Red

[Jack_Ball]

I will say there is a difference in that we are cratering hard to bottom. Dino was in year 5 and 6, and had been stagnant for a few years. I’m Sure JW has the pulse of the boosters, and season ticket holders and will do the right thing. I truly think the cost of keeping him another year is greater than getting rid of him but I have no inside knowledge. What would happen if we had 5k less season ticket holders, what would they do to the bottom line.

My guesstimate calculation is between $8-10M

 

[RF2044]

Dino was stagnant; Red is basketball GRob and we will be lucky to make the ACC Tournament. The school will be hemorrhaging huge amounts of attendance dollars from killing the golden goose. Canning Red is far cheaper than retaining him in the long run. How long, and how much financial pain the admins are willing to deal with up front, is the question.

Folks need to remember that the pitchforks are not out because of mediocrity. The program is all but destroyed. This is 2000s football level bad.

All true. The apathy is real.

Would be worse if he's brought back next year. I believe that he will be [barring an epic collapse this year, which certainly could happen].

 

[Fly Rodder]

Folks need to remember that the pitchforks are not out because of mediocrity. The program is all but destroyed.

Also some people on here can rationalize that JAB is responsible for the first 8 years of decline and Red only for this season and some of last season ... but that's not the perception of the majority of the fans as indicated by the cratering attendance and interest in SU basketball.

 

[jdubs30]

If Kiyan decommitted I think he’d be let go.

Either way i feel terrible for Red for how this will end. I’m sure he feels largely responsible for putting us in this place

 

[Scott11]

The biggest question i have regarding Red is this. His talent evaluation in the portal this year was so poor, how can we trust him to evaluate talent to rebuild next year?

 

[kcsu]

It’s not the same because the money comes from different budgets. And again, SU has been preparing to fund the direct student payments for quite some time now.

With your business experience you know how this works. Cuts can be made in one area while budgets increase in another. Happens every day.

I do understand that but all of what I'm talking about based on what I have been told are expenses that come specifically out of the athletic department budget. Which means that regardless of the line item it all rolls up to the budget of the department not the general fund. If Red were to be fired i bet that Donors would be asked to contribute to his severance the staff's severance and maybe the next coach's compensation package. So, the pool of funds and boosters who support SU sports including NIL would most likely be asked to support his buyout.
Last point for me. I want everyone to know that based on what i have seen this year I don't think Red is the right person to be the head coach at SU. He has failed on multiple fronts, and I think can do better.
So I'm not supporting a third year for Red based on his coaching acumen. Rather I'm saying that I believe he will get a third year for other reasons. Primarily financial reasons. Not because he deserves it.

 

[kcsu]

The biggest question i have regarding Red is this. His talent evaluation in the portal this year was so poor, how can we trust him to evaluate talent to rebuild next year?

He won't be making the decision alone.

 

[FrancoPizza]

If Kiyan decommitted I think he’d be let go.

It would be incredibly nearsighted if a decision tipping point is a top 50 recruit.

 

[EnviroSciGuy]

Either way i feel terrible for Red for how this will end. I’m sure he feels largely responsible for putting us in this place

Same here. Red is one of my favorite former players.

I think it's best for all if it ends quickly; bringing him back next year when he has almost zero chance for success even if he improves dramatically would be extremely painful for him... and everyone that cares even a tiny bit about the program.

 

[Jasoncuse]

It's tough to see how the school can rationalize bringing him back and expect any kind of fan support next year. Look at the Dome, nobody is there, it's a morgue and you have to believe concessions, parking, merch sales have plumetted. They can look at the 19K tickets sold and be "ok" there, but the ancillary revenues, experience and perception are not there. Next year, 19K is going to be 12K, with further trickle down.

He's a lame duck coach, it's obvious, and you can't just keep that for another year to give him a chance to coach 3 total. The program is not competitive, relevant or close to the standards of it's history. Cut your losses before it gets even worse and tougher to climb back from. If JB has an issue with it or will make a commotion, so be it. He built this thing, but he's likely the major reason we have seen the complete and utter destruction of it.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Next year, 19K is going to be 12K, with further trickle down.

He's a lame duck coach, it's obvious, and you can't just keep that for another year to give him a chance to coach 3 total. The program is not competitive, relevant or close to the standards of it's history. Cut your losses before it gets even worse and tougher to climb back from. If JB has an issue with it or will make a commotion, so be it. He built this thing, but he's likely the major reason we have seen the complete and utter destruction of it.

If they only lose 7k that would be impressive. A not-insignificant number of seasons are bought by ticket brokers who make their money on a handful of big conference games and special non-cons. Those people aren't making decisions about dropping $10-30k on season tickets based on their opinion of the coaching staff. They make those decisions on losing their $10-20k.

 

[Cuse12]

I will preface this post with saying, I do not know anything other then what I read here, so this post is based off of comments shared here.

The sentiments shared are that we are stuck between a rock and a hard place with Red’s contract. Apparently there is potentially guaranteed money and we would have to buy his contract out, and little ole Syracuse just can’t afford such a thing. Firstly, if that’s the case what a horrible negotiation on cuse’s part. We weren’t competing with a single other power school in the country for Red, why would we guarantee anything? What leg does Red have to stand on to counter that? I digress.

So let’s say that’s the case, and we assume Reds making $2M a year (guessing). Make it make sense that we are okay with losing 2-3x coaches salary (or more) in revenue this year in just stadium sales. (Not counting apparel sale losses etc.) So that’s okay because we don’t have to buy out the contract for maybe half that? (Again all a guess).

Easy math, average seat price is $40 when we are “good”, if we lose 10k tix sales a game due to lack of performance. 10 home games (easy math again) and that’s $4M right there, then add on food/drink sales. That’s just 10 games for easy math.

Am I completely off base here? Make me eat crow if what I am saying makes no sense. It just seems odd that we would be okay with losing that much revenue this year and next (we won’t have fans back until the team proves it so it could take till late January next year to even start grabbing decent crowds, we are already giving up millions in revenue if we continue down this path for next season)

 

[shu 49]

I do understand that but all of what I'm talking about based on what I have been told are expenses that come specifically out of the athletic department budget. Which means that regardless of the line item it all rolls up to the budget of the department not the general fund. If Red were to be fired i bet that Donors would be asked to contribute to his severance the staff's severance and maybe the next coach's compensation package. So, the pool of funds and boosters who support SU sports including NIL would most likely be asked to support his buyout.
Last point for me. I want everyone to know that based on what i have seen this year I don't think Red is the right person to be the head coach at SU. He has failed on multiple fronts, and I think can do better.
So I'm not supporting a third year for Red based on his coaching acumen. Rather I'm saying that I believe he will get a third year for other reasons. Primarily financial reasons. Not because he deserves it.

i agree with ya but the negative side of this is the amount of money we will lose with all the lost attendance we have and we are gonna be in a bad spot if we cant get our basketball as good as football. We are maybe in a race to the four major conferences and if we cant make us look good in both sports we will be out.

 

[albanycuse]

Like we need more reasons on why Red isnt the right guy to lead us into the future. Bringing in good players is just going to mask the open heart surgery with a band aid. I hope we cut ties and start with a new coach at the end of the season. Even if we lose some recruits. His ceiling is limited. For the future of Syracuse basketball they need to go in another direction, outside the program.