Red's system

[Niastri]

JJ and Mintz did that often. I would send you a link but you’d just ignore it so why bother.

I'd like to see it. I found the games frustrating a lot of the year, and it's hard to analyze when you want to throw something at the TV.

For the same reason, it is hard to make yourself go back and watch film.

If you have some clips that show good offense, I'd love to see them.

 

[djcon57]

I'd like to see it. I found the games frustrating a lot of the year, and it's hard to analyze when you want to throw something at the TV.

For the same reason, it is hard to make yourself go back and watch film.

If you have some clips that show good offense, I'd love to see them.

Where’d I say it was good? Mintz and JJ couldnt pull it off. But it wasn’t just occurring randomly.

 

[Millhouse]

.

It really didn't feel like we had a solid plan for when Mintz couldn't just beat his guy.

Backup plan was throw a grenade to starling and hope he can beat his guy with five seconds left or make a 2.99 pointer

 

[AZOrange]

Motion offense designed to get playmakers in space. He had high low action in there too.

 

[AZOrange]

Where’d I say it was good? Mintz and JJ couldnt pull it off. But it wasn’t just occurring randomly.

I haven’t looked but seemed like one of our higher scoring teams and I’d bet decently efficient with virtually no offensive rebounding. Defense was more problematic than offense

 

[benjams77]

Yeah it's interesting in that nobody has really answered the question.

Red has an offensive Philosophy that he explained at his Press Conf when hired.. Wants to get up tempo/transition/quick offense.. As far as continuity offense we have always run ball screen conitinuity under JB, to get matchups we like off switches.. and yes thats a continuous offense.. Gonzaga ran it for years ,,, I think Red would like more of a motion offense but a couple issues.. We cant open space for cutters cause we have 1 great shooter, and a PG that cant shoot and a post that wont. The other issue that pisses me off and I can see Red get very frustrated is that the ball sticks.and stops moving.. Ball has to move with energy... That is because we have some guys that willl not cut hard or move without the ball .. Actually Taylor moves around alot which is another reason he starts.. Taylor cant score because he is a motion offense guy and some of the other players don't move and it hnders him

Now where Red adapted this year and I saw it early on was the High Ball screen/ Drag screen action with Maliq... Our offensive numbers went up alot running this about the time Mcloud got hurt .. Judah isnt great with the high ball screens, JJ was ok and Q was great with it as a playmaker. We ran sets for Bell alot... In the tourney game Wed as soon as Bell came back from foul issues I believe we ran a nice flare set to get him open and he nailed it..

To me Reds biggest struggle with offense this year has been Baseline out of bounds.. but that usually is a struggle for new coach's putting in all there stuff.. First month our BL off was horrid... It did start to get better as the season progressed although going back to decision making... I think it was hard to find a player to throw the ball in.. Its a tougher job than you think aand takes some IQ which some players lacked

Coach's have a philosophy but adapt their offense every year based on personnel. You will se more systems at places like Princeton and Belmont where they have a specific offense and recruit High IQ players who shoot. Nate Oats at Bama's phlosophy is rythym threes and collinsions at the rim... He doesnt like mid range but that would never work for us with Judah and JJ.

I expect to see more high ball screen action next year as Maliq is very good playmaking and I assume we will see more motion and cutting action

 

[Gotothehole]

That's been one of the fogs about this season, exactly what system is Red trying to run?

The offense is anemic.

The defense is porous.

The culture seems wild & undisciplined.

A lot of this is because the 'greatest class ever' isn't very good, but still, I didn't see a system that helped the players in any way.

You do know that this was the previous administration class

 

[IthacaMatt]

Motion offense designed to get playmakers in space. He had high low action in there too.

Who was the "low" guy? Maliq was at the high post.

I don't recall seeing a dump down pass after MacLeod got hurt, and even then, they only threw it to him on the first possession or two of a half, and then completely forgot about him for the rest of the game.

 

[two3zone]

What kind of motion offense has the ball stay in the point guards hands the whole possession all the time

To be fair he will pass it to JJ first who will dribble with his right hand twice and pass it right back.

 

[two3zone]

"Jim Boeheim didn't have a system on defense."

"Sure, he did. the 2-3 zone."

"Yeah, but they didn't play it well, so doesn't count"

That's the level of debate we're seeing here.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Backup plan was throw a grenade to starling and hope he can beat his guy with five seconds left or make a 2.99 pointer

I think part of the problem is we haven’t recruited players other than the point guard and some shooting guards who have very good ball handling or passing skills. Tough to have a good motion offense with players who aren’t decent passers or ball handlers when in motion and you invert positions for spacing. (hope I’m making some sense).

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

well that's the rub isn't it. Players returning.
(I still will hold my position that Autry was part of the prior recruiting administration - he is not innocent of the roster - Boeheim didn't run a autocracy)

But Dan Hurley was a coach for eight years before assuming the role at UConn. Yes, his competition was weaker than Syracuse this year, but his Simple Rating System results were stronger.

And in his first year, even with a losing record, he didn't get blown out anywhere near how and where we did. That's the part that upsets me - the negative margin (or loss margin). We got wiped out. That *IS* coaching - if Red's players are lazily walking around, passing the ball to no one, and running offense through a single failed outlet - take control. Kicking one guy off didn't seem to have the impact it could have.

Only the HC can approve an offer. It’s not like each coach brings in X# of players whether the HC approves or not.

 

[Millhouse]

I think part of the problem is we haven’t recruited players other than the point guard and some shooting guards who have very good ball handling or passing skills. Tough to have a good motion offense with players who aren’t decent passers or ball handlers when in motion and you invert positions for spacing. (hope I’m making some sense).

It's not ideal but simply making an easy around the perimeter pass and doing anything other than stand still increases the odds that the defense becomes out of position for someone else. With guys like starling and copeland, it could've worked a little. If all else fails, just beat your guy or chuck a bad shot but that was the default. Mintz hitting cutters was never going to happen, he can't do it. Now people are saying we ran a ball screen continuity which is also not true

 

[Niastri]

Where’d I say it was good? Mintz and JJ couldnt pull it off. But it wasn’t just occurring randomly.

Lol, I understand.

I thought you maybe saw some stuff that I didn't think was happening.

I'm not saying Red wasn't trying to coach an actual offense, just that we rarely saw it on the floor.

Really, considering the last few years of JB's time as coach and the injury and behavioral issues Red coped with, the season wasn't so bad. There was a while where the his just kept coming, starting with Edwards deciding to transfer out.

I guess it goes to show how high of hopes I had for this year that a 20 win season feels this bad.

 

[Red2003]

Red has an offensive Philosophy that he explained at his Press Conf when hired.. Wants to get up tempo/transition/quick offense.. As far as continuity offense we have always run ball screen conitinuity under JB, to get matchups we like off switches.. and yes thats a continuous offense.. Gonzaga ran it for years ,,, I think Red would like more of a motion offense but a couple issues.. We cant open space for cutters cause we have 1 great shooter, and a PG that cant shoot and a post that wont. The other issue that pisses me off and I can see Red get very frustrated is that the ball sticks.and stops moving.. Ball has to move with energy... That is because we have some guys that willl not cut hard or move without the ball .. Actually Taylor moves around alot which is another reason he starts.. Taylor cant score because he is a motion offense guy and some of the other players don't move and it hnders him

Now where Red adapted this year and I saw it early on was the High Ball screen/ Drag screen action with Maliq... Our offensive numbers went up alot running this about the time Mcloud got hurt .. Judah isnt great with the high ball screens, JJ was ok and Q was great with it as a playmaker. We ran sets for Bell alot... In the tourney game Wed as soon as Bell came back from foul issues I believe we ran a nice flare set to get him open and he nailed it..

To me Reds biggest struggle with offense this year has been Baseline out of bounds.. but that usually is a struggle for new coach's putting in all there stuff.. First month our BL off was horrid... It did start to get better as the season progressed although going back to decision making... I think it was hard to find a player to throw the ball in.. Its a tougher job than you think aand takes some IQ which some players lacked

Coach's have a philosophy but adapt their offense every year based on personnel. You will se more systems at places like Princeton and Belmont where they have a specific offense and recruit High IQ players who shoot. Nate Oats at Bama's phlosophy is rythym threes and collinsions at the rim... He doesnt like mid range but that would never work for us with Judah and JJ.

I expect to see more high ball screen action next year as Maliq is very good playmaking and I assume we will see more motion and cutting action

Nailed it. He got a lot of questions on this through the year from reporters and fans too. The ball sticking and not getting spread around lost us those close games which rightfully so Autry was so pissed about.

 

[swish7]

Nailed it. He got a lot of questions on this through the year from reporters and fans too. The ball sticking and not getting spread around lost us those close games which rightfully so Autry was so pissed about.

The press conference offense is not the offense we saw. Not in the least. Hopefully that changes w different personnel & one more year of tutelage.

 

[benjams77]

The press conference offense is not the offense we saw. Not in the least. Hopefully that changes w different personnel & one more year of tutelage

Yes it was... There are other factors though.. Our Pace/Possessions per game went up considerably this year.. We were at Ranked 57th in nation at 73 Poss per game this yeat.. Last year we were 70 PG and ranked 157th.. In 2018-19 our Poss PG was 69.2 and we were ranked 261...

So without a doubt our tempo increased.. Our horrid reb number hurts tempo as we have to stay in to make sure we secure reb and not give up Off Reb. We need a true rim runner.. Maliq is a rim runner but playing post he has to get the rebound alot and we have no other rim runners

Teams race back on Def and make us play HC again cause we lack shooters.. They run back and build a wall inside and shrink the floor to make Judah operate in small spaces

Finally going back to my other posts, we have awful decision makers as ball handlers.. How many times have we thrown lobs that were not there and how many times has Q taken it 1 on 4 in transition and forced a bad shot.. Guys need to run the floor and space... Red said "Pace and Space" in PC before season... We lack the Space and it makes a huge difference.

 

[billsin01]

What will the excuses be next year?

This is fine and you may prove to be right. Red (or I suppose maybe GMac or, I suppose in a bigger surprise, maybe Hop) was always going to be where they turned with JB retiring. The point being it was going to stay in-house.

So red may not be the long-term answer here. That’s a logical opinion. Not sure anyone knows at this point for sure.

However, I’m not sure I understand the ‘blah, blah, blah’ no excuses thing. We have struggled as a program for a while. With the massive changes in college sports, we may have a tough time ever truly recapturing our glory days.

Whoever came in here was going to have some work to do. Giving whoever the hire was a couple years to figure things out is important. Does Red learn a few things from year 1? It’s not a given but it’s certainly a possibility. Do some roster changes help? Potentially. If we miss the tourney again in year 2, will he be on the hot seat? I would think so.

I’m not saying you sit around crossing your fingers for 8 years with red, but constantly hammering the guy during and after one year where we actually did some solid things and got to 20 wins seems unnecessarily harsh to me.

 

[dollarbill44]

What will the excuses be next year?

Keep it going.

 

[dollarbill44]

Yes it was... There are other factors though.. Our Pace/Possessions per game went up considerably this year.. We were at Ranked 57th in nation at 73 Poss per game this yeat.. Last year we were 70 PG and ranked 157th.. In 2018-19 our Poss PG was 69.2 and we were ranked 261...

So without a doubt our tempo increased.. Our horrid reb number hurts tempo as we have to stay in to make sure we secure reb and not give up Off Reb. We need a true rim runner.. Maliq is a rim runner but playing post he has to get the rebound alot and we have no other rim runners

Teams race back on Def and make us play HC again cause we lack shooters.. They run back and build a wall inside and shrink the floor to make Judah operate in small spaces

Finally going back to my other posts, we have awful decision makers as ball handlers.. How many times have we thrown lobs that were not there and how many times has Q taken it 1 on 4 in transition and forced a bad shot.. Guys need to run the floor and space... Red said "Pace and Space" in PC before season... We lack the Space and it makes a huge difference.

So, we need to go to the larger, Michigan-sized court?

 

[billsin01]

Lol, I understand.

I thought you maybe saw some stuff that I didn't think was happening.

I'm not saying Red wasn't trying to coach an actual offense, just that we rarely saw it on the floor.

Really, considering the last few years of JB's time as coach and the injury and behavioral issues Red coped with, the season wasn't so bad. There was a while where the his just kept coming, starting with Edwards deciding to transfer out.

I guess it goes to show how high of hopes I had for this year that a 20 win season feels this bad.

After I saw the exhibitions I was concerned we wouldn’t get to 10. Maybe I’m just super pessimistic but I didn’t love what I saw from JJ — it was ok but not super exciting. McLeod felt like a bad fit, Benny looked like the same Benny, Taylor and Bell were OK but didn’t look like difference-makers. I liked what I saw from Cuffe, Brown, and Q but it felt really wobbly to me.

So 20 feels pretty solid.

My bottom line with this is getting all worked up about red being awesome or terrible seems premature. What I want to see next season is what he does in terms of bringing guys in and what tweaks/adjustments we see on both sides of the ball.

Defense is more concerning to me because the communication wasn’t great and it felt like a lot of straight up man, which is really tough to play unless you have really, really good defenders 1-5 … and even then there has to be some concept of help and we probably need to work in a little bit of 1-3-1 zone or something to try and steal some minutes with McLeod.

Offensively I didn’t love it but felt like we were better as the season wore on. Re-setting the high ball screen to create and actual advantage for Judah was a key adjustment. Ran a few sets for Bell the last couple games. Started to see more movement (Benny was actually decent, q was good, Taylor late started to move more decisively). Feel like if we can continue to push player/ball movement and build on what we saw a bit more in Feb, it’s at least less of a concern.

But between who we pick up and what we’re running, I’m very curious to see what we look like next season. Decent debut, but need a stronger encore.

 

[tbonezone]

preseason i'm on record here saying we would dance. i thought we had enuf skill at each position to make some noise. unfortunately this season to me we created more noise than harmony.