Recruiting, Sanctions, JB, Hop, etc...

[AZOrange]

Right. He is on record (years ago, IIRC) that he doesn't want any part of a farewell tour. That, to me, puts doubt on when he actually retires.

That, or he tells all the venues he visits next year he wants no fanfare. :noidea:

Also depends on what NCAA penalties he deems most important (he said he'd navigate them). Recruiting penalties end in 2017.

 

[SoBeCuse]

What do we think of the following? Honest questions/ponderings.

- That no top recruit (a few one and dones probably) wanted to come here and be a part of JB's potential final season. That's coming off a F4 run with all of these vacancies here.

- Would it be better for the program if the Hop era were to start ASAP? That way he can officially put it out there what he will be implementing in terms of changes of scheme, coaching, etc.

 

[iommi]

What do we think of the following? Honest questions/ponderings.

- That no top recruit (a few one and dones probably) wanted to come here and be a part of JB's potential final season. That's coming off a F4 run with all of these vacancies here.

- Would it be better for the program if the Hop era were to start ASAP? That way he can officially put it out there what he will be implementing in terms of changes of scheme, coaching, etc.

I don't know. Hop can say what he'd do but recruits might not buy that belief without evidence stuff I keep hearing about. It's all very tenuous no matter what, that's why I think we are better off starting everything ASAP, good or bad.

My point above in my discussion about Ayala is: are we telling him and other recruits that JB is the coach for sure next year? If not, what are we telling them? Obviously, you'd think we'd tell them Hop is the '17-18 coach but are we sure he's not stepping in next year. It's all very murky.

 

[SoBeCuse]

I don't know. Hop can say what he'd do but recruits might not buy that belief without evidence stuff I keep hearing about. It's all very tenuous no matter what, that's why I think we are better off starting everything ASAP, good or bad.

My point above in my discussion about Ayala is: are we telling him and other recruits that JB is the coach for sure next year? If not, what are we telling them? Obviously, you'd think we'd tell them Hop is the '17-18 coach but are we sure he's not stepping in next year. It's all very murky.

Yeah, murky to understand and/or predict for me as well. Good word for this...murky.

 

[FrancoPizza]

G-mac wasn't out worked for Green. And no ace recruiter can out ace recruit Cal .

I'm not blaming Gmac. I'm 100% blaming JB for A) not having a contingency plan with Green, especially after suffering through several years of mediocre point guard play; and B) prioritizing the Olympics over his own program during a time of uncertainty. It was a dope move that gets younger head coaches fired. I'm also questioning why Gmac keeps getting promoted when the best thing he's reeled in on his resume was a smallmouth bass. We're Syracuse. We should do a national search for an ace recruiter when Hop takes over. JB is acting like he's forever indebted to Gmac and that's becoming a problem.

 

[FrancoPizza]

What do we think of the fact that no top recruit (a few one and dones probably) wanted to come here and be a part of JB's potential final season. That's coming off a F4 run with all of these vacancies here.

It's a small sample size to draw from but given the fact that we had plenty of scholarships AND playing time to offer, the only conclusion one might make is that JB's get-off-my-lawn image isn't melting hearts like it used to. Maybe players and their families can sense that he has one foot out the door.

 

[FrancoPizza]

I don't know. Hop can say what he'd do but recruits might not buy that belief without evidence stuff I keep hearing about. It's all very tenuous no matter what, that's why I think we are better off starting everything ASAP, good or bad..

Agreed. I do think Hop has great concepts in his head, but if he can't teach his players to execute those concepts then he'll still be toast. It's just a big question mark and the sooner we find out the better given the current state of the program. Now if he assembles a staff that can recruit their tails off, then he might buy himself some time until he figures out the coaching aspects.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Wouldn't any 'elite' smart kid/coach watch our games (not just this year) and be like, "What the hell are they doing out there?" It's hard to tell often what we are trying to accomplish on offense. It certainly looks like there is little or no coaching going on when you watch the fundamentals and constant mistakes. That's not up for debate. It's almost Feb now. What you see is what you got. All of that tangible (video/film) evidence of play trumps the Dome, ACC, TV exposure, etc., IMO, for any sort elite kid and his support system when picking a school.

Then we have the potential issues behind the scenes with how JB is handling players, how he is most likely asleep at the wheel in terms of recruiting, etc. Do elite recruits want to play with these current group of players or the rumblings of future players here? Me thinks no. They want to play with better talent. So unfortunate considering all the vacancies for playing time coming up.

 

[IthacaMatt]

don't see Jim going out on a season like this one. just don't

Maybe so, but objectively next year looks much worse.

 

[dasher]

I'm not blaming Gmac. I'm 100% blaming JB for A) not having a contingency plan with Green, especially after suffering through several years of mediocre point guard play; and B) prioritizing the Olympics over his own program during a time of uncertainty. It was a dope move that gets younger head coaches fired. I'm also questioning why Gmac keeps getting promoted when the best thing he's reeled in on his resume was a smallmouth bass. We're Syracuse. We should do a national search for an ace recruiter when Hop takes over. JB is acting like he's forever indebted to Gmac and that's becoming a problem.

G-mac was brought in as the 3rd recruiter. He was and is behind Autry and Hopkins. Not only is there nothing wrong with promoting from within, it is often a good thing. That is the second time you have used the fishing line. It wasn't funny or strong the first time. I will tell you this, when you don't help or take care of the people that have helped or taken care of you, you will find in short order that no one will help or take care of you. your policy doesn't breed loyalty. Quite the opposite. When Hopkins takes over, there will be an opening for a ass't coach. I am quite confidant that Hop will bring in a rain maker. He is in a different place than JB.

 

[FrancoPizza]

G-mac was brought in as the 3rd recruiter. He was and is behind Autry and Hopkins.

Autry will leave soon. Hop will be the head man soon. From Francis' mouth, they are grooming gerry to become the lead recruiter. That worries me. It should worry you. No guarantee that a rain maker joins the staff.

That is the second time you have used the fishing line. It wasn't funny or strong the first time.

Who said it was funny? It's just the facts. Great college player - one BET title, one NCAA title and we all love the mark he left as a player - but doesn't mean he can recruit at the level we expect for a program of Syracuse's stature.

When Hopkins takes over, there will be an opening for a ass't coach. I am quite confidant that Hop will bring in a rain maker.

This single hire - or lack thereof - will make or break Hopkins' tenure. Even if his X's and O's are fundamentally sound and he has a modern approach to the game, it will take a few years for him to refine his approach, figure out what works tactically, and essentially step out of JB's shadow and legacy. The only way he gets a few years to mature on the bench, though, is if his staff is landing top 10-20 recruiting classes.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Autry will leave soon. Hop will be the head man soon. From Francis' mouth, they are grooming gerry to become the lead recruiter. That worries me. It should worry you. No guarantee that a rain maker joins the staff.

Who said it was funny? It's just the facts. Great college player - one BET title, one NCAA title and we all love the mark he left as a player - but doesn't mean he can recruit at the level we expect for a program of Syracuse's stature.

This single hire - or lack thereof - will make or break Hopkins' tenure.

Thank god you're not the AD. We would be the Buffalo Bills of the ACC. Changing coaches more than you change your underwear.

 

[Oráiste]

It's a small sample size to draw from but given the fact that we had plenty of scholarships AND playing time to offer, the only conclusion one might make is that JB's get-off-my-lawn image isn't melting hearts like it used to. Maybe players and their families can sense that he has one foot out the door.

really? that's the only conclusion one can make? I can think of several others.

I think that's the only conclusion for someone who has already made up his mind

 

[Francis03]

Autry will leave soon. Hop will be the head man soon. From Francis' mouth, they are grooming gerry to become the lead recruiter. That worries me. It should worry you. No guarantee that a rain maker joins the staff.

Who said it was funny? It's just the facts. Great college player - one BET title, one NCAA title and we all love the mark he left as a player - but doesn't mean he can recruit at the level we expect for a program of Syracuse's stature.

This single hire - or lack thereof - will make or break Hopkins' tenure. Even if his X's and O's are fundamentally sound and he has a modern approach to the game, it will take a few years for him to refine his approach, figure out what works tactically, and essentially step out of JB's shadow and legacy. The only way he gets a few years to mature on the bench, though, is if his staff is landing top 10-20 recruiting classes.

I know Autry wants to get a HC job real soon, but I doubt any Cuse assistants are at the top of the list for any AD's out there even on the low-mid major level. I would anticipate Autry sticking around much longer.

 

[dasher]

I know Autry wants to get a HC job real soon, but I doubt any Cuse assistants are at the top of the list for any AD's out there even on the low-mid major level. I would anticipate Autry sticking around much longer.

I would think he would have had a much better shot after the FF last year rather than this pile of crap season.

 

[Francis03]

I would think he would have had a much better shot after the FF last year rather than this pile of crap season.

Exactly. Gotta strike when the iron is hot.

 

[IthacaMatt]

really? that's the only conclusion one can make? I can think of several others.

I think that's the only conclusion for someone who has already made up his mind

So fill us in, why did we whiff on ALL of our targets for 2017?

 

[Oráiste]

So fill us in, why did we whiff on ALL of our targets for 2017?

who knows what it is - sanctions limiting contact, the stigma of sanctions, GMAC learning on the job, the appearance of disarray at the top of the athletic department (3 ADs in less than a year and a half), negative recruiting pointing to all of this and more

my point is that Franco said the ONLY conclusion was that Boeheim's personality was the cause. that may be a significant reason, but clearly that is not the only conclusion to draw, except for those already predisposed to believe it.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Like most other head coaches, I'd imagine he delegates a lot of the early recruiting. He sends coaches X and Y somewhere, they come back with their evaluations, he whittles down the list of targets with them, they stay in contact with the players, JB comes in to close the deal. What does him watching his sons play in high school have to do with this? How is the implication that he's ignorant of the recruiting process a fair characterization?

His point is that those are pretty much the only times you see JB on the road these past couple years - at prep school games in New England where his kid plays. Now, yes, there are some recruits there, but it also seems like if someone is from farther away than DC, we just don't put the effort in anymore.

 

[IthacaMatt]

G-mac wasn't out worked for Green. And no ace recruiter can out ace recruit Cal .

How many times have we heard Gerry speak publicly? Have you heard his radio show? He's deadpan and not very dynamic as a speaker. Hop, on the other hand, is funny and quick with a line and has that personal touch. None of those are Gerry's natural skill set. That's a huge part of recruiting these days, as is social media. If Hop takes over next year, I think you need to shove Gerry out the door to learn from another coach - maybe you hire him back down the road, but he needs to earn it. And you need to hire a real big man coach. You need an ace AAU recruiter and a legitimate big man coach. That's how Mike needs to reshape the staff.

 

[IthacaMatt]

G-mac was brought in as the 3rd recruiter. He was and is behind Autry and Hopkins. Not only is there nothing wrong with promoting from within, it is often a good thing. That is the second time you have used the fishing line. It wasn't funny or strong the first time. I will tell you this, when you don't help or take care of the people that have helped or taken care of you, you will find in short order that no one will help or take care of you. your policy doesn't breed loyalty. Quite the opposite. When Hopkins takes over, there will be an opening for a ass't coach. I am quite confidant that Hop will bring in a rain maker. He is in a different place than JB.

I think this year was Gerry's graduation test. He was given the keys to get our top priority recruits. Now, maybe a couple disappointing things happened on visits beyond his control, and nobody questions how hard he chased Quade, but it wasn't managed well because the Fall signing period was allowed to end before Quade made his decision (chump move), and because he came up absolutely, completely empty.

With the team becoming Hop's team in a year, give or take, I find it hard to believe that Hop went to the Olympics, even more so than JB. Dude, this is your program, why are you not visiting these kids and wrapping them up?

 

[Brooky03]

His point is that those are pretty much the only times you see JB on the road these past couple years - at prep school games in New England where his kid plays. Now, yes, there are some recruits there, but it also seems like if someone is from farther away than DC, we just don't put the effort in anymore.

and the sanctions have nothing to do with that?

 

[SoBeCuse]

and the sanctions have nothing to do with that?

Why would they? They can go out in one unit of duos whenever. That's what everybody does. Nothing is prohibiting them from contacting via social media. They don't all go out in tandem like the Four Tenors or Troubadours. Boeheim's also been saving scholarships for walkons in recent years. The sanctions excuse is just way overblown, imo. If there is direct proof of it being an issue tangibly then I'd like to see it. Maybe some stigma or red flag for certain families of recruits but methinks UNC and Louisville won't miss a beat.

 

[721Comstock]

With the team becoming Hop's team in a year, give or take, I find it hard to believe that Hop went to the Olympics, even more so than JB. Dude, this is your program, why are you not visiting these kids and wrapping them up?

You expected Hop and/or JB to blow off the Olympics, so they could recruit? Please. :crazy:

We were only allowed to have 2 guys on the road at any time anyway.

 

[orange79]

Why would they? They can go out in one unit of duos whenever. That's what everybody does. Nothing is prohibiting them from contacting via social media. They don't all go out in tandem like the Four Tenors or Troubadours. Boeheim's also been saving scholarships for walkons in recent years.

Oh, good lord. Saving scholarships for walk-ons? There's a lot you can try to pin on JB, but saving scholarships for walk-ons?

Nothing to do with his habit of playing generally 8-9 players, right? He's been saving scholarships for walk-ons for 40 years?