Realistically, who's coming our way?

[billsin01]

If you're a big time recruit, would you commit to Syracuse for next year?

Are you playing over Battle.. No
Are you playing over Mali (if he stays).. No
Are you playing over Lydon.. No
Are you playing over Roberson.. No
Are you playing over Chukwu.. Probably not

Then you have to fight it out with Howard, Moyer and Coleman for playing time off the bench.

If Mali comes back, that team is stacked.

Now, what I do think hurts us, is JB's short bench. If we went deeper than 7.5-8 (that's what she said) then maybe we would get a higher ranked recruit who wants to play some in his freshman year. As of right now, a guy like Taurean Thompson, isn't seeing court time until his Soph/Junior year, if he doesn't get recruited over.

I'm not entirely sure I agree with either of these points. The first point I understand in terms of guaranteed PT but if you are ready to play, JB has generally gotten you on the floor. I mean, MCW played 10 mpg in 26 games despite a pretty loaded backcourt of two vets (Scoop/Triche) and a future NBA guy in Waiters in 11-12. I know this could open a can of worms but I"m not sure there are many frosh who've been ready to contribute at a high level but haven't gotten on the floor? And, to further the point, it's possible to be an NBA 1st-rounder while averaging 15 mpg these days.

On the second point, I think JB will go deeper, I just don't think he worries about being on the thin side. In three straight years from 10-11 to 12-13 we played at least 9 guys 10 mpg for the season (Fab, technically, was at 9.9 in his miserable frosh season). In 11-12, KJ was the only one to average more than 26 mpg.

So I'm not sure either of the points is entirely fair. I think JB is very comfortable with 7.5 and that, could in theory, give a top recruit some concerns if he doesn't land in the starting lineup right away. I also think there are some guys on this roster who could make it tough to earn minutes (if Roberson takes a good step forward building off his tourney, if Richardson/Lydon return and improve, if Franky locks down one guard spot, if Chukwu lives up to what people hope he will ...).

So do those things hurt our '16 recruiting? Possibly, but I'm not sure either that JB is anywhere near as rigid in his PT decisions as people think.

 

[RF2044]

In terms of next year, that window is just about closed. Taurean's ship has sailed, so now it's likely Dembele and a grad transfer, if anything, to round out next years roster. The big class we should be looking at is 2017. Lots of possibilities there.

Good post above, but I disagree with the comment I highlighted. I'm certain that we are recruiting names that haven't been suggested on this board.

 

[stuckinbig11]

Nah.

I'm expecting us to fill all three with quality players. Just because there isn't chatter on the board doesn't mean that recruiting isn't happening behind the scenes--possibly with prospects the board isn't keyed in on. .

it would be stupid to show their hand

 

[cuseguy]

I think this is generally true, but only to a point. We absolutely get enough talent in the NE to compete with the blue bloods. We show that year in and year out. But, I think, the issue is a bit narrower. When is the last time we secured a major recruit, beloved by all talent evaluators as one of the best players in their class? Melo? I do agree that it's not worth complaining over, but man would I love to grab a top-5 generational player one of these years. Give me one year of a Wiggins, Anthony Davis, etc. to complement our already strong NE recruiting. The fanbase and this board would be out of their minds.

Nova proved that you can win it all without a marquee player. But it certainly helps to have one. It's not a coincidence that we won our NC with a supreme talent.

Our problem lately is that we recruit good, sometimes very good, players that provide us success, even Final 4s, but they leave after a year.

 

[billsin01]

I'm honestly surprised we do as well as we do. TV exposure, now ACC, HOF coach, Dome, (though I firmly believe it is a morgue more often than not, fans too far from court, etc.) helps but who the hell would want to come here and play zone 24/7?! Especially to prepare them for the next level? Maybe that's why we seem to have so many players who lack fundamentals and basketball IQ, generally. (Insert rim shot).

I agree with this -- especially on the Dome -- to a large extent but the one thing I can't quite figure out is why playing zone for a year or two seems to make guys awful defenders on the NBA level. These kids are, for all intents and purposes, professional basketball players before they ever get to the hill for the most part -- high school basketball factories, aau, year-round play, etc. -- and presumably they are playing M2M the vast majority of that time.

Add to that the fact that you still have to play defense in the zone -- it's certainly not just standing around -- and the fact that a good chunk of defense is effort and attentiveness, and I struggle to figure out what happens that makes kids such awful M2M defenders at the next level.

My theory is that, while the zone gets dinged for it, it has more to do with the type of player JB loves -- long, lean. Those don't seem to hit as often at the NBA level where explosiveness seems to reign. Guys like Wallace and Hak were awesome college players but aren't super quick.

Anyway, just kind of strange, IMO.

 

[Jasoncuse]

If you're a big time recruit, would you commit to Syracuse for next year?

Are you playing over Battle.. No
Are you playing over Mali (if he stays).. No
Are you playing over Lydon.. No
Are you playing over Roberson.. No
Are you playing over Chukwu.. Probably not

Then you have to fight it out with Howard, Moyer and Coleman for playing time off the bench.

If Mali comes back, that team is stacked.

Now, what I do think hurts us, is JB's short bench. If we went deeper than 7.5-8 (that's what she said) then maybe we would get a higher ranked recruit who wants to play some in his freshman year. As of right now, a guy like Taurean Thompson, isn't seeing court time until his Soph/Junior year, if he doesn't get recruited over.

This is why I think we should be targeting traditional transfers. Have that guy or guys sit out a year, and then be ready to contribute when the PT opens up. Any frontcourt player that is transferring should see SU as a major opportunity, since Roberson, Coleman, Lydon (most likely) and maybe even Chukwu would be gone by the time they are eligible to play.

There are no big time recruits available to SU at this point, so that's not what we're looking for. Either projects or transfers. Thompson is more project than someone that can play right away, and he's not seeing much time at a comparable school any time soon either. If he goes to a UConn or Seton Hall, he could probably play a bit more right away, but not a ton.

 

[Jasoncuse]

We need shooting. We don't have enough shooting to win a NC.
Richardson/Lydon are the only known shooters on the roster right now.
Howard/Battle are unknowns.
Roberson/Chukwu/Coleman/Moyer aren't shooters.

JB needs to bring in 2 shooting threats and then Dembele kid would be great.

I don't see how this isn't obvious. We lost 1 shooting threat in Gbinije and another kid who shot a lot in Cooney.

We need shooting. Mullins and a wing shooting threat are what we need.

Exactly. If we're going to prioritize anything at this point, it's adding a perimeter threat. Assuming Mali returns, we still only have him and Lydon as above average threats. Battle and Howard may surprise, but I'm not counting on them to be good shooters. We need one more threat, at least. That's why Mullins would be a great addition, since he can handle the ball a little bit, shoot well from the outside and is a bigger guard for the zone...

 

[Jasoncuse]

Nova proved that you can win it all without a marquee player. But it certainly helps to have one. It's not a coincidence that we won our NC with a supreme talent.

Our problem lately is that we recruit good, sometimes very good, players that provide us success, even Final 4s, but they leave after a year.

Nova had about 5-6 guys who are very, very good college players. Maybe not NBA talent, but excellent for the college game. If you don't get the marquee talent, having a plethora of good, versatile players is the next best thing. We haven't had the marquee player, nor have we had the depth of very good players, most notably on the offensive end.

 

[RF2044]

Nova had about 5-6 guys who are very, very good college players. Maybe not NBA talent, but excellent for the college game. If you don't get the marquee talent, having a plethora of good, versatile players is the next best thing. We haven't had the marquee player, nor have we had the depth of very good players, most notably on the offensive end.

We've had that plenty of times in recent seasons, notably 2010 and 2012.

In 2013, we followed the Villanova model--undersized team that played great defense, versatility, etc.

I agree that we haven't had great depth since then.

 

[Roll Cuse]

from what I can tell cuse has offered #3, #4, #5, #12, #14, and #23, on espns top 60 for '17, plus #41 Quade and DCR who I dont see in top 60 but like Quade is 4 star I believe. And only 1 of these guys is really out of that typical recruiting area and thats Porter. So I find it tough to complain about them not going after these big fish, or staying regional.

That said are any of these guys even really going to be projected to be in Orange? Everytime we see Cal comes east and visits one everyone on here basically assumes we lost out. So perhaps The staff realizes this and goes harder on the Quades of the world they think they have a more legit shot at. I def think they have decent shots at the NY Guys Richards and Diallo especially but we will see...

If there ever was a year for cuse to land multiple guys who plan on 1 and done and want to showcase themselves '17 is it. might have basically howard and moyer back.

 

[Jasoncuse]

We've had that plenty of times in recent seasons, notably 2010 and 2012.

In 2013, we followed the Villanova model--undersized team that played great defense, versatility, etc.

I agree that we haven't had great depth since then.

Yeah, I was thinking more the past 4-5 years. We've been 3 on 5 or 4 on 5 way too often...

 

[Dave85]

Lydon being expected to be the primary scoring threat concerns me. He's a great shooter and finished well inside but showed little ability to create for himself, and that's not one of those things we can just expect to develop during the off season. Right now he seems much more comfortable in a sidekick role.

Right now, but next season he will have to step up. I think the offense will go through Battle or Howard with kick outs or off-screens to Lydon. Lydon has to be a credible 3-point threat next season to make up the lost production from TC and G. Battle or Howard will have to be able to drive to the rim. Battle driving to the rim should be his best part of his game. Maybe Moyer will be able to make credible contributions also.

I'm still not 100% sure Malachi is coming back. If Malachi is coming back it takes a lot of pressure away from Lydon having to step up. Coleman and Roberson will be about the same. Paschal is probably not going to contribute much on offense.

Battle driving to the rim and Lydon making 3's is going to be a big part of our offense. I think our ability to drive to the rim 2015-16 was just okay. I think if Battle can bring it then it will really help us. Plus Howard and Battle should be able to create some transition fast-break offense also.

 

[Jasoncuse]

from what I can tell cuse has offered #3, #4, #5, #12, #14, and #23, on espns top 60 for '17, plus #41 Quade and DCR who I dont see in top 60 but like Quade is 4 star I believe. And only 1 of these guys is really out of that typical recruiting area and thats Porter. So I find it tough to complain about them not going after these big fish, or staying regional.

That said are any of these guys even really going to be projected to be in Orange? Everytime we see Cal comes east and visits one everyone on here basically assumes we lost out. So perhaps The staff realizes this and goes harder on the Quades of the world they think they have a more legit shot at. I def think they have decent shots at the NY Guys Richards and Diallo especially but we will see...

If there ever was a year for cuse to land multiple guys who plan on 1 and done and want to showcase themselves '17 is it. might have basically howard and moyer back.

There's more than enough high end players every year in our traditional recruiting area from New England to the DMV area. We just haven't brought in the highest end talent, losing it to Duke, UK, etc...

 

[Jasoncuse]

Right now, but next season he will have to step up. I think the offense will go through Battle or Howard with kick outs or off-screens to Lydon. Lydon has to be a credible 3-point threat next season to make up the lost production from TC and G. Battle or Howard will have to be able to drive to the rim. Battle driving to the rim should be his best part of his game. Maybe Moyer will be able to make credible contributions also.

I'm still not 100% sure Malachi is coming back. If Malachi is coming back it takes a lot of pressure away from Lydon having to step up. Coleman and Roberson will be about the same. Paschal is probably not going to contribute much on offense.

Battle driving to the rim and Lydon making 3's is going to be a big part of our offense. I think our ability to drive to the rim 2015-16 was just okay. I think if Battle can bring it then it will really help us. Plus Howard and Battle should be able to create some transition fast-break offense also.

Lydon will be much improved next year. We saw him scratching the surface with a hook shot here and there, driving and trying to finish and so on. He'll add some strength and improve his ball handling this summer, so I expect him to be a lot more versatile and able to finish more consistently next year. He's going to be tough to stop on pump fakes, and I fully expect some monster throw downs next year.

 

[Dave85]

Nova proved that you can win it all without a marquee player. But it certainly helps to have one. It's not a coincidence that we won our NC with a supreme talent.

Our problem lately is that we recruit good, sometimes very good, players that provide us success, even Final 4s, but they leave after a year.

If Triche did not get that bogus charge call we could be having a completely different conversation right now (maybe irrelevant to this conversation but it still bothers me). I think our recruiting has been fine accept Kaleb just did not work out. If we have a one true descent PG and Daigne showed up we would have been in terrific shape. I think our team is very close to making a credible NC run.

 

[phil77]

We are recruiting on the fringe. We aren't getting the top blue chip recruits like Melo anymore than can change your fortunes. What we are getting is the players just under that. Like a MCW, Ennis, McCullough, Grant, Richardson (maybe) just in the last couple of years. The problem we are having is that these guys blow up or show major flashes in there 1 year here then bolt.

So if you look at this year title game...

Nova recruits the kids just below us and gets them to stay 3-4 years.
Blue Bloods recruit kids above us and can have more success because they are getting the elite talent.

We are kind of stuck in the middle. Get kids that if have a really good season will be on NBA radar but they aren't good enough to win national titles. IMO


Next year if everyone comes back is a real shot with a stacked team assume health.

Battle/Howard
Richardson/Howard
Lydon/Moyer
Roberson/Moyer
Coleman/Chukwu

But I would assume that a major chunk of that team will leave after next year. Battle, Richardson, Lydon. Roberson, Coleman will all be out basically our entire starting 5.

 

[Dave85]

Lydon will be much improved next year. We saw him scratching the surface with a hook shot here and there, driving and trying to finish and so on. He'll add some strength and improve his ball handling this summer, so I expect him to be a lot more versatile and able to finish more consistently next year. He's going to be tough to stop on pump fakes, and I fully expect some monster throw downs next year.

I agree. Can you imagine Lydon making the same level of improvement as Dion did going from freshmen to sophomore year. That's kind of my expectation. I'm expecting Lydon to be absolute monster next year. He's always been a lot more stronger than he looks.

 

[Dave85]

We are recruiting on the fringe. We aren't getting the top blue chip recruits like Melo anymore than can change your fortunes. What we are getting is the players just under that. Like a MCW, Ennis, McCullough, Grant, Richardson (maybe) just in the last couple of years. The problem we are having is that these guys blow up or show major flashes in there 1 year here then bolt.

So if you look at this year title game...

Nova recruits the kids just below us and gets them to stay 3-4 years.
Blue Bloods recruit kids above us and can have more success because they are getting the elite talent.

We are kind of stuck in the middle. Get kids that if have a really good season will be on NBA radar but they aren't good enough to win national titles. IMO

I'm not sure I agree with you on this and here is why:

Us: http://www.verbalcommits.com/schools/syracuse

Villanova: http://www.verbalcommits.com/schools/villanova

I'd say our recruiting is about the same. Our problems came from TE leaving after one year, Kaleb washing out, and Diagne not showing up. TE leaving is kind of out of our control but Kaleb and Diagne were just bad luck.

 

[Ryand877]

Good post above, but I disagree with the comment I highlighted. I'm certain that we are recruiting names that haven't been suggested on this board.

I hope we are indeed looking at other people not being discussed on the board. If Malachi goes, we only have two guards on the team if we don't land a transfer. There is no way we can play all year with only two guards.

 

[Jasoncuse]

I'm not sure I agree with you on this and here is why:

Us: http://www.verbalcommits.com/schools/syracuse

Villanova: http://www.verbalcommits.com/schools/villanova

I'd say our recruiting is about the same. Our problems came from TE leaving after one year, Kaleb washing out, and Diagne not showing up. TE leaving is kind of out of our control but Kaleb and Diagne were just bad luck.

We've gotten more 4+ star players than them, but also more guys who are already gone. They've recruited better offensive players. We've recruited for the zone. There's a pretty big difference in style, philosophy and on-paper recruiting successes that's it's not an easy comparison between the 2 schools.

 

[HOFCeluck]

I think this is generally true, but only to a point. We absolutely get enough talent in the NE to compete with the blue bloods. We show that year in and year out. But, I think, the issue is a bit narrower. When is the last time we secured a major recruit, beloved by all talent evaluators as one of the best players in their class? Melo?

I do agree that it's not worth complaining over, but man would I love to grab a top-5 generational player one of these years. Give me one year of a Wiggins, Anthony Davis, etc. to complement our already strong NE recruiting. The fanbase and this board would be out of their minds.

Well, those players you speak of, the Melos, Durants, etc only one comes up every few years or so.

 

[Dave85]

We've gotten more 4+ star players than them, but also more guys who are already gone. They've recruited better offensive players. We've recruited for the zone. There's a pretty big difference in style, philosophy and on-paper recruiting successes that's it's not an easy comparison between the 2 schools.

I agree but it's not a huge difference. I think we had too bad luck issues on two recruits. I think we are very close to having a NC caliber team.

 

[Francis03]

The vibe I'm getting from Francis is that JB is mailing it in, especially since he won't be around to coach any of these guys. Sucks.

That's definitely not the vibe that I was trying to send. As I stated on my last pod, JB may not be the best or all that interested in hunting down talent all over the country, but when it comes to getting recruits on the campus not too many has had a high success rate in closing on those recruits like JB. At this point as long as the assistants are presenting JB with enough quality talent that doesn't require him to fly out the eastern time zone, he'll then take an active role to do his best Mariano Rivera impression. Sure I wish that he would be more active in trying to fight for elite talent that are out of the region like Mike Porter, but JB has stated that he doesn't need to do that anymore. Obviously I don't agree with limiting ourselves like that but JB is free to think that way, so it is what it is. He spent most of last week on the road recruiting in NJ/PA, and is expected to do the same this week. Doesn't look like somebody that is ready to mail it in after saying how energized he was after the UNC game. I just wouldn't expect to see him change his approach in recruiting more nationally now.

 

[HOFCeluck]

That's definitely not the vibe that I was trying to send. As I stated on my last pod, JB may not be the best or all that interested in hunting down talent all over the country, but when it comes to getting recruits on the campus not too many has had a high success rate in closing on those recruits like JB. At this point as long as the assistants are presenting JB with enough quality talent that doesn't require him to fly out the eastern time zone, he'll then take an active role to do his best Mariano Rivera impression. Sure I wish that he would be more active in trying to fight for elite talent that are out of the region like Mike Porter, but JB has stated that he doesn't need to do that anymore. Obviously I don't agree with limiting ourselves like that but JB is free to think that way, so it is what it is. He spent most of last week on the road recruiting in NJ/PA, and is expected to do the same this week. Doesn't look like somebody that is ready to mail it in after saying how energized he was after the UNC game. I just wouldn't expect to see him change his approach in recruiting more nationally now.

At the risk of bringing the wrath of the Townies down upon myself I do think it's a bad look if Cal, Self, Izzo, and Mike Hopkins come watch a recruits AAU game.

But I can also acknowledgeme that this philosophy has worked for us.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

JB is the most competitive guy alive. And he loves Syracuse basketball. He isn't mailing it in. By the way, did we mail it in last year with Mali and Lydon?

"Competitive," mentally? Maybe. But no one at his age puts out the same effort physically as they did 10, 20, 30 years earlier. No one is doubting his 'wanting' to win. But what's he doing about it?