Roy williams: most overrated coach

[ORRange]

Roy seems like a good guy and is an excellent recruiter. His record at Carolina has been damn good. Neither team appeared to play much defense tonight. It's a long way to the tournament and most teams including ours will have their ups and downs. At the end of the day, the only thing that matters is how the team performs during the tournament. Loses during the season only impact seeding.

For some reason I always thought that Roy looks a lot like Tim Conway.

Yeah, Conway always cracked me up. So does Roy never taking a timeout during a run by the other team.

 

[rrlbees]

Because of missed free throws. That's not on Roy.

Yea it is because the missed FTs weren't a freak happening.

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[rrlbees]

And Roy has more NTs than the vast majority of those peers...so I think that's probably alright with him.

You don't get it do you?

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[HOFCeluck]

I have no idea what qualifies a coach as being overrated. I guess by the OP's criteria Dean Smith was overrated? Well hell, maybe Jim Boeheim? Whatever.

Except Roy got to take over two blue blood programs. ... and JB got tHis job because his boss left for the coaching job at Tulane

 

[IthacaBarrel]

With a NC. His team is bipolar and that all falls on him.

Rough post... Guy has two national championships, multiple final fours and a fantastic winning percentage. Yet, he's overrated. He's coaches for two of the most storied programs in all of college basketball. Pretty solid career. Who next? Coach K is overrated? Bob Knight? Calhoun sucks too? Pitino? Geeze

UNC had two coaches after Dean Smith before Roy I believe, didn't work out that well. Regardless, he has two national championships and a bunch of final fours, enough said

 

[HOFCeluck]

Roy could not accomplish at a place like Syracuse what JB had.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

His peers voted him the most overated as well. Ill side with them. http://blogs.newsobserver.com/uncnow/roy-williams-most-overrated-coach-according-to-peers

The line in there that bugs me is this one -
CBSSports.com ran an anonymous quote with some of the coaches who were named to the list, and here’s the one about Williams: “He’s won at Kansas and UNC. But who couldn’t do that … besides Matt Doherty?”

Read more here: http://blogs.newsobserver.com/uncno...rrated-coach-according-to-peers#storylink=cpy

I'm fairly certain Doherty would have gotten one himself with the talent he amassed for the school and that gave Roy boy his first NC.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

UNC had two coaches after Dean Smith before Roy I believe, didn't work out that well. Regardless, he has two national championships and a bunch of final fours, enough said

Didn't go all that well? Seems like Guthridge did okay in his short time there.

Bill Guthridge (1997–2000)[edit]
Smith unexpectedly retired before the start of practice for the 1997–98 season. He was succeeded by Bill Guthridge, who had been an assistant coach at the school for 30 years, the last 25 as Smith's top assistant. During Guthridge's three seasons as head coach he posted an 80–28 record, making him tied for the then-NCAA record for most wins by a coach after three seasons.[30] The Tar Heels reached the NCAA Final Four twice, in the 1998 tournament and again in the 2000 tournament. North Carolina reached the Final Four in 2000 as an 8-seed, their lowest seeding in a Final Four appearance.[31]

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Lots of coaches would kill for 2 national championships, my only point. Coach Knight had how many? 3? Was he overrated as well? How many has Indiana won since? At that factory school? Dean Smith as well. Geeze.

I don't buy the factory school argument. Guys that build consistent winners year in year out are OK in my book and Williams winning percentage is pretty GD good. 2 seasons without 20 wins in 26 years and one was 19. Call me crazy I guess. Guy is a good coach

 

[PoppyHart]

Lots of coaches would kill for 2 national championships, my only point. Coach Knight had how many? 3? Was he overrated as well? How many has Indiana won since? At that factory school? Dean Smith as well. Geeze.

I don't buy the factory school argument. Guys that build consistent winners year in year out are OK in my book and Williams winning percentage is pretty GD good. 2 seasons without 20 wins in 26 years and one was 19. Call me crazy I guess. Guy is a good coach

Yep, and he took over a team that was on probation in one of those 19 win years, and had them in the national championship game in year 3. But that just ruins the story.

The roster consisted of the following, two of whom played in the NBA, one for 10 games and one for 127 games, with zero combined starts:

Adonis Jordan (10 games in NBA)
Alonzo Jamison
Mike Maddox
Mark Randall (127 games in NBA; Honorable mention AA in 1991)
Terry Brown
Kirk Wagner
Steve Woodberry
Doug Elstun
David Johanning
Malcom Nash
Patrick Richey
Richard Scott
Sean Tunstall

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Yep, and he took over a team that was on probation in one of those 19 win years, and had them in the national championship game in year 3. But that just ruins the story.

The roster consisted of the following, two of whom played in the NBA, one for 10 games and one for 127 games, with zero combined starts:

Adonis Jordan (10 games in NBA)
Alonzo Jamison
Mike Maddox
Mark Randall (127 games in NBA; Honorable mention AA in 1991)
Terry Brown
Kirk Wagner
Steve Woodberry
Doug Elstun
David Johanning
Malcom Nash
Patrick Richey
Richard Scott
Sean Tunstall

overrated? What. I just don't get it and I am not a huge fan of the guy either

 

[OttoMets]

And they lost to 3 unranked teams. That to me is on the coach. We can agree to disagree.

I'm inclined to agree with that (generally, not all the time).

To be fair, though, when Syracuse was getting thumped by unranked teams a few times a season (up until four years ago), it was blasphemous to suggest that the coach was responsible.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Overrated and bad aren't synonyms.

 

[albanycuse]

I'm inclined to agree with that (generally, not all the time). To be fair, though, when Syracuse was getting thumped by unranked teams a few times a season (up until four years ago), it was blasphemous to suggest that the coach was responsible.

How do you correlate the two? UNC sells itself and Roy underachieved with some of that talent. We were getting Theus and Davis at one point. Ugly times.

 

[retro44]

His peers voted him the most overated as well. Ill side with them. http://blogs.newsobserver.com/uncnow/roy-williams-most-overrated-coach-according-to-peers

you have to take experts opinions on this.

didn't know they had such opinion polls.

was JB. is this sample poll?

 

[br801]

Daggumit, this thread is making me tear up.

Cut ol' Roy some slack. Nobody cares more about those kids in the locker room than that man.

 

[OttoMets]

How do you correlate the two? UNC sells itself and Roy underachieved with some of that talent. We were getting Theus and Davis at one point. Ugly times.

First, I don't put too much stock into recruiting ratings. Does North Carolina get five-star-quality guys, or do North Carolina's recruits get five-star ratings because North Carolina is recruiting them? Some of each, probably.

Second, the Theus/Davis years were objectively lean years for SU; less was expected of us (and should've been). I'm thinking of the Golden Era teams (who were up and down, arguably talented enough to put together incredible records, but always racking up 8 losses with a number of upsets) and even the 2004-2009 teams.

Not trying to equate Boeheim and Williams or draw any direct comparisons; just pointing out that if the coach must be blamed for underachieving, it hits a little close to home.

 

[kirbivore]

he also only has 2 national titles. Should have more he got beat by Boeheim once in the title game, and once in the Elite 8 when he was a decent sized favorite with the more talented teams. I don't think anyone is going to mistake Williams for a coach genius

I'm no fan of Roy but Dean Smith "only" won 2 titles as well.

 

[kirbivore]

Daggumit, this thread is making me tear up.

 

[BostonOrange]

How do you correlate the two? UNC sells itself and Roy underachieved with some of that talent. We were getting Theus and Davis at one point. Ugly times.

I don't really agree that he is overrated, but I was thinking that maybe Roy has slipped a bit in the last few years, and that the Barnes\Marshall\Zeller\Henson teams probably weren't as good as they should have been. But then I looked at the #'s and both those teams were 14-2 in the ACC and got to the Elite 8. And Kendall Marshall broke his wrist in the 2nd round one year so...not sure that is really underachieving. I know he has had blue blood programs but as another poster pointed out KU was in dire straights when he got there, and UNC was in the NIT the year before he got there. It isn't like being at a blue blood guarantees NC's - see Ben Howland, Steve Lavin, Kelvin Sampson, Tom Crean, Billy Gillespie, Matt Doherty, and Roy Danforth (kidding).

 

[Upstate]

I was going to throw Rick Barnes out there, but I think everyone just thinks he's a shitty coach these days.

 

[HOFCeluck]

I think the greatest program in basketball would have survived a little probation. ... even without Roys brilliant guidance.