Regression of Tyler Roberson

[Ghost]

Playing Roberson over Thompson or Lydon is not the move. They are the only two guys that can score.

That's a bit of an exaggeration, but you can have a rotation where they all see a lot of minutes. Lydon being the one guy that we can't really replace.

Thompson has been good, but even he has shown regression when the other team isn't awful.

Roberson has actually excelled against the Dukes of the world at times in his tenure. That's something... Lol

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

the guy with oven mitts for hands should play more?

Yep...The same guy who was instrumental in our FF run last year. The same one who's been here for 4 years and has dealt more abuse (yes, abuse) from JB than he should of. Yes, the same kid who's dealt with that abuse with nothing but class...

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

Playing Roberson over Thompson or Lydon is not the move. They are the only two guys that can score.

Move Gillon to the point and move White to the 2. Play Roberson at the 4. If Gillon can't handle it, play Battle at point...How about that?

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Move Gillon to the point and move White to the 2. Play Roberson at the 4. If Gillon can't handle it, play Battle at point...How about that?

White is awful there as well.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

White is awful there as well.

So, then if he doesn't play defense, sit his ass down. The only way this team gets better (and has improved chemistry) is if they play defense. The offense will improve when the defense improves and not the other way around.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Move Gillon to the point and move White to the 2. Play Roberson at the 4. If Gillon can't handle it, play Battle at point...How about that?

Battle's been as bad as Howard.

 

[pfister1]

when you give 3 years to a program, and then your coach benches you in your senior year in favor of a trash grad transfer one-trick pony, I can imagine your confidence getting shook.

He wasn't "benched" until after the S. Carolina game. What I believe I have seen is that Roberson hasn't been engaged like he has been at times in the past. He hasn't been rebounding and playing defense like he did in the run last year. As a result he has lost playing time because if he doesn't do the things that warrant him being in the lineup, what is the argument for having him in the lineup. Give me last year's Robie and he belongs in there and you find another way to get your offense. If he doesn't bring last year's effort and intensity than his position is where you look to try to add offense.

And frankly you can't try to win by playing a defensive brand of game if you have a sieve at the top of the zone. So far I haven't seen any combination of players that looks like it will change that.

Ultimately JB isn't thinking about individuals, he is working to find the combination that will give us the best chance to win.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

Battle's been as bad as Howard.

I disagree. Not on defense. The point is, we need to get Roberson on the floor so at least the wings are solid. I really believe that if JB and crew really push the issue that defense is the key to success, that they won't win without it and don't allow anyone (ie, white/gillon/howard) to not buy in, then they will improve. These kids have talent...They are not being motivated properly.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

He wasn't "benched" until after the S. Carolina game. What I believe I have seen is that Roberson hasn't been engaged like he has been at times in the past. He hasn't been rebounding and playing defense like he did in the run last year. As a result he has lost playing time because if he doesn't do the things that warrant him being in the lineup, what is the argument for having him in the lineup. Give me last year's Robie and he belongs in there and you find another way to get your offense. If he doesn't bring last year's effort and intensity than his position is where you look to try to add offense.

So, after one loss he's benched while Gillon/White/Howard stink up the joint. Even before SC, Tyler had a freshman like leash attached to his neck. He deserves a little respect from his head coach. With regard to adding offense, White's +/- in that regard has been total and absolute failure.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I disagree. Not on defense. The point is, we need to get Roberson on the floor so at least the wings are solid. I really believe that if JB and crew really push the issue that defense is the key to success, that they won't win without it and don't allow anyone (ie, white/gillon/howard) to not buy in, then they will improve. These kids have talent...They are not being motivated properly.

Play Lydon/Roberson/Thompson maybe? I can agree with that. I think Battle has some potential, but he is not good right now. I said on another thread that he's not even as good as freshman year Brandon Triche. People here think he can be Dion/Malachi.

 

[pfister1]

So, after one loss he's benched while Gillon/White/Howard stink up the joint. Even before SC, Tyler had a freshman like leash attached to his neck. He deserves a little respect from his head coach. With regard to adding offense, White's +/- in that regard has been total and absolute failure.

I assume it had a lot more to do with his overall attitude/approach then it had to do with one loss. Do you really think the players are evaluated based solely on what happens in games?

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

I assume it had a lot more to do with his overall attitude/approach then it had to do with one loss. Do you really think the players are evaluated based solely on what happens in games?

Of course I don't. But the benching of Roberson was a fait complete. JB has never liked him and has treated him horribly for 4 years. This year, with White, he had his chance to not play him. And the result has been a spectacular failure.

Now, I suspect what happened to Roberson is that he saw the writing on the wall with White coming in. I also suspect that his role in practice was diminished to the point where he began to check out. Frankly, I don't know that I blame him because I wouldn't of tolerated the abuse he's taken.

Bottom line though is that the current starting lineup is the WORST defensive team I've ever seen and White at the 4 has a ton to do with it.

 

[pfister1]

Of course I don't. But the benching of Roberson was a fait complete. JB has never liked him and has treated him horribly for 4 years. This year, with White, he had his chance to not play him. And the result has been a spectacular failure.

Now, I suspect what happened to Roberson is that he saw the writing on the wall with White coming in. I also suspect that his role in practice was diminished to the point where he began to check out. Frankly, I don't know that I blame him because I wouldn't of tolerated the abuse he's taken.

Bottom line though is that the current starting lineup is the WORST defensive team I've ever seen and White at the 4 has a ton to do with it.

To the extent that it was a fait accompli, I think that was set up by the make up of the roster and not any personal feelings that JB has for Roberson. JB has demonstrated for the last 40+ years that he would trip your grandmother crossing the street if he thought it would help win a basketball game. I think JB felt he needed something on the offensive end out of Roberson more than he needed defense out of White. Roberson hasn't been able to develop that aspect of his game at all and therefore his playing time has diminished. Add to that that he hasn't seemed this season to do what he is good at with the same effort and tenacity as he has in the past and the impact to his playing time gets compounded. Now, not only does he lose the 35+ mpg role he probably feels he should be getting as a fourth year player, but he is also starting to lose the 20 mpg he seemed to be destined to get this season.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Of course I don't. But the benching of Roberson was a fait complete. JB has never liked him and has treated him horribly for 4 years. This year, with White, he had his chance to not play him. And the result has been a spectacular failure.

Now, I suspect what happened to Roberson is that he saw the writing on the wall with White coming in. I also suspect that his role in practice was diminished to the point where he began to check out. Frankly, I don't know that I blame him because I wouldn't of tolerated the abuse he's taken.

Bottom line though is that the current starting lineup is the WORST defensive team I've ever seen and White at the 4 has a ton to do with it.

I love it when someone else on here see's the game the way I see it and takes up the battles I've long ago given up on. I loved Robey. Always felt coach was holding him to a different standard that was somehow unreasonable.

Fight on brother!

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

To the extent that it was a fait accompli, I think that was set up by the make up of the roster and not any personal feelings that JB has for Roberson. JB has demonstrated for the last 40+ years that he would trip your grandmother crossing the street if he thought it would help win a basketball game. I think JB felt he needed something on the offensive end out of Roberson more than he needed defense out of White. Roberson hasn't been able to develop that aspect of his game at all and therefore his playing time has diminished. Add to that that he hasn't seemed this season to do what he is good at with the same effort and tenacity as he has in the past and the impact to his playing time gets compounded. Now, not only does he lose the 35+ mpg role he probably feels he should be getting as a fourth year player, but he is also starting to lose the 20 mpg he seemed to be destined to get this season.

I wish I shared your sense of fair play. For what I've witnessed is verbal abuse that would get any manager in US fired and it's a wonder Tyler (and JB for that matter) is still around at all. Anyway, my perspective is a lot different than yours on what happened. But I can tell you with no uncertainty that unless Roberson plays 30+ minutes a game we will continue to have the worst defense in the history of SU basketball.

 

[RF2044]

To the extent that it was a fait accompli, I think that was set up by the make up of the roster and not any personal feelings that JB has for Roberson. JB has demonstrated for the last 40+ years that he would trip your grandmother crossing the street if he thought it would help win a basketball game. I think JB felt he needed something on the offensive end out of Roberson more than he needed defense out of White. Roberson hasn't been able to develop that aspect of his game at all and therefore his playing time has diminished. Add to that that he hasn't seemed this season to do what he is good at with the same effort and tenacity as he has in the past and the impact to his playing time gets compounded. Now, not only does he lose the 35+ mpg role he probably feels he should be getting as a fourth year player, but he is also starting to lose the 20 mpg he seemed to be destined to get this season.

I am a fan of Roberson, and sorry that his senior season has unfolded this way, given that he was such an important cog in our postseason run last year.

But I agree with everything you say above. Roberson's biggest issue IMO is that he's so limited. He's a 6-7 guy who has played around 210 pounds his entire career, until this season when he noticeably put on some muscle. At that size, he's too small to play center [unlike Lydon], he shows zero defensive aptitude despite being a multi-year starter, and he's a negligible shotblocker.

If he's been able to slide over to center--say, if he were more like 6-9 and a shotblocker who could patrol the middle for us--I think his career would have been completely different.

And this year, JB not only has Lydon but also another capable 4 in Taurean Thompson to utilize. So he's not locked into the one-dimensionality of Roberson anymore, like he was last season. It's unfortunate, but Roberson could still carve out a niche if he played better. Not singling him out given that the entire team is underachieving, just pointing out that Roberson isn't making the case for additional PT with his play.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

I am a fan of Roberson, and sorry that his senior season has unfolded this way, given that he was such an important cog in our postseason run last year.

But I agree with everything you say above. Roberson's biggest issue IMO is that he's so limited. He's a 6-7 guy who has played around 210 pounds his entire career, until this season when he noticeably put on some muscle. At that size, he's too small to play center [unlike Lydon], he shows zero defensive aptitude despite being a multi-year starter, and he's a negligible shotblocker.

If he's been able to slide over to center--say, if he were more like 6-9 and a shotblocker who could patrol the middle for us--I think his career would have been completely different.

And this year, JB not only has Lydon but also another capable 4 in Taurean Thompson to utilize. So he's not locked into the one-dimensionality of Roberson anymore, like he was last season. It's unfortunate, but Roberson could still carve out a niche if he played better. Not singling him out given that the entire team is underachieving, just pointing out that Roberson isn't making the case for additional PT with his play.

Okay, I get what you're saying. But tell me how White makes us a better defensive team (or how his offense has made up for his lack of defense and rebounding)?

I'm suggesting that a limited Roberson at the four is a better fit that White at the three or four.

 

[RF2044]

Okay, I get what you're saying. But tell me how White makes us a better defensive team (or how his offense has made up for his lack of defense and rebounding)?

White doesn't make us a "better" defensive team, because he is lousy defensively [and was an even bigger liability during his brief stint at the top of the zone], but Roberson is no great shakes defensively himself--so I view that as a wash.

A better question is: does Roberson's rebounding and little else warrant him playing ahead of Lydon, Thompson, or Coleman?

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

White doesn't make us a "better" defensive team, because he is lousy defensively [and was an even bigger liability during his brief stint at the top of the zone], but Roberson is no great shakes defensively himself--so I view that as a wash.

A better question is: does Roberson's rebounding and little else warrant him playing ahead of Lydon, Thompson, or Coleman?

Defensively, it's not even close. But again, we have a difference of opinion.

On White, my perspective is very simple: He plays defense or he doesn't play. He's not close to being good enough offensively to get a free ride.

 

[RF2044]

Defensively, it's not even close. But again, we have a difference of opinion.

On White, my perspective is very simple: He plays defense or he doesn't play. He's not close to being good enough offensively to get a free ride.

I think you are overrating Roberson defensively by a wide margin. He's never been a strong zone defender throughout his entire career.

I have no problem with your hard line stance on White. White could be a difference maker as a shooter offensively if this team ran a structured offense that could get him the ball where he can be effective, because White cannot create on his own. However, our guard play stinks, our offensive execution blows, and we don't run that kind of offense. So White has struggled.

But again, this isn't about Roberson v. White. Roberson isn't going to play out there in a lineup with Lydon and Thompson [or Coleman for one of those two] because he lacks the ability to play on the perimeter or do anything offensively. All three of the other bigs can at least put the ball in the basket. So JB is going with them over Robey. Now, tbonezone brought up some really compelling arguments the other day about whether the rebounding is more important than other issues we're having. That's an interesting discussion--especially given how sorry our rebounding has been.

But I don't view it as a White / Roberson issue. Roberson has lost time because JB has elected to play Lydon at the 4 and Thompson at the 4 ahead of him.

 

[Ghost]

White doesn't make us a "better" defensive team, because he is lousy defensively [and was an even bigger liability during his brief stint at the top of the zone], but Roberson is no great shakes defensively himself--so I view that as a wash.

A better question is: does Roberson's rebounding and little else warrant him playing ahead of Lydon, Thompson, or Coleman?

FWIW, I would ply him over DC all day with Lydon and Thompson getting some minutes at center. I get what DC brings to the table, but on this team he's a liability. I've seen what Roberson can do when he's locked in too - I'd rather play for that upside.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

I think you are overrating Roberson defensively by a wide margin. He's never been a strong zone defender throughout his entire career.

I have no problem with your hard line stance on White. White could be a difference maker as a shooter offensively if this team ran a structured offense that could get him the ball where he can be effective, because White cannot create on his own. However, our guard play stinks, our offensive execution blows, and we don't run that kind of offense. So White has struggled.

But again, this isn't about Roberson v. White. Roberson isn't going to play out there in a lineup with Lydon and Thompson [or Coleman for one of those two] because he lacks the ability to play on the perimeter or do anything offensively. All three of the other bigs can at least put the ball in the basket. So JB is going with them over Robey. Now, tbonezone brought up some really compelling arguments the other day about whether the rebounding is more important than other issues we're having. That's an interesting discussion--especially given how sorry our rebounding has been.

But I don't view it as a White / Roberson issue. Roberson has lost time because JB has elected to play Lydon at the 4 and Thompson at the 4 ahead of him.

Fair enough on White/Roberson.

I think Lydon is really a 3 playing out of position but I get your point. And yes, our guard play is absolutely horrible. But I think our offensive woes can be mitigated quite a bit if we played reasonable defense. And Roberson on the floor is an improvement over White at the wing. Lydon/Roberson/Thompson are the best three defensive forwards we have and should be playing the majority of the minutes there.

If you want White on the floor, play him at the 2 and make him learn how to play there.

 

[RF2044]

FWIW, I would ply him over DC all day with Lydon and Thompson getting some minutes at center. I get what DC brings to the table, but on this team he's a liability. I've seen what Roberson can do when he's locked in too - I'd rather play for that upside.

As stated above, the worst thing about Roberson is that he can't play center because he's too small and isn't a shot blocker. If he could do that, he'd play a ton over Coleman and we'd be a better team. We could get away with the lack of offense and him being a rebounding specialist if he could handle the responsibilities of the 5 in our system.

But he can't, so JB is going with other bigs.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

As stated above, the worst thing about Roberson is that he can't play center because he's too small and isn't a shot blocker. If he could do that, he'd play a ton over Coleman and we'd be a better team. We could get away with the lack of offense and him being a rebounding specialist if he could handle the responsibilities of the 5 in our system.

But he can't, so JB is going with other bigs.

That he is...And how's it worked out so far? I think we get the thought process but it's failed miserably.

 

[RF2044]

Fair enough on White/Roberson.

I think Lydon is really a 3 playing out of position but I get your point. And yes, our guard play is absolutely horrible. But I think our offensive woes can be mitigated quite a bit if we played reasonable defense. And Roberson on the floor is an improvement over White at the wing. Lydon/Roberson/Thompson are the best three defensive forwards we have and should be playing the majority of the minutes there.

If you want White on the floor, play him at the 2 and make him learn how to play there.

See, where I completely disagree with you is on Lydon having the skills to be a 3, and White to be a 2. We already ran that experiment, and it was a miserable failure. And this isn't directed at you specifically, but there were a lot of people who wanted to see them play those spots b/c it would be what was best for each of their respective NBA chances, but no amount of wishful thinking changes the fact that both players were poorly suited for those positions.

And White's defensive issues were exacerbated playing up top. So if you're up in arms about his defense now...

I guess that the biggest challenge here is that so much is going wrong--this is a systemic breakdown, not just a onesey-twosey thing that needs to get adjusted to fix the problem. I can't imagine any circumstances where playing Roberson, Lydon, and Thompson together would be an effective combo on either end of the floor.