Recruiting has taken a hit

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#77
2 4 7 keeps history on this.

Scoop was outside the top 50 and so was Jackson. Cooney wasn’t even top 100.

I’ll give you Rank, but those other guys we didn’t really win a lot of regular season games with.

Arinze
Rautins
Triche
Jackson
Scoop
Wes before he came to cuse
Kris Joseph


The guys above all ranked below or near where everyone we are recruiting now is ranked. People need to stop throwing around things that aren’t true. It’s not nearly as bad as people think.
So it sounds like the recruiting, in terms of recruit rankings, wasn't even that good back then either.
 

doc05

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#78
The lengths people will go on here to convince themselves that recruiting hasn't taken a bit of a dip is entertaining. Not saying we aren't getting certain guys that are better then their "ranking" (a lot of schools can say that), but it's interesting that half our class this year is compromised of guys ranked outside the top 200, had a grand total of one top 100 recruit last year, and had none the year before that (while we consistently miss on our top higher ranking targets). Keep spinning it however you will; "stars don't matter", "guys were ranked low because they are from X but otherwise were top 20 recruits lol", "we had a top 10 guy" (who would rather go to the G League or intern that play here) blah blah blah lol.

Not saying we aren't getting talent and guys who are better than their ranking, but on paper it is what it is -- except on here it seems.
 
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reedny

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#80
We need a change when it comes to recruiting. We need to embrace Social media and follow the football programs lead. We need to increase our footprint. We need to infuse some energy in the pursuit of players.
To accomplish that, we'd need new blood.

Because the existing staff won't innovate or do anything differently than what they currently are.
I'd be interested to hear what rrlbees thinks. Recruiting ebbs and flows, and we are still feeling the effects of NCAA probation (which runs through March, 2020).

OTOH, we're done with recruiting restrictions (probation continues nominally until March of 2020 but we're at full strength with staff and scholarships). Meanwhile, other ACC programs facing NCAA enforcement have been stacking bigs. Yet at the C and PF positions, we're not competing as well for the top prospects (4/5 stars) as we have in the past. In fact, we seem to be aiming lower and lower with targets but still losing to mid-majors.

Bees do you think MBB recruiting needs a refresh ... something akin to what we've seen with FB? Do you think adding an ace recruiter to the men's program - someone with experience developing bigs - would help?
 
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#82
Is Book Richardson around? Let’s hire him.
Why not, what could they do JB at this point in his career? Don't know why we don’t get back get back in the game, when it’s clear that other programs never stopped and are clearly not being punished.
 

Janner

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#84
I think it would be fascinating to see what hopkins would say were the biggest barriers in recruiting for this program recently. He obviously is a top notch recruiter and has started to demostrate it with the early success hes having at Washington in allll. We'll probably never know what he really thinks regarding this topic but it would be interesting to hear what he would say
 

FrancoPizza

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#86
Do you think adding an ace recruiter to the men's program - someone with experience developing bigs - would help?
The better we are at recruiting, the less important player development becomes. The elites they don't care if coach so-and-so will stick around because they're hardly unpacking their luggage.

Bottom line - we need CLOSERS. Weather? Distance from home? Offensive system? Did Troy Weaver make those excuses or did he find a way to get results?
 

reedny

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#88
Yeah we have bad recruits beating Duke at home. Drink another one
No one's saying we're doomed, so please save the strawman posts. We have two 4-stars (G/SF) coming in, a developmental big and the NYS scoring record-holder. We're still getting good players, although we're not competing as well for elite (or even 4-star) centers and (p) forwards as we used to (our last 5-star big was 5 years ago). That's where the issue is. We're targeting lower-rated players and falling below ACC competition for front line talent, recently even losing out to MM's. Some of us are trying to figure that out without panicking or overstating the issue (no offense).
 
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OrangeDW

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#89
The lengths people will go on here to convince themselves that recruiting hasn't taken a bit of a dip is entertaining. Not saying we aren't getting certain guys that are better then their "ranking" (a lot of schools can say that), but it's interesting that half our class this year is compromised of guys ranked outside the top 200, had a grand total of one top 100 recruit last year, and had none the year before that (while we consistently miss on our top higher ranking targets). Keep spinning it however you will; "stars don't matter", "guys were ranked low because they are from X but otherwise were top 20 recruits lol", "we had a top 10 guy" (who would rather go to the G League or intern that play here) blah blah blah lol.

Not saying we aren't getting talent and guys who are better than their ranking, but on paper it is what it is -- except on here it seems.
I think a positive right now is that we are building depth back into the program. With the combination of scholarship reductions plus early entrants we had no depth at all.

Things look much more normal on paper for next year’s team. We need our best recruits like Carey, Goodine, and Guerrier to pan out, and we should have solid teams the next couple years.

At least the couple years of uncertainty of “who the heck is even going to be on our team next year” is gone.
 
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#90
the one and dones can be alluring - but very few are actually good enough to win titles - anthony davis' arent out there every year - and the syr program has taken some hits from unexpected departures way earlier than expected.

look @ villanova they have and had a bunch of 4 year players built it up over time and are the gold standard at the moment - i'm not so sure some of this isn't a strategic decision - to go for the 4 year players because it is better competitively.

Sure if an stewart wants to come - of course he can - and i'm sure they wanted him - but there's def something to be said for staying away from a lot of the one and dones. kentucky has what? 1 title under calipari with like 100 burger boys??

recruiting is not neearly as black and white as the rankings sites make it seem....
 
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#91
the one and dones can be alluring - but very few are actually good enough to win titles - anthony davis' arent out there every year - and the syr program has taken some hits from unexpected departures way earlier than expected.

look a@ villanova they have and had a bunch of 4 year players built it up over time and are the gold standard at the moment - i'm not so sure some of this isn't a strategic decision - to go for the 4 year players because it is better competitively.

Sure if an stewart wants to come - of course he can - and i'm sure they wanted him - but there's def something to be said for staying away from a lot of the one and dones. kentucky has what? 1 title under calipari with like 100 burger boys??

recruiting is not neearly as black and white as the rankings sites make it seem...
Kentucky could have won more but I don't think calipairi is a good of a game day x & o coach and duke has gotten into the 1 & done thing all the way too and there definitely a favorite to win it all this year and coach k is what holds it all together with all them freshmen. I think Kentucky and Duke are first-tier and Kansas and say Villanova are a mix of four star players and one & done players n obviously it's worked very well for nova cause there very well coached and sometimes there one & dones will stay longer plus there very good top 50 players would stay longer at nova plus duke and UNC where it always for whatever reason our guys would always leave early and sure that did set us back alot.
 

OrangeDW

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#92
For next year we project to have:

Carey
Goodine
Boeheim
Girard
Washington
Brissett
Hughes
Dolezaj
Guerrier
Braswell
Sidibe
Ajok

A full roster, most of whom we already know can play. It’s not like we’re bringing in Greg Davis’s and Devin Brennan McBride’s.
 

Cusefan0307

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#93
Everyone thinks they are an expert in recruiting now with all the scouting services available. You see it all the time with fans on Twitter. People don’t understand why Carey isn’t playing because they believe he’s an elite talent based on the star system.

Now people are upset when we don’t get certain players based on stars. There’s a lot of top 50 guys that miss. Some of it’spolitical with rankings. Some of it is the guys doing the rankings I don’t think are what you call basketball experts.

People forget Mookie Jones was ranked top 50 and higher than Kris Joseph. Kaleb Joseph was top 50. Tyler Roberson was like 30.

I wish fans based their judgement on if a guy could play or not based upon watching tape and not based upon some star ranking system.
 
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HOFCeluck

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#94
Kentucky could have won more, but I don't think calipairi is a good of a game day x & o coach.

Duke has gotten into the 1 & done thing all the way too. They’re definitely a favorite to win it all this year. Coach k is what holds it all together with all them freshmen.

I think Kentucky and Duke are first-tier, and Kansas and say Villanova are a mix of four star players and one & done players. Obviously it's worked very well for nova. They’re very well coached and sometimes their one & dones will stay longer. Plus, their very good top 50 players would stay longer at nova, as well as at duke or UNC. For whatever reason our guys would always leave early and that did set us back a lot.
You’re welcome. God that was painful to read.
 

OrangeDW

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#95
Everyone thinks they are an expert in recruiting now with all the scouting services available. You see it all the time with fans on Twitter. People don’t understand why Carey isn’t playing because they believe he’s an elite talent based on the star system.

Now people are upset when we don’t get certain players based on stars. There’s a lot of top 50 guys that miss. Some of its political with rankings. Some of it is the guys doing the rankings I don’t think are what you call basketball experts.

People forget Mookie Jones was ranked top 50 and higher than Kris Joseph. Kaleb Joseph was top 50. Tyler Roberson was like 30.

I wish fans based their judgement on if a guy could play or not based upon watching tape and not based upon some star ranking system.
Yeah, good examples. Terrance Roberts was ranked a lot higher than Hakim Warrick.

Josh Wright was rated similarly to Tyler Ennis.

SU fans (or any major school) talking about recruiting on twitter...man I can’t even imagine how ridiculous that is to read through.
 

BillSU

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#96
He would have been a great hire. Gmac and Griff are ok recruiting but with JB basically a lame duck we need assistants that are excellent on the trail.
I think RF2044, kcsu and cuse#1 should form the new coaching staff. See how easy it is to get great talent from all over the country into your program.

If you describe someone or something as a lame duck, you are critical of them because they are not successful and need to be helped a lot. JB and this program are not that.

I get you want young, effective recruiters because you believe they will be able to bring in top ten recruits or better. I disagree. We have three very good recruiters on the road bringing in the best players they can. There is room for a fourth. I wonder if there are any past players great ones who would be interested in the job? Someone like a Derrick Coleman or John Wallace, All Americans who are in the top ten players for SU. Or maybe you forgot who these guys are? Of course whether they'd be interested for a specified sum is another topic.

Did you ever think that there are so many great, schools creating so much parity now that top ten fickle recruits have their pick. They feel if it's Virginia, Duke, Kentucky, Gonzaga, Tennessee, Michigan, Houston, Michigan St., Va Tech, North Carolina, Wisconsin, Purdue, Iowa St., Nevada, Louisville, Texas Tech, Kansas, Marquette, LSU, Villanova, Auburn, Iowa, Buffalo or Maryland or Syracuse they know where they're going and will commit or at the last second de-commit.

It was many things, IMHO, that changed the landscape of recruiting for us but mostly NCAA sanctions, as Orange Extreme says, that changed or put questions in recruits minds and the loss of recruiters like Weaver, whatever. It takes time for those sanctions to become complete and be lost in the minds of up – coming recruits all the while trying to maintain a winning record each year and making the tournament with what you have for players. All of the above had an effect on why we were not currently picking up top 10 – 20 caliber recruits like we were in the 80's which was when we had one of the best programs in the country for the decade. If you'd like the records I'll be glad to provide them.

In general, if you look at our record from the time Jim Boeheim began coaching the team in 1976, it is an amazing run and to disparage it seems wrong. It's like you want a 30 – 5 team every year or better. We're spoiled by success. We don't understand good or fair we expect very good or great. It is what it is.

Get out there and recruit, coach and we'll look at your record in 20 years and see how you did – if you're still here. GOSU ;)
 
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OrangeDW

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#97
I think RF2044, kcsu and cuse#1 should form the new coaching staff. See how easy it is to get great talent from all over the country into your program.

If you describe someone or something as a lame duck, you are critical of them because they are not successful and need to be helped a lot. JB and this program are not that.

I get you want young, effective recruiters because you believe they will be able to bring in top ten recruits or better. I disagree. We have three very good recruiters on the road bringing in the best players they can. There is room for a fourth. I wonder if there are any past players great ones who would be interested in the job? Someone like a Derrick Coleman or John Wallace, All Americans who are in the top ten players for SU. Or maybe you forgot who these guys are? Of course whether they'd be interested for a specified sum is another topic.

Did you ever think that there are so many great, schools creating so much parity now that top ten fickle recruits have their pick. They feel if it's Virginia, Duke, Kentucky, Gonzaga, Tennessee, Michigan, Houston, Michigan St., Va Tech, North Carolina, Wisconsin, Purdue, Iowa St., Nevada, Louisville, Texas Tech, Kansas, Marquette, LSU, Villanova, Auburn, Iowa, Buffalo or Maryland or Syracuse they know where they're going and will commit or at the last second de-commit.

It was many things, IMHO, that changed the landscape of recruiting for us but mostly NCAA sanctions, as Orange Extreme says, that changed or put questions in recruits minds and the loss of recruiters like Weaver, whatever. It takes time for those sanctions to become complete and be lost in the minds of up – coming recruits all the while trying to maintain a winning record each year and making the tournament with what you have for players. All of the above had an effect on why we were not currently picking up top 10 – 20 caliber recruits like we were in the 80's which was when we had one of the best programs in the country for the decade. If you'd like the records I'll be glad to provide them.

In general, if you look at our record from the time Jim Boeheim began coaching the team in 1976, it is an amazing run and to disparage it seems wrong. It's like you want a 30 – 5 team every year or better. We're spoiled by success. We don't understand good or fair we expect very good or great. It is what it is.

Get out there and recruit, coach and we'll look at your record in 20 years and see how you did – if you're still here. GOSU ;)
That’s a weird grouping of fans as assistants there. 1 is new, 1 complains about the staff in 90% of his posts, and 1...is a long time respectable poster.

Why those 3?
 

kcsu

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#99
That’s a weird grouping of fans as assistants there. 1 is new, 1 complains about the staff in 90% of his posts, and 1...is a long time respectable poster.
I think RF2044, kcsu and cuse#1 should form the new coaching staff. See how easy it is to get great talent from all over the country into your program.

If you describe someone or something as a lame duck, you are critical of them because they are not successful and need to be helped a lot. JB and this program are not that.

I get you want young, effective recruiters because you believe they will be able to bring in top ten recruits or better. I disagree. We have three very good recruiters on the road bringing in the best players they can. There is room for a fourth. I wonder if there are any past players great ones who would be interested in the job? Someone like a Derrick Coleman or John Wallace, All Americans who are in the top ten players for SU. Or maybe you forgot who these guys are? Of course whether they'd be interested for a specified sum is another topic.

Did you ever think that there are so many great, schools creating so much parity now that top ten fickle recruits have their pick. They feel if it's Virginia, Duke, Kentucky, Gonzaga, Tennessee, Michigan, Houston, Michigan St., Va Tech, North Carolina, Wisconsin, Purdue, Iowa St., Nevada, Louisville, Texas Tech, Kansas, Marquette, LSU, Villanova, Auburn, Iowa, Buffalo or Maryland or Syracuse they know where they're going and will commit or at the last second de-commit.

It was many things, IMHO, that changed the landscape of recruiting for us but mostly NCAA sanctions, as Orange Extreme says, that changed or put questions in recruits minds and the loss of recruiters like Weaver, whatever. It takes time for those sanctions to become complete and be lost in the minds of up – coming recruits all the while trying to maintain a winning record each year and making the tournament with what you have for players. All of the above had an effect on why we were not currently picking up top 10 – 20 caliber recruits like we were in the 80's which was when we had one of the best programs in the country for the decade. If you'd like the records I'll be glad to provide them.

In general, if you look at our record from the time Jim Boeheim began coaching the team in 1976, it is an amazing run and to disparage it seems wrong. It's like you want a 30 – 5 team every year or better. We're spoiled by success. We don't understand good or fair we expect very good or great. It is what it is.

Get out there and recruit, coach and we'll look at your record in 20 years and see how you did – if you're still here. GOSU ;)
Nobody is questioning JBs amazing career. We are questioning our recent recruiting results. This year has been excellent with the exception of the center position which might end up solid.
I know that JB expects and demands that his players perform at a very high level. Why shouldn't we expect a top 20 recruiting class each year. I guarantee you that JB hates losing out on the kids we target. Especially long term targets like Stewart and Akok. I have been following and supporting SU sports longer than most and love SU. It doesn't mean that i have to agree with or blindly support everything about the program.

Why those 3?
 

BillSU

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That’s a weird grouping of fans as assistants there. 1 is new, 1 complains about the staff in 90% of his posts, and 1...is a long time respectable poster.

Why those 3?
They kind of balance each other. Let's keep them all!
 
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