Rutgers Sues The Big East

[Scooch]

Was listening to a CT sports radio show last night and the host was discussing (1) how predictably classless Rutgers was in filing this suit, and (2) how bad it looks compared to the professional way Syracuse went about leaving the conference.

Nice to see people notice.

 

[Townie72]

Was listening to a CT sports radio show last night and the host was discussing (1) how predictably classless Rutgers was in filing this suit, and (2) how bad it looks compared to the professional way Syracuse went about leaving the conference.

Nice to see people notice.

The Big East ought to counter sue. from 1991 to 2005, Rutgers put no effort into football while cashing Big East checks. They were a parasite. Big East ought to be able to recover those payments with interest.

 

[Scooch]

The Big East ought to counter sue. from 1991 to 2005, Rutgers put no effort into football while cashing Big East checks. They were a parasite. Big East ought to be able to recover those payments with interest.

Amen. Rutgers and Temple were unconscionable anchors on the football conference in the 90s. Imagine if the BE actually had competitive teams in NJ and Philly? Think its media value would've been higher?

 

[ClkWrkOrange]

Amen. Rutgers and Temple were unconscionable anchors on the football conference in the 90s. Imagine if the BE actually had competitive teams in NJ and Philly? Think its media value would've been higher?

At least Temple has somewhat of an excuse.Rutgers wasn't even trying.

 

[orange79]

At least Temple has somewhat of an excuse.Rutgers wasn't even trying.

What was Temple's excuse?

 

[Townie72]

What was Temple's excuse?

Let's see ...

Temple isn't "The State University". It's state-funded, but not "The State University"

New Brunswick is a crappy place, but Temple is located in a "War Zone". It's reallllly bad! I'd require a humvee with an escort to visit.

Rutgers had a band box of a stadium and averaged 20,000. Temple played at the Vet, a pro stadium, far away from campus and averaged 7,000.

Temple had football competition from Penn and Villanova and to a degree, Penn State. Rutgers had Princeton.

 

[ClkWrkOrange]

What was Temple's excuse?

IMO,they are not a school that ever could compete in BCS level FB.It's a very tough place to recruit to.They have NO fan support,few resources and are a very distant third in perception and impotance in their own state.Very different from RUs situation,IMO.

 

[OrangePA]

Maybe so, but Rutgers has a better legal argument to avoid a surcharge because of TCU. No penalty was applied.

Sure, you can make the argument that they never played a game in the league, but they were members and signed the contract. The Big East acted with discretion in waiving the fee, but they were probably legally entitled to it.

I'm not saying Rutgers is going to get off, in part because the Big East doesn't have a $50M exit clause. If the Big East did, Rutgers would have a better chance than Maryland of reducing or overturning it, because of how the Big East has treated teams differently who left the conference in the past few years. One was let out altogether, one went to court and paid extra to leave the very next season, two others paid a little less extra to leave after 1 more season, and right now for the Big East to try to hold anyone to 27 months in the current state of college conference affiliations is maybe the worst part of the exit conditions.

I just don't see that.

WVU is the better model.

Rutgers will pay more to leave early.

 

[ClkWrkOrange]

Let's see ...

Temple isn't "The State University". It's state-funded, but not "The State University"

New Brunswick is a crappy place, but Temple is located in a "War Zone". It's reallllly bad! I'd require a humvee with an escort to visit.

Rutgers had a band box of a stadium and averaged 20,000. Temple played at the Vet, a pro stadium, far away from campus and averaged 7,000.

Temple had football competition from Penn and Villanova and to a degree, Penn State. Rutgers had Princeton.

tyvm.

 

[Arizona Knight]

Amen. Rutgers and Temple were unconscionable anchors on the football conference in the 90s. Imagine if the BE actually had competitive teams in NJ and Philly? Think its media value would've been higher?

It was around the summer of 2003 that Miami, BC and Syracuse were letting everyone else in the Big East know that this was all business and not a social club.

 

[RICuse44]

It was around the summer of 2003 that Miami, BC and Syracuse were letting everyone else in the Big East know that this was all business and not a social club.

And since that time Rutgers greatest accomplishment? Texas bowl!

 

[Scooch]

It was around the summer of 2003 that Miami, BC and Syracuse were letting everyone else in the Big East know that this was all business and not a social club.

OK. What does that have to do with Rutgers shameful neglect of its football program during the first dozen years of the BEFC?

 

[All4SU]

It was around the summer of 2003 that Miami, BC and Syracuse were letting everyone else in the Big East know that this was all business and not a social club.

So you're saying that prior to that Buttgers thought we were hanging out with you guys because we liked you?

 

[xc84]

It was around the summer of 2003 that Miami, BC and Syracuse were letting everyone else in the Big East know that this was all business and not a social club.

Maybe so. However, Cuse kept things above board. They never sued anyone and remained solid members of the BE.

 

[Arizona Knight]

OK. What does that have to do with Rutgers shameful neglect of its football program during the first dozen years of the BEFC?

It wasn't so much "neglect" as it was incompetance. Rutgers did a MAJOR renovation of the stadium in 1994 going from a 27,000 seat stadium made up of rotted wooden bleachers (if you were there you know I'm not kidding) to semi-modern 42,000 seat stadium with metal seats. We subsequently built the Hale Center. A little more than a decade later and we poured another $100+ million into the stadium complex and that finally put us on par with most of our competiton.

Without knowing the exact figures, I would guess that Rutgers has spent more money on its football infrastructure than any other team in the Big East since its inception.

That said, Terry Shea set the program back a decade and we seemingly didn't have anywhere to go but up when he took over. He made GRob look like Vince Lombardi.

 

[oldpinepoint]

It wasn't so much "neglect" as it was incompetance. Rutgers did a MAJOR renovation of the stadium in 1994 going from a 27,000 seat stadium made up of rotted wooden bleachers (if you were there you know I'm not kidding) to semi-modern 42,000 seat stadium with metal seats. We subsequently built the Hale Center. A little more than a decade later and we poured another $100+ million into the stadium complex and that finally put us on par with most of our competiton.

Without knowing the exact figures, I would guess that Rutgers has spent more money on its football infrastructure than any other team in the Big East since its inception.

That said, Terry Shea set the program back a decade and we seemingly didn't have anywhere to go but up when he took over. He made GRob look like Vince Lombardi.

I thought Terry Shea did a great job with the program, just like im sure you think GRob did a fantastic job at SU. All the lawsuit does is force the issue with the Big East. I'm assuming that Rutgers was given some timeline much like WVU was. Louisville will probably ride your coat tails out of the POS conference.

 

[HtownOrange]

So very true. For a long long long time, rutgirls didn't put one plug nickel into the BE kitty. All they did was take take take. While other schools were going to bowl games or NCAA basketball tournaments or both and putting money into the BE kitty for disbursement to ALL achools, rutgirls was sitting at home watching on TV and accepting those BE welfare checks.

Whether it was the BE, the rutgirls general student fund or the state of NJ, all they did was have their hand out. Their claim to any fame is a Thursday night game 6 years ago and a few piddly paying bowl games that after expenses, probably netted the BE $1.89.

Now THEY want to sue? THEY wanted the increased fees. What a sad program.

I would add that Rutgers still has not added to the Big East. They have had a decent football team these last few years but no fan base marks he calendar, buys the best tickets their budget allows and plans their day/evening around the Rutgers game coming to play their favorite school. Rutgers has increased their own ticket sales but that helps no one, including, apparently, their own athletics fund.

I hope they enjoy their return to the basement and the standard in-conference body-bag game they have always been.

P.S. I still am not convinced that the B1G moniker will help them recruit. More likely that Michigan, OSU and the others get more Jersey kids than before.

 

[xc84]

That said, Terry Shea set the program back a decade and we seemingly didn't have anywhere to go but up when he took over. He made GRob look like Vince Lombardi.

How did Terry Shea "set the program back a decade" when the prior two coaches each had a "winning" percentage of 44%?

From 1980-2004, Rutgers had 5 winning seasons, 18 losing seasons, and two even seasons. Let's not pretend that Rutgers had climbed up some sort of success ladder prior to Shea. And it's not like those decades were chock full of tough schedules either.

 

[Arizona Knight]

P.S. I still am not convinced that the B1G moniker will help them recruit. More likely that Michigan, OSU and the others get more Jersey kids than before.

See, this is the part that makes zero sense to me. Michigan and OSU can find NJ on the map and have always had success in NJ. Eli Woodward, easily the best player in NJ this year will sign with the Buckeye's in February. So how does their "pitch" improve now that Rutgers has joined the B1G? Do they sell the parents on the idea that they will get to see their kids play right in their backyards every other year (at best)? If that were imprtant to a parent, then you would think that 7 games a year in their own backyard would be even better.

It certainly isn't the increased exposure for OSU or Michigan in NJ because I'm pretty sure they're not playing on ESPN3 today.

I'm not sure how anyone can even attempt to make a case that Rutgers will be a harder sell to recruits now that we will be joining the B1G. Logic just doesn't support the argument.

 

[OrangeMojo]

See, this is the part that makes zero sense to me. Michigan and OSU can find NJ on the map and have always had success in NJ. Eli Woodward, easily the best player in NJ this year will sign with the Buckeye's in February. So how does their "pitch" improve now that Rutgers has joined the B1G? Do they sell the parents on the idea that they will get to see their kids play right in their backyards every other year (at best)? If that were imprtant to a parent, then you would think that 7 games a year in their own backyard would be even better.

It certainly isn't the increased exposure for OSU or Michigan in NJ because I'm pretty sure they're not playing on ESPN3 today.

I'm not sure how anyone can even attempt to make a case that Rutgers will be a harder sell to recruits now that we will be joining the B1G. Logic just doesn't support the argument.

agree - arguing that Rutgers will have a harder time recruiting to play in the Big10/12/14 vs the BE is just silly

 

[Arizona Knight]

How did Terry Shea "set the program back a decade" when the prior two coaches each had a "winning" percentage of 44%?

From 1980-2004, Rutgers had 5 winning seasons, 18 losing seasons, and two even seasons. Let's not pretend that Rutgers had climbed up some sort of success ladder prior to Shea. And it's not like those decades were chock full of tough schedules either.

That's why I said it seemed like Terry Shea had nowhere to go but up. But consider that under the 5 years of Terry Shea and the first 2 years under Schiano (when he was rolling with Terry's roster) we went 4-45 in conference play. 4 wins and 45 losses... No other BCS team has approached that kind of disaster that I'm aware of.

 

[Townie72]

agree - arguing that Rutgers will have a harder time recruiting to play in the Big10/12/14 vs the BE is just silly

How's that working out for Illinois and Indiana? They're in the B1G. What have their recruiting classes been like?

Big Ten membership doesn't guarantee top recruits as the performance of most of the Big Ten demonstrates.

And whereas Michigan and Ohio State and Wisconsin are the dream schools of most of the residents of those states, Rutgers is still the school that NJ residents go to when they can't afford to go where they really want to.

 

[OrangeMojo]

How's that working out for Illinois and Indiana? They're in the B1G. What have their recruiting classes been like?

Big Ten membership doesn't guarantee top recruits as the performance of most of the Big Ten demonstrates.

And whereas Michigan and Ohio State and Wisconsin are the dream schools of most of the residents of those states, Rutgers is still the school that NJ residents go to when they can't afford to go where they really want to.

it's as opposed to being a member of the Big East - you can't tell me their recruiting will get worse because of this move

 

[Townie72]

it's as opposed to being a member of the Big East - you can't tell me their recruiting will get worse because of this move

I'm not sure what will happen. But I don't think its a given that the school is all that more attractive than it was.

Their resume in the Big East is pretty thin. If the Big Ten is a better conference, than what is the future likely to hold?

That easy access they had to the BCS has just evaporated. (An easy access they were never able to cash in on). Now that path goes through Ann Arbor, MI and Columbus, OH.

They have been in the best basketball conference for 20 years. How has that helped them? Not at all, if their recent loss to St Peters is an example of success.

If --- as I project --- they end up being yet another B1G punching bag for UM, OSU and Wisc then who will want to go there?

Will they still be able to prop up their record with the MEAC schools?

 

[HtownOrange]

agree - arguing that Rutgers will have a harder time recruiting to play in the Big10/12/14 vs the BE is just silly

My argument isn't that Rutgers will have a harder time, just return to what it was traditionally. They have benefited from Syracuse being down, Pitt being in a funk, JoePa getting old, etc. Add in Schiano's salesmanship and questionable recruiting methods (badmouthing schools competing for the same recruits), and Rutgers is more likely to return to what they were than to forge ahead.

Michigan, OSU, Nebraska, are schools all kids have heard of and if they are willing to leave home they are willing to consider a long time big names rather than the hometown school. Kids already leave for PSU, Pitt, the Florida schools and some are coming back to Syracuse now that we are winning. I simply don't believe that all the Jersey kids are going to stay home. Historically, they haven't, even recent history proves my point. Rutgers isn't going to benefit much from Ohio, Michigan and the Plains States recruiting grounds, they never have. Further, they will probably lose some recruits from Florida as they will not be playing there regularly.

I now return you to the regularly scheduled debate regarding Rutger's class as they leave the Big East.