Recruiting

[SBU72]

I guess I'm confused about recruiting. A lot of posters blame this yrs roster on Red (and the rest of the coaching staff) because they recruited the players with Red as the lead recruiter. I would like to know who CHOOSE which kids to go after, Red or JB? And even if Red actually chose which ones didn't he have to keep in mind JB's preferences and style of play? Or did JB tell red 'I want this guy or that guy' or just that he preferred long and lanky front court players to be able to react on the back of the zone. And long armed guards for top of the zone. Playing 90% m2m means you need more bulk in the 5/4 positions, so using JB preferred players would definitely hinder the team. To me, watching Red's approach to the portal will show us a lot.

 

[Irt4su]

7000 posts on this and Reds coaching this year. I may be the minority here but I think he’s doing great. I hated last nights loss more than anything but for a team going no where this year the loss is an incredible coaching/teaching moment of what it takes to beat a top team and how’s it more important to work to stay at that level. Nothing comes easy.

 

[SBU72]

Still didn't answer the question, did Red recruit kids JB told him too or not?

 

[ar inj]

Still didn't answer the question, did Red recruit kids JB told him too or not?

JB only wanted kids for his beloved out-of-date 100% zone. That automatically eliminated many kids, HS or portal. Second, JB stopped recruiting. Third, who do you think decided SU would not recruit another 2G because we had Buddy, who was allowed to take every shot he wanted. Who do you think recruited Jimmy? That was his dad; I know it was not the assistants, who did not want him. With all that, there was not much left to go after, no matter who was recruiting. Then again, JB said it was his best recruiting class. Like I ever believed that. It was a bad joke by someone who stay way too long past the expiration date.

 

[pokercuse08]

I don't see much talk about how clunky our transition was. When it was going down it felt like chaos, and then we were all relieved that things were smoothed over and Boeheim ended up accepting it and fences were mended, and we moved on from there.

Looking back now, imagine how different the situation might be if Boeheim had announced a year out that 2022-2023 would be his last year, we announced that Red would be taking over, and Red led the recruiting for more man-to-man players to develop last year.

Also would have given Red a year to start transitioning from the good cop to JB's bad cop to being the top guy and needing to be harder on players, even if he wasn't going full "bad cop."

I think we don't talk about it a lot because what's done is done, so it's pointless in that regard. But in terms of evaluating Red's first year and the transition, I think it matters.

This offseason is extremely important for Red in the portal and recruiting.

 

[sufandu]

I think it's clear Red wanted at least some different players or maybe players made it clear early in the recruiting process they weren't interested in playing for JB. As soon as Red got the Job he got the 4 transfers that were different than what we've landed in a while. They haven't all worked out as hoped for a few different reasons, but it's easy to see he wanted different guys than we had. I'm sure he wants to fix the 5 spot too, so we'll see if he can get that done after this year. Hopefully Donnie can come in and be similar to a freshman JW. That would help, but we need an actual 5 and improved shooting.

 

[atlanticuse]

JB only wanted kids for his beloved out-of-date 100% zone.

How has our man worked this year?
Not defending Boeheim, but I can’t recall a season in which we’ve been barn rolled as many times as this year.
And the only signs of a Boeheim is the lookalike JT who Red continues to start, and can’t play for poop.

 

[Cusefan0307]

How has our man worked this year?
Not defending Boeheim, but I can’t recall a season in which we’ve been barn rolled as many times as this year.
And the only signs of a Boeheim is the lookalike JT who Red continues to start, and can’t play for poop.

He also regularly lost to mid majors and beat zero top 10 teams the last 5 years.

 

[TinyManInside]

In the 2000s and the early 2010s Boeheim always had the final say on who they were recruiting. The assistants would scout the major camps during the first few days, then JB would fly in for the last few days to do his assessments and decide on who he wanted the assistants to focus on. He always had the final say, at least according to the assistants I knew. There were some real head scratchers in there, like when Boeheim told them to back off Joachim Noah because we had already signed Terrance Roberts and he was going to be better than Noah (LOL), but also some good catches on guys like Rick Jackson who looked mediocre at the time but ended up being a lot better than the guy that the assistants wanted to focus on (can't remember his name, went to MSU and averaged like 4 ppg).

No idea if the strategies changed after I stopped going to the recruiting events, but that's how it was back in the day.

 

[atlanticuse]

He also regularly lost to mid majors and beat zero top 10 teams the last 5 years.

with players recruited by......?

 

[Cusefan0307]

with players recruited by...?

By JB.

 

[syrBossHogg]

with players recruited by...?

The head coach at the time

 

[atlanticuse]

The head coach at the time

Yes, players come to play for a program. Yes the HC runs the program.
But I respectfully disagree on lead recruiter.

Just a couple examples:

• As virtually everyone knows at this point, Kiyan Anthony is the son of SU legend Carmelo Anthony. Brenden Straughn is the lead recruiter.
• Starling, a 5-star recruit, spent his freshman season at Notre Dame. He was recruited heavily by Syracuse and has a good relationship with new Syracuse head coach Adrian Autry, who was his lead recruiter.
• Allen Griffin, an assistant coach with the ‘Cuse, is the lead recruiter for the 6-foot-8 Constanza, who is a consensus top-15 national prospect in his class.
• Patterson earned his offer in August after a strong Elite Camp performance, but had been in contact with the Syracuse coaches for months prior to that. His lead recruiter is Allen Griffin.
• Autry, who had been Syracuse's lead recruiter for Mintz a year ago, said he had tried to give Mintz the space he needed during the past two months.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

7000 posts on this and Reds coaching this year. I may be the minority here but I think he’s doing great. I hated last nights loss more than anything but for a team going no where this year the loss is an incredible coaching/teaching moment of what it takes to beat a top team and how’s it more important to work to stay at that level. Nothing comes easy.

This sounds like we should be happy with the Participation Prize ribbon. We used to be a top ten team. An elite program. Now it’s “great” to just be in the gym with a top team.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Looking back now, imagine how different the situation might be if Boeheim had announced a year out that 2022-2023 would be his last year, we announced that Red would be taking over, and Red led the recruiting for more man-to-man players to develop last year.

I think this was some of the friction between Hop and JAB. Hop wanted to start recruiting his guys for the year he was expected to take over and JAB said Nah, I think we need to focus on these guys. So Hop saw the writing on the wall and went to UW.

IMO, Autry is a continuation coach. I get that some folks like Cusefan0307 don't agree, but I see this as pretty distinct. Red isn't taking over a program where he had a limited or zero relationship with the school, AD, existing players, recruits, etc. Exactly one player wasn't really expected to return, but was given the opportunity to do so. And even with what turned out to be losing two starters, SU still has one of the highest returning percentage of minutes and points among ACC teams*. Red barely even had to make coaching staff changes after being hired. There's a lot of familiarity in that program unlike what someone like Micah Shrewsberry, Kim English, or Jerome Tang walked into.

* via BBRef SU is 5th in the ACC and returned 59.3% of minutes played and 54.6% of scoring from 2022-23 roster, Duke is first in the ACC with 74%/78% returned and ND is dead last returning less than 3% of minutes and points from 22-23.

 

[ar inj]

Yes, players come to play for a program. Yes the HC runs the program.
But I respectfully disagree on lead recruiter.

Just a couple examples:

• As virtually everyone knows at this point, Kiyan Anthony is the son of SU legend Carmelo Anthony. Brenden Straughn is the lead recruiter.
• Starling, a 5-star recruit, spent his freshman season at Notre Dame. He was recruited heavily by Syracuse and has a good relationship with new Syracuse head coach Adrian Autry, who was his lead recruiter.
• Allen Griffin, an assistant coach with the ‘Cuse, is the lead recruiter for the 6-foot-8 Constanza, who is a consensus top-15 national prospect in his class.
• Patterson earned his offer in August after a strong Elite Camp performance, but had been in contact with the Syracuse coaches for months prior to that. His lead recruiter is Allen Griffin.
• Autry, who had been Syracuse's lead recruiter for Mintz a year ago, said he had tried to give Mintz the space he needed during the past two months.

Being the lead recruiter, does not make one the coach or the program the player will play for. Do you not understand that?

 

[atlanticuse]

Being the lead recruiter, does not make one the coach or the program the player will play for. Do you not understand that?

as someone who played college athletics, yes.
But we're washing HCAA's hands of this $!*&U(#@ mess of a season.
He's part of the system, not an outsider.

We didn't hire Penny Hardaway.

 

[Cusefan0307]

as someone who played college athletics, yes.
But we're washing HCAA's hands of this $!*&U(#@ mess of a season.
He's part of the system, not an outsider.

We didn't hire Penny Hardaway.

They were handcuffed. It’s ignorant to think otherwise and I am going to continue to beat this drum until people bury me with red stilettos.

 

[atlanticuse]

They were handcuffed. It’s ignorant to think otherwise and I am going to continue to beat this drum until people bury me with red stilettos.

love it. Thank you.
and my college baseball coach got fired after yelling at a player who couldn't read signs and didn't steal on command.
Something about "... run like the old neighborhood..." didn't sit well.

 

[Irt4su]

This sounds like we should be happy with the Participation Prize ribbon. We used to be a top ten team. An elite program. Now it’s “great” to just be in the gym with a top team.

Crawl before we sprint again. Last decade has destroyed what used to be. Now we need to build again.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Crawl before we sprint again. Last decade has destroyed what used to be. Now we need to build again.

That's fine, but you're conflating two different perspectives: what we as fans should be "happy" with vs what the program needs to do. But, whatever—you're entitled to your perspective, and i seriously may be envious of your ability to find 'light' in small moments.

 

[djcon57]

How has our man worked this year?
Not defending Boeheim, but I can’t recall a season in which we’ve been barn rolled as many times as this year.
And the only signs of a Boeheim is the lookalike JT who Red continues to start, and can’t play for poop.

Our defense is better statically this year in multiple areas. It's not good. But I think some of you are forgetting how bad last year and especially 2 years ago was. It was dudes walking into 3s and, if it was a missed, an auto O rebound

 

[ar inj]

as someone who played college athletics, yes.
But we're washing HCAA's hands of this $!*&U(#@ mess of a season.
He's part of the system, not an outsider.

We didn't hire Penny Hardaway.

Glad we didn't hire Penny. Memphis is a bigger train wreck than SU.

 

[dasher]

as someone who played college athletics, yes.
But we're washing HCAA's hands of this $!*&U(#@ mess of a season.
He's part of the system, not an outsider.

We didn't hire Penny Hardaway.

This is 100% on JB. He didn't work hard to bring in guys that could help us win. The ass'ts 100% wanted different guys than guys JB wanted. Red was stuck wit this mess.

 

[pearl31]

as someone who played college athletics, yes.
But we're washing HCAA's hands of this $!*&U(#@ mess of a season.
He's part of the system, not an outsider.

We didn't hire Penny Hardaway.

in all honesty I don't think you know how it worked or works at all