Red

[tptcuse]

“The program is all but destroyed.” Talk about melodramatic hyperbole. Millions of fans might be frustrated with the current product and the decline in recent success but they still love Syracuse basketball and anticipate an eventual resurgence. If Red can’t turn things around soon, the athletic dept will hire someone who can, and it can happen fast (Louisville being the latest example.). The program is not destroyed.

We've lost fifteen games by more than ten points in a season and a half. Honest question: What would need to happen for this to be considered dire for the program?

 

[hoopsupstate]

I wonder what's going to happen if there is a mass exodus on the roster this off-season. We have a bunch of seniors graduating; they are:

• Taylor
• Carlos
• McLeod
• Davis
• Lampkin

Then, we have a bunch of players who MIGHT [emphasis on, "might"] decide to transfer, for various reasons:

• It is highly likely that Westry will opt out.
• Would anyone be surprised if Bell decided to leave?
• Cuffe, due to intermittent playing time?
• Moore, due to getting "Booheimed" after being inserted into the starting lineup?

I won't list Freeman with this group above, but not out of the realm of possibility.

Who's left?

• JJ
• Majstrorovic
• Anthony
• White

Really, those four are the only four locked in at this point. They could be joined by a couple of players from that middle group, but TBD how that works out.

This is approaching the territory of what our roster would have looked like if JB had been retained for one more year, in 23-24.

There’s two other freshman too.

 

[kcsu]

My gawd. WHY???? Because THEN we will know it's time to move on? I mean, come on. The damn writing is on the wall. The narrative last year was this season was tournament or bust. We're beyond bust, we blow so badly. It is so apparent that as a program right now, we are low ACC caliber and it's a culmination of poor coaching, talent acquisition, talent assessment, roster construction and management.

Why? Seriously don't you know the answer?
Hint $$$

 

[kcsu]

I pray this ages better in the long run. It appears clear we need a PG that can dominate & get to the hoop or FT line at will. That is priority #1. TYJM.

An offensively focused Center that can't jump, block shots and doesn't even have any focus on Def should not be a top priority.

Gotta hand it to Dry rub here to some extent anyways, he out negotiated SU. But at the same time he sabotaged his teams potential.

He is now known as The dry Hump

 

[Nicknack]

Why? Seriously don't you know the answer?
Hint $$$

Okay, I can understand that. However, that's not at all what you were saying in your post which is why I commented that way.

 

[RF2044]

My gawd. WHY???? Because THEN we will know it's time to move on? I mean, come on. The damn writing is on the wall. The narrative last year was this season was tournament or bust. We're beyond bust, we blow so badly. It is so apparent that as a program right now, we are low ACC caliber and it's a culmination of poor coaching, talent acquisition, talent assessment, roster construction and management.

Excuses, excuses, excuses.

 

[RF2044]

I think we can stop the Red cant coach Baloney. Thank God JW made the right call.

A valiant, rationalized, final attempt to cling to confirmatory bias before the truth become too impossible to ignore anymore.

 

[cardiac]

I wonder what's going to happen if there is a mass exodus on the roster this off-season. We have a bunch of seniors graduating; they are:

• Taylor
• Carlos
• McLeod
• Davis
• Lampkin

Then, we have a bunch of players who MIGHT [emphasis on, "might"] decide to transfer, for various reasons:

• It is highly likely that Westry will opt out.
• Would anyone be surprised if Bell decided to leave?
• Cuffe, due to intermittent playing time?
• Moore, due to getting "Booheimed" after being inserted into the starting lineup?

I won't list Freeman with this group above, but not out of the realm of possibility.

Who's left?

• JJ
• Majstrorovic
• Anthony
• White

Really, those four are the only four locked in at this point. They could be joined by a couple of players from that middle group, but TBD how that works out.

This is approaching the territory of what our roster would have looked like if JB had been retained for one more year, in 23-24.

JJ is NOT a lock to come back

 

[Cusefan95]

Why? Seriously don't you know the answer?
Hint $$$

Syracuse has done before what it’s about to do again. Attendance was dropping in football but had “settled in” at about 35K/game in GRob’s 2nd and 3rd year. Then the university decided to give him a fourth year, mostly due to $$$$$. Then that 2008 season, attendance was about 30K minus the Penn State game and the university was putting out sad articles about how fans not coming was hurting finances and was going to make it hard to recover. In other words, saving money by not firing a coach doesn’t save money (or nearly as much as expected) - instead of having an added expense in paying two coaches, you have less revenue.

I agree with you based on history - Red is going to get another year, but he’s incompetent and couldn’t lead a pack of hungry wolves to meat so I don’t care who he’s got on the roster - next year is going to be mediocre at best. Another trainwreck is possible. Fans are going to stay away in droves, and we’ll get articles and statements from the school talking about how badly that revenue is needed to support basketball - basically telling fans it’s their fault the team is awful. That didn’t play well in football; I think it will play even less well in basketball due to differences in the overall fan profiles.

On the plus side - Kent doesn’t seem like the type to tell fans to get a life, and JW is unlikely to describe Syracuse as a one horse town…so we might be able to avoid the PR clownshow we went through the last time.

 

[JonB]

Why? Seriously don't you know the answer?
Hint $$$

Exactly. Won’t pay a big time coach. Little NIL. Those things change, and it’s a competitive program.

 

[NKR1978]

No doubt our performance is dragging g us down. There’s more though. The game has to find its feet in a completely new world. Putting orange uniforms on does not create a culture. Teams nowadays are struggling to find an identity. There is no continuity. I used to love the early season games and the exhibitions to catch a glimpse of future attractions. The teams developed and gelled over time and had unique characters which carried through the years. Now we are in a world where the players are becoming akin to mercenaries. Mercenaries placed by a temporary agency. Just how this plays out among fan bases is going to be the story. The Golden Goose may very well be cooked.

This is such a great point. I don't mind the constant movement with football because it's a far more anonymous sport other than a few positions or standouts. Players constantly shuffling in and out of games doesn't help with keeping track of who's who. But basketball is intimate and the transfers really are ruining it.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Lampkin, Davis, and Carlos all transferred here in April. Taylor transferred here in early June.

Alex Kline wasn't hired until June 29. Majstrovic happened on his watch, but that's about it.

I'd like to see who Kline can bring in after a full season of scouting before we declare him a failure at assessment and acquisition.

Zero idea how this keeps getting lost on people. Ignorance at its best.

 

[Sherman20]

.

How do you know that JB wanted Gerry? That has been a take on the board but no one knows that for sure.

I remember multiple insiders on this board (I guess not you) telling a story about how JB went to Wildhack at some point in the years after Hop left and tried to get Wildhack to make Gmac the head coach in waiting but that Wildhack rebuffed him.

 

[CuseCPT]

If Red actually has a $20M buyout everyone in the athletics département, to include the people selling hot dogs, should be fired.

 

[Sherman20]

I'm conflicted because if we are starting all the freshmen we won't be very good. We need to hold on to Moore, hopefully Freeman and get a center plus veteran pg in the portal.

We also need Starling to come back. He’d be a senior and experience and continuity matters.

 

[Sherman20]

If Red actually has a $20M buyout everyone in the athletics département, to include the people selling hot dogs, should be fired.

He doesn’t have a $20 million buyout. Kcsu was referring to the NCAA settlement. Nothing to do with Red. People got confused.

 

[gmoney44]

Why? Seriously don't you know the answer?
Hint $$$

How can SU give a first time head coach that absolutely no one wanted at any level a contract they couldn’t afford to buyout? If that is true the people that run SU are even dumber than I thought.

 

[EnviroSciGuy]

I admire Kiyan and Sadiq for signing on for a mess.

Except that they didn't really do that, since they signed in November when all we had were alarm bells rather than a five alarm fire.

It's great that they are being positive now, but literally none of them signed on for what is currently happening.

 

[Sherman20]

Wildhack has some serious evaluations to make in the next two months. He should be identifying the best realistic coaching hires he could go after this offseason (Hodgson, McCollum, Odom, a veteran head coach looking for a change of scenery, etc) and evaluating if he can land them. Then talking to lots of outside experts to see if Red has what it takes to succeed as a head coach. I saw some worrying signs last year but I hoped he would prove to have the goods. With this season, I now worry he just doesn’t have what it takes to construct a competitive roster, implement and coach a sophisticated offense and defense, and get the players to buy in. Then Wildhack has to consider the wildcard of Melo coming in and boosting our NIL coffers big time. Would he and Kiyan stick around if Red is given the boot? These are not easy calls to make.

 

[Red2003]

We also need Starling to come back. He’d be a senior and experience and continuity matters.

JJ really really pissed me off last week. He just cannot play like he did even if his teammates throw him under the bus. He doesn't need tons of points but he cannot let his man shoot 60% on 3's and then cough up the ball 6 times.

JJ has something close to a hundred ACC starts now and a performance like that is not ok especially at home. I'm really torn on JJ, he's part of a core of players on this team that has never learned to play defense. If he stays he needs to get much better at doing things besides slashing to the rim.

 

[Red2003]

Except that they didn't really do that, since they signed in November when all we had were alarm bells rather than a five alarm fire.

It's great that they are being positive now, but literally none of them signed on for what is currently happening.

True. Maybe in their heads they just see a roster of one year portal guys that are playing terribly and not meeting expectations and gone anyway. It's probably all upside for Kiyan and Sadiq their freshman year.

1. They will get plenty of playing time
2. They will likely have the roster built around them and a say in the process.
3. If the team is still terrible next year it won't be their fault. It'll be Autry's fault.
4. If they make the tournament (a big if) but they will get alot of credit for the rebuild

At worst maybe you can say Autry messes with their development and they lose draft stock. At that point though Autry is going to be dumped anyway and they can transfer.

Random thoughts on a Saturday morning.

 

[Fly Rodder]

I'm conflicted because if we are starting all the freshmen we won't be very good. We need to hold on to Moore, hopefully Freeman and get a center plus veteran pg in the portal.

I don’t see how both Moore and Freeman stay when the two best HS recruits next season play the same positions combined with crying poor on NIL. If SU can’t come up with a lot of NIL money how are they going to keep McD AAs on the bench AND get high end portal transfers at other positions?

 

[sufan59]

Except that they didn't really do that, since they signed in November when all we had were alarm bells rather than a five alarm fire.

It's great that they are being positive now, but literally none of them signed on for what is currently happening.

Yeah atleast from the outside it felt like they were going to be able to build on whatever we did this year. Now it’s can they fix the problem. Very different perception of this program now in January 2025 than November 2024.

 

[5OutFred]

As many do, I have problems with the scheme, in-game coaching, player development, etc. But far beyond that, my number one peeve, with any coach, not just Red, is not being able to get players to play hard.

Don't let anyone tell you effort isn't a coaching thing. If Red can't get these guys to play for him, nothing else matters. This is two years of questioning players commitment to the staff, with an entirely new roster. That is unacceptable.

 

[Red2003]

I don’t see how both Moore and Freeman stay when the two best HS recruits next season play the same positions combined with crying poor on NIL. If SU can’t come up with a lot of NIL money how are they going to keep McD AAs on the bench AND get high end portal transfers at other positions?

Does anyone think we are in a world where Kiyan does not ask for NIL next year or not as much as his market value is?

We've already seen the mega rich athletes pay the NIL for their teammates in a few places. Next year is going to be just nuts. I wonder if we'll have any idea what's going on behind the scenes.