Orangeyes
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Save The Dome, Part 1: Raise the Roof
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Millhouse
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existing teams with retractable roofs don't open them nearly as much as anyone would've thought when they were all being built or installed
since so much of the value of the dome is for hosting giant basketball crowds in the winter, paying a premium for the option of opening the roof for a september football game here or there is pretty hard to justify
since so much of the value of the dome is for hosting giant basketball crowds in the winter, paying a premium for the option of opening the roof for a september football game here or there is pretty hard to justify
OrangeXtreme
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That's a lot of money to spend so the players can get a suntan once or twice a year.
The fans are still sitting under the big top. Only a portion of the field sees any sunlight.
The fans are still sitting under the big top. Only a portion of the field sees any sunlight.
OrangeDW
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The Dome is awesome. This isn't the NFL/NBA where everyone constantly needs their new, generic, boring stadium/arena.
I'm not buying this "the Dome is outdated" line. Most of the best college hoop/football arenas and stadiums that people actually care about are much older than the Dome.
I'm not buying this "the Dome is outdated" line. Most of the best college hoop/football arenas and stadiums that people actually care about are much older than the Dome.
Whitey23
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devils advocate...spring/summer events. Concerts, events, lax, outdoor hockey in the winter, etc..
Mr. Postive? Is that you?
The fabric air-supported roof is outdated. That's why the dome is the only one left and no one is building stadiums like this anymore despite the lower cost. The builder of the dome even says its outdated. It's outdated.
orangeinjersey
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paying for a new retractable roof that gets used twice a year AT MOST, is just a colossal waste of money. I dont even know why the subject gets brought up.
OrangeDW
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I prefer to think of it as vintage. Vintage is cool. Getting blown out of the Dome doors? Where else can you do that?
Really though...just get a new regular roof when this one is no longer functional. That's all we need is functional. It's just a roof! Don't leak or collapse, and everything's good.
Retractable roof in Syracuse, when nobody uses the Dome in the summer... is one of the worst ideas I've ever heard.
thebigeast44
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The Dome is perfectly fine. No need to spend $500 million dollars just to get a nicer place.
cusefan88
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A fixed roof is better. Cheaper than retractable. Obviously pricier than air supported but fixed roof has potential for big center hung scoreboard and easier concert set-up (can't utilize too much from roof currently).
I bet a fixed roof is in the $100 million range. Air-supported more expensive than you would think.
I bet a fixed roof is in the $100 million range. Air-supported more expensive than you would think.
CuseLegacy
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I think that the problem with a fixed roof might be the load factor on the existing structure.
Jamesvillecuse
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maybe the $500 million could be better used to take care of our veterans!
Actually, I would be fine with a new "regular" roof but that will cost $250-$300 million due to the support needed. No one uses the dome in the summer because there is no A/C and it's hot as hell in there.
Fixed roof is more like $250M ...make it retractable and you add another $80M. Lots of case studies on this by e.g. Minnesota, British Colombia.
No.
CuseOnly
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The retractable roof portion of the BC renovation was over Half of the entire renovation. I think with the new materials and technology with fabric and polymers, a fixed roof is possible without the weight.
I don't know what you mean by " a fixed roof is possible without the weight."
BC is a textbook case of a fixed roof converted from one that was air supported. Yes, it's retractable but the retractable nature was not over half the entire renovation. They had to beef up support for the fixed roof...retractable or not. That is where they spent most of their money. The final renovation costs for BC were $563M and you are right, over half was for the roof which is in line with the numbers I have been stating here. Look at the before and after for BC Place and you will see a dome like ours (before) and to covert, it took massive amounts of trusses and cabling to add the fixed, cable supported roof. That's where the costs were. I will say this, BC Place had no template and so the costs were higher than expected. With the Carrier dome, I would hope the costs would be lower from lessons learned there.
CuseOnly
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Not disagreeing with you at all. The weight I am talking about is not only the weight of the structure, which has been reported that the Dome structure can't handle. I am also talking about the amount of snow that we get which is pretty unique to Syracuse. The roof on the BC arena would collapse under the weight of the first 6 inch snowfall and really wouldn't be feasible.
Syracuse gets more snow than Minnesota and the area where the BC arena is probably combined. A highly angled fixed pitched roof would be the best option IMO, translucent if possible similar to the MN new arena.
sutomcat
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I have included a few images of the design for the new stadium for the Vikings below.
Note the high angle of the roof you mentioned above. That angle is there specifically to try and ensure snow slides off the roof. Looks like they focused on opening the southern side of the stadium to the sun. At the Dome, that would unfortunately provide views of the ESF campus, Oakwood Cemetery and maybe Sentinel Heights (not downtown).
Minneapolis gets an average of 45 inches of snow per year. Syracuse gets 115. Any fixed roof design for a stadium in Syracuse would have to take into account the heavy snowfall that the roof will be subjected to on a regular basis here, so we would never be subject to a Hartford Civic Center type disaster.
The translucent part of the roof is made possible by a substance known as ETFE. More on that below. I would think if the Dome ever gets a fixed roof, it would probably feature this stuff. Note the weight (1/100th the weight of glass).
What is ETFE?
ETFE is a co-polymer resin that is extruded into a thin film. The plastic-like material is transparent but can be treated to be translucent, is extremely light-weight, very durable and resistant to corrosion. In an architectural application ETFE is typically used in a multi-layer pneumatic system.
What is the life/longevity of ETFE?
ETFE does not degrade with exposure to UV light, atmospheric pollution or extreme temperatures. The material has withstood extensive testing within extreme environments, and is expected to have a 30-50 year life expectancy while requiring minimal maintenance.
How does ETFE handle weight/pressure?
Despite its weight (1/100 the weight of glass) ETFE handles snow/wind loads very well. In sheet form, it can stretch three times its length without losing elasticity.
How do you clean ETFE?
ETFE systems are extremely low maintenance. The surface of the foil is non-stick and non-porous, which allows the natural action of rain to clean the surface. Deposits of dirt, dust and debris remain unattached and are washed away in the rain, meaning ETFE effectively self-cleans with virtually no need to clean externally.
Will snow/ice build up on the roof of the stadium?
Several characteristics of this roof are designed for Minnesota’s climate. First, the slope of the stadium - rising from approximately 205 feet from grade in the east to 272 feet high in the west - will give the building a unique ability to shed snow. Secondly, the translucent ETFE material will allow more sunlight and radiant heat through the roof, which combined with the natural rise of heat from inside the stadium will help melt the snow and ice. Diverters will redirect it into gutters and collection basins located on the edges of the roof, keeping snow and ice from falling to the ground below.
Everything You Wanted to Know About the New Viking Stadium
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Sounds like an even larger undertaking than that of BC place. More pitch = larger roof = more supports, etc. Your argument, if accurate, is convincing me that a new fixed fabric roof would be a large amount of money... maybe more than necessary If that is the case, just build from scratch and use a proven design that would work rather than trying to retro-fit onto an existing structure with no precedent. I think that might be a better way to spend Millhouse's tax dollars but I would need to do a thorough study of the financials before making my final decision on that.
CuseLegacy
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They also used ETFE in the construction of a 40,000-seat natural turf stadium in Sochi, Russia.
