Realistically, who's coming our way?

[dasher]

"Competitive," mentally? Maybe. But no one at his age puts out the same effort physically as they did 10, 20, 30 years earlier. No one is doubting his 'wanting' to win. But what's he doing about it?

Would you agree that Mali and Tyler Lydon were excellent recruits last year? Would you agree that Moyer and Battle along with a 7-2 center, are at least on paper excellent additions for next year? What is the problem?

 

[br801]

"Competitive," mentally? Maybe. But no one at his age puts out the same effort physically as they did 10, 20, 30 years earlier. No one is doubting his 'wanting' to win. But what's he doing about it?

I know, I know. If only his competitiveness translated into some tangible results on the court.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

I do think it's realistic to wonder why we can't seem to get a Top 10 guy. There's only 4 teams in the entire country who we have a legit recruiting disadvantage to and that's UK, KU, UNC and Duke. Just speaking on a national scale and no other factors involved, that's it, those are the only schools that we would be at a disadvantage recruiting against yet we can't seal the deal on those guys. I know we recruit to a system and recruit very, very well but it could be better and maybe should be a little better.. The fact we only play 7-8 at most hurts us here too with guys in the 25-75 range who may be on the fence.

That being said, I really, REALLY, like the trajectory of our recruiting and hope it continues under Hop because like you pointed out, last years class, in hindsight, was a monster. Battle, Moyer, Chukwu (transfer) is looking to be another monster class as well. These are NBA caliber guys who fit our system. Can't ask for much more than that.

I 'liked' and agree with most of this, but there are multiple reasons why. Any one or more can be applicable to any individual recruit:
• we play a 'non-pro' defense. Effective or not, it's not the best prep for the NBA. Even if it's not an actual issue, it's a perceptual issue.
• JB is retiring, and no one knows how Hopkins will perform as HC. A top 20 kid can afford to be selective, and he'll take the known over the unknown.
• Media always plays up the 'it's cold up there' thing, making it sound perpetually miserable, climate-wise.
• Media constantly harping on the fact that we play the 'slowest pace in the league.' Defensively, the zone makes teams eat clock to get shots. Not a real issue offensively for us, but the talking heads don't make that distinction.
• We 'only play 7 guys.' A kid wants to know he's starting or definitely will get off the bench. Shouldn't be an issue for a top 20 kid, but if you come in better than an upperclassman, the incumbent is still prolly going to start. There has to be a clear opening at your position. Timing?

Those 4 schools really are sucking up most of the top 20. Those they don't get seem to go where there are 'special connections,' and unless we are playing that game or luck into a geographic happenstance, we just aren't in the mix. Hoping Hopkins considers an outsider for the staff, just for 'recruiting reach.'

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Would you agree that Mali and Tyler Lydon were excellent recruits last year? Would you agree that Moyer and Battle along with a 7-2 center, are at least on paper excellent additions for next year? What is the problem?

I'd say they were 'good' recruits. But, Tyler is from New York and Mal is from Jersey. The conversation is about JB not having the inertia go go further than that. Chukwu — do we know what JB had to do to get him? Wasn't that more about Chukwu's plan and a connection with one of our players?

 

[HOFCeluck]

Chukwu is irrelevant...he's from Procidence and Connecticut before that...he's well within our footprint.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

I know, I know. If only his competitiveness translated into some tangible results on the court.

We were 10th in the conference. Isn't that a better indicator of how good we were than a tournament run? Virginia was an amazing win. The other wins - not a big deal if they hadn't been in March. I'm not discounting any of it. We beat who they put in front of us. But I see 'how actually good' we were as having been defined in-league.

I thought this was about recruiting. I just acknowledged JB is "competitive," even as I question the validity of that kind of assessment. Sounds too much like that bs about "that team just wanted it more."

 

[Ryand877]

I know, I know. If only his competitiveness translated into some tangible results on the court.

Didn't we just make the final four?

 

[NECuse]

Good post above, but I disagree with the comment I highlighted. I'm certain that we are recruiting names that haven't been suggested on this board.

I'd love if this were the case, but I just don't see any recruits that are worth looking at for next year's class that will (1) be better than what we have and what we currently have coming in, and (2) are open to an SU recruitment at this late stage. This list of top uncommited 2016 recruits at the moment consists of Ferguson (who we're not recruiting), Allen (not recruiting), and Bolden (not recruiting). The rest of the Top 100 are either bad fits or we already have one or two guys that would be ahead of them.

We have two offers outstanding. The first is to Thompson and the tea leaves suggest that he isn't signing with us. The second is for Dembele, who we just offered and who could be a nice program player over time (I think the comp on the recruiting board was BMK with more offensive upside, as opposed to a Chino type). Other than that, you're looking at grad transfers (Mullins, who may be a Michigan lean) or JUCO's that haven't popped on a radar yet. In any event, I think (and it's an opinion) that the staff is saving its powder for a big 2017 haul when we'll have at least 3 (and quite possible 5) ships available. Lots of talent in that group and a lot of players that we appears to have strong "ins" with.

As an aside, I don't want to come of as a naysayer about the staff or what we've done to date. If Mali comes back, I absolutely love our chances next year. I think a Mali/Battle backcourt > G/Cooney backcourt (though that may be a minority opinion), we slide Lydon to the 4, a senior Roberson, and a potential two headed monster at the 5 (with some nice talent subbing in at the forward and PG spots in Moyer and a sophomore Howard). That is a really strong group capable of playing and beating any team on any night (assuming Chuwku is what I/we hope is is). We are GREAT recruiting in the Northeast and that alone will keep the program competitive. I'd just love if the staff said "there's this do-it-all kid we need to land down in Texas" and then went out and got him. Call it "Recruiters Without Borders."

 

[Nicknack]

Didn't we just make the final four?

br801 just isn't a very smart fan, don't worry about it.

 

[RF2044]

I'd love if this were the case, but I just don't see any recruits that are worth looking at for next year's class that will (1) be better than what we have and what we currently have coming in, and (2) are open to an SU recruitment at this late stage. This list of top uncommited 2016 recruits at the moment consists of Ferguson (who we're not recruiting), Allen (not recruiting), and Bolden (not recruiting). The rest of the Top 100 are either bad fits or we already have one or two guys that would be ahead of them.

We have two offers outstanding. The first is to Thompson and the tea leaves suggest that he isn't signing with us. The second is for Dembele, who we just offered and who could be a nice program player over time (I think the comp on the recruiting board was BMK with more offensive upside, as opposed to a Chino type). Other than that, you're looking at grad transfers (Mullins, who may be a Michigan lean) or JUCO's that haven't popped on a radar yet. In any event, I think (and it's an opinion) that the staff is saving its powder for a big 2017 haul when we'll have at least 3 (and quite possible 5) ships available. Lots of talent in that group and a lot of players that we appears to have strong "ins" with.

As an aside, I don't want to come of as a naysayer about the staff or what we've done to date. If Mali comes back, I absolutely love our chances next year. I think a Mali/Battle backcourt > G/Cooney backcourt (though that may be a minority opinion), we slide Lydon to the 4, a senior Roberson, and a potential two headed monster at the 5 (with some nice talent subbing in at the forward and PG spots in Moyer and a sophomore Howard). That is a really strong group capable of playing and beating any team on any night (assuming Chuwku is what I/we hope is is). We are GREAT recruiting in the Northeast and that alone will keep the program competitive. I'd just love if the staff said "there's this do-it-all kid we need to land down in Texas" and then went out and got him. Call it "Recruiters Without Borders."

That's because not all of the players we're recruiting for next year will come from the class of 2016.

Relax. The staff is doing yeoman's work right now behind the scenes. I will be very surprised if all three of our open scholarships for next year are not filled with quality.

 

[billsin01]

I agree. Can you imagine Lydon making the same level of improvement as Dion did going from freshmen to sophomore year. That's kind of my expectation. I'm expecting Lydon to be absolute monster next year. He's always been a lot more stronger than he looks.

+1. I'd say Lydon absolutely has the potential to be a legit go-to option (as opposed to being a bit of a default go-to the way many teams are faced with each season). A lot of talk on here about his shooting but I'd love some work on that back to the basket game a little bit as well. Think he could be a nightmare in the high post as is, and even more difficult with his solid size and strength along with great quickness and athleticism down low. Excited about him next year.

 

[NECuse]

That's because not all of the players we're recruiting for next year will come from the class of 2016.

Relax. The staff is doing yeoman's work right now behind the scenes. I will be very surprised if all three of our open scholarships for next year are not filled with quality.

As I said, I hope you're right. The more quality, the better.

And this is me being relaxed. This dialogue has provided me with a welcome respite from the drudgery that is the practice of law.

 

[jr4750]

+1. I'd say Lydon absolutely has the potential to be a legit go-to option (as opposed to being a bit of a default go-to the way many teams are faced with each season). A lot of talk on here about his shooting but I'd love some work on that back to the basket game a little bit as well. Think he could be a nightmare in the high post as is, and even more difficult with his solid size and strength along with great quickness and athleticism down low. Excited about him next year.

He and TROB should perfect that high low look all summer. It will kill next year. TL is too skilled for 90% of the big men he will face and too fast for the others. At the very least he will draw tons of fouls. Duke/UNC will be the only teams that might not be a totally plausible play next year.

 

[HOFCeluck]

br801 just isn't a very smart fan, don't worry about it.

Hey guys pretty sure he was being facetious.

 

[Nicknack]

Hey guys pretty sure he was being facetious.

 

[billsin01]

We are kind of stuck in the middle. Get kids that if have a really good season will be on NBA radar but they aren't good enough to win national titles. IMO

I agree with this to an extent but I think the tough part is that we're always looking at it from a particular point in time. If you look at it this year we limped through the regular season, nearly missed the tourney and had zero depth all year, even when we made our run. However, Nova, as an example, blasted teams all season, had great depth and made a run all the way to the title. So advantage (in whatever you want to discuss -- coaching, recruiting, development, etc) Nova.

But, if you looked at the bigger picture of the past five seasons, for example, you have Nova missing the post season in 12, going out in the first round in 13 and then getting knocked out early despite gaudy records and impressive seeds in each of the two seasons prior to this run.

The Cuse, meanwhile, hasn't been world-beaters in that stretch, but despite the whole Fab thing, won 34 games and reached the elite 8 in 12, won 30 and got to the final four in 13, won 28 but lost in an upset to DAyton in 14, had the ban last season and then went to the final four despite a brutal regular season this year. So cuse with 133 wins and two final fours; Nova with 130 wins, a title and three relatively early tourney exits. So who was better in that stretch? Hard to say that Nova's overall strategy has been better, though I admit I'm just taking five years as a random increment. In the past three seasons, obviously Nova's been impressive.

 

[orangefog]

View attachment 60709

Wait, does facetious mean gay? Not that there's anything wrong with that.

 

[Nicknack]

Wait, does facetious mean gay? Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Not sure what the hell that word means. Never seen it before. Nonetheless, it doesn't seem very nice for docsu to be calling br801 a name.

 

[realorange]

Nova proved that you can win it all without a marquee player. But it certainly helps to have one. It's not a coincidence that we won our NC with a supreme talent.

Our problem lately is that we recruit good, sometimes very good, players that provide us success, even Final 4s, but they leave after a year.

And they blew out the team that had the player of the year. The grass is not always greener.

 

[orangefog]

Not sure what the hell that word means. Never seen it before. Nonetheless, it doesn't seem very nice for docsu to be calling br801 a name.

Me either, but I am pretty sure being facetious got Mussolini in trouble.

 

[Alsacs]

We need another guard period.
You can't play an entire season with a talented Freshman Tyus Battle, a Sophomore Malachi Richardson, and the only other guard on the roster on scholarship being Franklin Howard.

If Kaleb Joseph was nudged out the coaching staff has to have done the leg work to replace him.

Sorry you need atleast 4 scholarship guards on the roster just for foul trouble or injury sake.

We should be bringing in Dembele to replace Chino, a guard to replace Joseph, and then whatever JB wants for the scholarship we got back from the NCAA.

 

[RF2044]

And they blew out the team that had the player of the year. The grass is not always greener.

All of which proves that there's more ways than one to skin a cat.

 

[billsin01]

We've gotten more 4+ star players than them, but also more guys who are already gone. They've recruited better offensive players. We've recruited for the zone. There's a pretty big difference in style, philosophy and on-paper recruiting successes that's it's not an easy comparison between the 2 schools.

I would also point out that it's tough to make many conclusions on this stuff b/c a lot of times the results aren't black and white. In just the past two seasons, for example, you had Rakeem Christmas who spent three years doing little to nothing to truly help us win games -- solid defensively I guess, but even so he only averaged 23.6 mpg. Then, all of a sudden, he blows up and has an absolutely phenomenal year last season. So was Rak a stud or was he a disappointment or was he both? Would you rather a player have one huge year and two or three underwhelming years, or consistently good production without being an absolute beast (CJ Fair)? I don't know the answer.

Then this season you had Tyler Roberson -- so he had two nondescript seasons, played a lot of minutes this season and had some good moments but hadn't cracked double-figures in scoring since the first game of Feb. (and only once in the previous 12 games total), had only cracked double-figures in rebounds twice in that time (having grabbed 4 or fewer in six of nine games) and generally looked like a shell of the player that had put up three consecutive double-doubles in January culminating in the 14 pts., 20 rebs. game at Duke. But, in the tourney he goes out and is the single biggest reason we even get a shot at playing UVA by utterly dominating the first three games.

So now it's not hard to see him potentially putting up a line of 12 or 13 ppg and 9 or 10 rpg next year. So if he does take that step forward, how do we view him as a recruit?

Bottom line -- I think you would love to land a top 10 guy from time to time and I think that's a legit question. I also think I'd like to see a roster with generally fewer glaring holes (center and PG this year, for example). But ultimately I also think it is a phenomenally big ask of a coaching staff to somehow predict the future on these kids in terms of how long they'll stay and whether or not they'll accept a bench role or transfer. It's just really tough to get the right balance.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Not sure what the hell that word means. Never seen it before. Nonetheless, it doesn't seem very nice for docsu to be calling br801 a name.

Seriously?

Ironic, glib, tounge in cheek...

 

[orangefog]

Seriously?

Ironic, glib, tounge in cheek...

Don't listen to him Nicknack, he is trying to dazzle you with his fancy doctor talk.