Recruiting has taken a hit

[OrangeDW]

But what do you see the centers doing NOW? They (attempt to) set picks up high, and maybe
attempt to roll, but they are not fed the ball. Aside from Sidibe against Pitt last year, the
center's seemingly only way to get the ball is to get it off the glass. If I'm a 5* center, who can
score, reb, and maybe has other skills (range, passing), I'm booking my one year stop on
the way to the NBA at a school and feeds the post, and allows me some freedom to do other
things. Whatever you say about JB, he has a lower tolerance for turnovers than a lot of guys,
and everything that goes along with him is not worth the trouble for a 1 or 2 year guy. The
remaining center recruits are going to have flaws, but I don't think they're best addressed by
turning them into robo-screeners.

Kev

The centers now aren’t good.

When we had good centers, we passed them the ball. Jackson and Christmas were our number 1 option on offense in 2011 and 2015, respectively.

 

[Funk Doc]

But what do you see the centers doing NOW? They (attempt to) set picks up high, and maybe
attempt to roll, but they are not fed the ball. Aside from Sidibe against Pitt last year, the
center's seemingly only way to get the ball is to get it off the glass. If I'm a 5* center, who can
score, reb, and maybe has other skills (range, passing), I'm booking my one year stop on
the way to the NBA at a school and feeds the post, and allows me some freedom to do other
things. Whatever you say about JB, he has a lower tolerance for turnovers than a lot of guys,
and everything that goes along with him is not worth the trouble for a 1 or 2 year guy. The
remaining center recruits are going to have flaws, but I don't think they're best addressed by
turning them into robo-screeners.

Kev

JB has lots of flaws, not gonna deny that, but one thing you can definitely say about him, is when he finds something that works(recent example: Tyus at the point with Buddy on the floor, even though it puts a senior, who at times last year, was our best player, on the bench) he sticks with it. If we had a center who we could feed in the post that could score, you know darn well JB would run that 9 times out of 10 in a row. Basically the last few games, it has been get Tyus the ball early up the floor and just let him go to work. Why do we keep doing it...simple answer...it works and feeding our bigs doesn’t.

 

[kcsu]

We need a change when it comes to recruiting. We need to embrace Social media and follow the football programs lead. We need to increase our footprint. We need to infuse some energy in the pursuit of players.

 

[RF2044]

We need a change when it comes to recruiting. We need to embrace Social media and follow the football programs lead. We need to increase our footprint. We need to infuse some energy in the pursuit of players.

To accomplish that, we'd need new blood.

Because the existing staff won't innovate or do anything differently than what they currently are.

 

[SUFan44]

We need a change when it comes to recruiting. We need to embrace Social media and follow the football programs lead. We need to increase our footprint. We need to infuse some energy in the pursuit of players.

All of those things do matter but you don't know that they aren't doing some of these things already.

In football, it is much more widespread than it is in basketball. Also, at the end of the day it comes down to relationship building. A kid isn't going to come to a school solely on the basis of social media output from the program.

I don't think it's any secret that Boeheim wasn't involved with recruiting as much as he was previously. He was falling asleep at AAU tournaments for crying out loud. That's the crux of the issue, or our assistants are not capable of building strong relationships (like Hopkins was).

 

[orangecuse]

Obviously highly-rated players these days - especially bigs - expect to go to a big-time program. We're in the running there. Unfortunately, it seems just as important for them to play under someone's wing. Bigs often seem to be looking for a coach, or assistant coach, that they relate to and that can develop them. For Wahab, Ewing fit the bill. And for Stewart, Hop is someone he built a relationship with that had experience working with bigs at the Olympics. That's the kind of recruiter we're lacking, that we need to bring back into the program.

Your bigs comment about looking for a coach, etc. appears to carry some weight. You often hear JB say things about bigs "needing/taking time to develop" etc., especially at this level. Who knows, maybe a bigs coach would be beneficial for us?

 

[phil77]

What has had the bigger dip...Recruiting or Player Development ??

 

[OrangeDW]

He was falling asleep at AAU tournaments for crying out loud.

I don’t think this means anything. Was probably in a situation where he was waiting around for awhile in between games or something, and took a 5 minute cat nap. Big deal?

 

[RF2044]

Your bigs comment about looking for a coach, etc. appears to carry some weight. You often hear JB say things about bigs "needing/taking time to develop" etc., especially at this level. Who knows, maybe a bigs coach would be beneficial for us?

Several years ago, I was pining to see the staff add Herman Harried [who was a very successful HS coach].

As long as they were going to go with the "all former players" model of building the staff, would have liked to have seen what he could do coaching bigs. Unfortunately [only from the standpoint of my idea], he is focused on being an educator, and has found a home at the HS level. I think his school might have even dedicated tir hoops floor to him -- quite an honor.

 

[kcsu]

Several years ago, I was pining to see the staff add Herman Harried [who was a very successful HS coach].

As long as they were going to go with the "all former players" model of building the staff, would have liked to have seen what he could do coaching bigs. Unfortunately [only from the standpoint of my idea], he is focused on being an educator, and has found a home at the HS level. I think his school might have even dedicated tir hoops floor to him -- quite an honor.

He would have been a great hire. Gmac and Griff are ok recruiting but with JB basically a lame duck we need assistants that are excellent on the trail.

 

[Funk Doc]

What about a certain NBA forward being released by the Bulls? I heard he might be unemployed and looking for work. I think I’ve seen his name around campus somewhere!!

 

[rrlbees]

He would have been a great hire. Gmac and Griff are ok recruiting but with JB basically a lame duck we need assistants that are excellent on the trail.

How do you know he would have been a great hire and how do you know he’d be excellent on the trail? Has anyone else been after him to go to the college game?

 

[Horn88]

The primary issue IMO isn't that we're bringing in guys who are ranked lower it's that we seem to have a drop off in our player evals coming out of high school and then how we are developing guys once they get here. That's really a much more important part than just simply where some glorified high school basketball blogger ranks guys.

I wouldn't get too hung up on where a kid is ranked. I mean, yeah, if you bring in McDonalds guys versus top 150 or 3 stars that's a huge difference but saying we brought in a guy ranked 56 and now a guy is 92 isn't really that significant in my eyes. It's about finding the right guys and then maximizing their ability when they get here to build a program and sustain success.

 

[Halfmooncuse]

Are you a HOF coach that nearly has a 1000 wins? Our recruits are the best since...?

 

[SUFan44]

I don’t think this means anything. Was probably in a situation where he was waiting around for awhile in between games or something, and took a 5 minute cat nap. Big deal?

Perception is reality.

 

[OrangeFoo]

What about a certain NBA forward being released by the Bulls? I heard he might be unemployed and looking for work. I think I’ve seen his name around campus somewhere!!

You mean the one who wants to start his own VC business, lifestyle business, real estate empire and probably an entertainment business? You think he's going to give all that up to go chase 16 year olds? Now what really needs to happen is he becomes Syracuse's version of WWW.

 

[cuseincincy]

Well let's be honest here from those final fours and a sweet 16 we still had a few very talented holdovers from those years we were getting very good players. if we keep going the way we're going you know we might be looking forward to the NIT almost every single year

So when exactly are you saying our recruiting went down? You say we can't count the 2016 FF because we were still getting good players like our freshman that year that included Frank Howard and oh yeah Malachi Richardson and Tyler Lydon. Not to play that game but we'd look a little different with those 2 seniors this year. I really don;t think any team has been as impacted as much as SU as far as players leaving early. Other than Kansas, UK, Duke and UNC I doubt anyone has lost near the players we have. We don't recruit the same as them but that's not really the point. NOBODY recruits as well as those 4 schools and we have little hope of doing so. But to get back to the point...the year of the 2016 FF we signed 3 4 stars, #37, 66 and 74. 66 got hurt and couldn't cut it when he returned and 74's mom missed her baby. Oh yeah the coaches also brought in 2 grad transfers. That brings us to the 2017 class. Yep, it was underwhelming headlined by Brissett and Dolezaj who was the only 4 star. 2017 is the year we lost our 2 top targeted recruits to the aforementioned Duke and Kentucky, no shame there. The fact that both players have since transferred from those schools makes one wonder did we really miss out on much? Add those 2 to our 2017 class (wouldn't have got Dolezaj then) it would have been considered a very good class. 2018 - We had a 5 star top 10 commit brain fart on us. Our 4 star has disappointed us a little but thank goodness coach's kid can shoot. I'm almost drooling thinking about Buddy as a senior! So yes I will give you we had some disappointments the last couple years. But its on the uptick and Carrigan would be a nice pick completion to the class. Just wanted to add that if JG3 had committed to Duke he would be a 4 star.

 

[kcsu]

How do you know he would have been a great hire and how do you know he’d be excellent on the trail? Has anyone else been after him to go to the college game?

I dont. Pure speculation. What i do know is that we didn't land any of our big prospects this year.

 

[Funk Doc]

You mean the one who wants to start his own VC business, lifestyle business, real estate empire and probably an entertainment business? You think he's going to give all that up to go chase 16 year olds? Now what really needs to happen is he becomes Syracuse's version of WWW.

Haha yeah him...also sarcasm.

 

[rrlbees]

I dont. Pure speculation. What i do know is that we didn't land any of our big prospects this year.

For speculation, that sure was a declarative statement.

 

[cuseguy]

I don’t think this means anything. Was probably in a situation where he was waiting around for awhile in between games or something, and took a 5 minute cat nap. Big deal?

Sorta common knowledge that JB was slacking in recruiting over a number of years. We clearly miss Hop.

 

[ar inj]

See below from JordanSperber@Hoopvvhsion68: average usage and efficiency by coach and position in the "kenpom" era. I am surprised this has not been discussed on this board before now.

Coach Boeheim: Second row; second column. It looks like Jay Wright but more so.

Discuss

 

[syrBossHogg]

What has had the bigger dip...Recruiting or Player Development ??

Player development

 

[Cusefan0307]

Player development

Yup. Lots of guys haven’t improved. See Brissett for example this year. Roberson. Cooney. I could go on.

 

[Tony DeFranco]

Yup. Lots of guys haven’t improved. See Brissett for example this year. Roberson. Cooney. I could go on.

I don't see how Brissett is going to improve - he doesnt really have a position - he has no low post moves so he aint a PF and he cannot get to the rim unless he is going unobstructed to his right so he isnt a SF - yeah, sure he's a stretch 4 - yawn - he's athletic and a good rebounder