, to see who he has them ranked ahead of. To his defense, he brings up Baye Moussa Keita as a hero. Who would have ever thought you'd here that when someone was making their #1 seed picks? I seriously was almost in tears(in a good way). I wonder if BMK himself ever imagined that? He also mentions a 7 man rotation being cool for the NCAA tournament. While I think this is an awesome thread, even Seth's picks are a bit premature. We will have more answers soon enough, and may not need to rack our brains as hard as we are right now though. I think the video and the article cover a lot of what's being discussed here and things come out in favor of the Shockers to a neutral observer.

As for my personal thoughts, I want no part of Kansas before the Final 4.

 

[690West]

What's your basis for this?

Last year...oh wait

 

[Alsacs]

I think in my opinion if Syracuse, Duke, Kansas, Arizona, Florida, Wisconsin, Michigan State all played Wichita State's schedule they would have at most 1 loss. I don't think Wichita State's resume is worthy of a 1 seed. Wichita State could win the NC, but they should be judged by whom they have played and beaten. Gregg Marshall did not challenge that team enough in the non-conference to justify a 1 seed. Kansas is the best team in the country IMO and come tournament time I hope we avoid them as long as possible, Kansas isn't unbeatable I just prefer not play them unless its a rematch of the 2003 NC game in Dallas.

 

[jncuse]

Of the brackets entered for the bracket matrix yesterday, I was surprised to see how many people had Kansas over Syracuse (albeit some on the matrix are not really experts on the topic).

Of the 30 submissions yesterday, #1 seeds as follows:
Arizona 30
Florida 30
Wichita St 25
Syracuse 19
Kansas 12
Wisconsin 3
Duke 1

Let's assume Kansas wins out, and given their body of work (and amazing SOS) the committee ships Wichita St instead. The following scenario is not totally out of the question:

#1 West - Arizona
#1 South - Florida
#1 Midwest - Kansas
#1 East - Wichita St
#2 East - Syracuse

Would people be pissed that we did not get that #1 or more happy that we didn't get it and essentially drew Wichita St as our #1/#2?

 

[Frozen]

#1 West - Arizona
#1 South - Florida
#1 Midwest - Kansas
#1 East - Wichita St
#2 East - Syracuse

Would people be pissed that we did not get that #1 or more happy that we didn't get it and essentially drew Wichita St as our #1/#2?

I would be ok with this.

 

[Knicks411]

I think in my opinion if Syracuse, Duke, Kansas, Arizona, Florida, Wisconsin, Michigan State all played Wichita State's schedule they would have at most 1 loss.

I get what you're saying, and you're probably right, but this argument is tougher to make for us when we're sitting with a home loss to BC.

Would people be pissed that we did not get that #1 or more happy that we didn't get it and essentially drew Wichita St as our #1/#2?

Without knowing who the 3/4 etc were; this wouldn't really bother me too much.

 

[jncuse]

I would be ok with this.

I did want to add that I don't think its realistic as of today - we are a #1 right now, and the 11 of 30 that do not have us as a #1 are wrong. But if we have a few slip ups down the stretch I guess it could occur.