Scrimmage Recap | Page 6 | Syracusefan.com

Scrimmage Recap

I don't follow your logic. If the centers are too thin/weak/short to play effectively in the zone, how will playing man be any better?
It's more about if we have to stick Moyer (or someone else) in the middle. I don't see how that can be an option in the zone for extended periods. Occasionally or in foul trouble, ok, but it can't be a major part of our defense.

I don't think Chukwu can provide big or impactful minutes. I don't think Sidibe will be ready or even capable of playing 30-35 minutes just yet. So we either stick Moyer in the middle of the zone, or (*record screeches to a halt*) mix in a little man. If Chukwu can provide decent minutes (15 or so a game), great, but I just don't think it'll happen.

Hope I'm wrong and we get good interior play on defense.
 
There are lots of concerns. Coaches need to put their players (and themselves) in the best position to win. I also worry about the offense and wonder how it would look in terms of execution if they try to run Villanova style ball. I do think that Nova-style probably is the best approach on offense with this current team but I wonder about the X’s and O’s especially without many proven shooters.

I think villanova style is much easier said than done. Even Wright has struggled at times to make that work consistently even thought they are obviously in a pretty good little groove right now. The first question would be what can Frank/HW/Geno provide offensively off the dribble, which is a big part of that type of offense. Those guys are unproven as offensive weapons at this level, so even offensively there are questions as to how that might work (as you point out).
 
Another year, another struggle at C. Fab (RIP), Rak, and AO ... I'm getting all nostalgic.
Sidibe (and Chukwu with back-up minutes) might surprise this year from reports. It's just a scrimmage, but when's the last time a freshman center lead all scorers at MM?
 
I think villanova style is much easier said than done. Even Wright has struggled at times to make that work consistently even thought they are obviously in a pretty good little groove right now. The first question would be what can Frank/HW/Geno provide offensively off the dribble, which is a big part of that type of offense. Those guys are unproven as offensive weapons at this level, so even offensively there are questions as to how that might work (as you point out).

Oh for sure. This is all part of the reason why I am more concerned about the offense than the defense. If we go this route then the guards all have to be attackers and playmakers for themselves or others. They have to be strong with the ball too, obviously. Lots of unknowns. I bet we see lots of Frank/Geno/Battle together at the same time. Maybe with Oshae and Sidibe. You can’t be just swinging the ball around the perimeter.
 
C) The guys who end up being two of the three leading scorers were Xmas, who had been horrible offensively for three years (not bad defensively at times, but awful offensively) and G, who had struggled to do much offensively despite being a 3rd-year soph.

It's a myth that Xmas was horrible offensively before his senior year.

He led the team in shooting percentage every year. He also took way less shots than almost anybody on the team until he was a senior...for some reason he wasn't given the ball very often prior to his senior year, even though he was the best percentage shooter on the team.

Rakeem Christmas College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

I think Rak flashed better than expected offensive potential as a frosh but he never came close to realizing it until he was a senior when everything seemed to happen all at once. I mean, if we're going by FG percentage, Billy Celuk was at 57.7 in 2000/01 and Jeremy McNeil was at 65%. If we look at PPG, he was around 5-6 ppg both his soph and jr seasons which is less than what Roberson averaged and it wasn't like we were featuring Roberson nor was it that he was a particularly effective offensive player.

Now, there is no question that we didn't feed Rak -- and arguably little question that we would have been better served by at least making the effort to get him a few more touches if for no reason other than to allow him to work on that part of his game. But Rak had trouble putting himself in good spots offensively and often when he had good position he got pushed off of it. There was also the massive issue of foul trouble and playing well enough on both ends to keep himself on the floor (over 100 fouls in ~800 minutes in each of his soph and jr seasons).

Anyway, to say he could have scored more earlier in his career is probably fair, but to say it's mythology that he appeared largely out of nowhere as a go-to guy as a senior is absolutely accurate. Even we love a player's potential (like MCW going into his soph season after an impressive frosh season in limited minutes), to go from ~ 5.8 ppg and 5 rpg to 17.5 ppg and 9 rpg while still sporting a really good shooting percentage (55% in Rak's case) is absolutely insane in terms of the jump in productivity. I think of guys who had huge leaps from one season to the next and I can't really come up with a good comp. Damone Brown was great as a senior but had averaged 10 and 6 as a junior. Rick Jackson stepped up but had been at 10 and 7 as a junior. MCW might be the closest in terms of raw numbers but his lack of numbers as a frosh had more to do with lack of opportunity to get on the court.
 
Sidibe (and Chukwu with back-up minutes) might surprise this year from reports. It's just a scrimmage, but when's the last time a freshman center lead all scorers at MM?
I have no idea, and stats from a scrimmage don't mean much to me. When was the last time a freshman center played meaningful minutes at SU? BMK (And that was with a senior Rick Jackson and freshman Fab)? Chukwu doesn't strike me as good as either of those two.
 
I have no idea, and stats from a scrimmage don't mean much to me. When was the last time a freshman center played meaningful minutes at SU? BMK (And that was with a senior Rick Jackson and freshman Fab)? Chukwu doesn't strike me as good as either of those two.
I have to laugh when I see people penciling in a freshman center for 30+ minutes.

Who was the last freshman center we had that wasn't in foul trouble 5 minutes into the game?
I agree with your skepticism, Fly. I'm just passing the (positive) reports along. I have no idea how quickly Sidibe's going to get into foul trouble. But by most accounts he's going to protect the rim, be mobile in the zone and maybe provide a little scoring. That wouldn't be horrible.

Either way, I have this year penciled in as NIT, so just trying to keep a stiff upper lip here.
 
I thought having to play center held Lydon back from being the player he could be. I hope the same thing doesn't happen to Moyer.

Lydon's season was just sort of a bummer all the way around. I think if I were ranking the factors that contributed to his struggles I'd go this way:

1. Difficulty adjusting to the massive roster turnover. G, Cooney and Malachi took enough shots but were decent facilitators and the spacing and ball movement seemed to work well for Lydon. Last year he seemed perpetually unsure of where he fit in. He managed to get 265 shots in 1122 minutes (1 every 4.3 mins) as the fourth option as a frosh and then 319 in 1227 minutes (1 shot every 3.84 mins) as the no. 2 option. I would have thought he should have had closer to 400 opportunities to put the ball up but somehow it just didn't happen (Lydon can be blamed for some of this, obviously).

2. Odd weight gain. Lydon added weight, which everyone wanted, but he added Jameel Dumas weight instead of Dwight Freeney weight. That didn't help. Absolutely looked a half-step slow and didn't seem to be able to get off the floor the same way.

3. Playing center. Obviously not his ideal position but I rank it 3rd b/c he played really well there for the most part as a true frosh so I can't believe it was the biggest factor overall.
 
It's more about if we have to stick Moyer (or someone else) in the middle. I don't see how that can be an option in the zone for extended periods. Occasionally or in foul trouble, ok, but it can't be a major part of our defense.

I don't think Chukwu can provide big or impactful minutes. I don't think Sidibe will be ready or even capable of playing 30-35 minutes just yet. So we either stick Moyer in the middle of the zone, or (*record screeches to a halt*) mix in a little man. If Chukwu can provide decent minutes (15 or so a game), great, but I just don't think it'll happen.

Hope I'm wrong and we get good interior play on defense.
OK and I agree. But I still don't understand your call to play more man2man.
Seems to me the issues you are concerned of would be enhanced in man ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
I thought having to play center held Lydon back from being the player he could be. I hope the same thing doesn't happen to Moyer.
I have to disagree there. Looking back at his two years, I think center was clearly his best position. On offense, he created mismatch problems for the other teams (which he took better advantage of as a frosh, to be sure). But the big difference was on the defensive end. He was a solid rim protector in the middle of the zone, but as a forward he did not have the quickness or length to cover the corners, and he was not a good help defender.
This is why I think he'll struggle to find a spot in the NBA: his best position was center in a college zone. I don't think he has a position in the NBA.
 
I have to laugh when I see people penciling in a freshman center for 30+ minutes.

Who was the last freshman center we had that wasn't in foul trouble 5 minutes into the game?
A lot of bizarre stuff going on in the world this year. Why not this.
 
I have no idea, and stats from a scrimmage don't mean much to me. When was the last time a freshman center played meaningful minutes at SU? BMK (And that was with a senior Rick Jackson and freshman Fab)? Chukwu doesn't strike me as good as either of those two.
BTW, totally off-thread, does your nic refer to Fly Fishing?
 
The inability to throw the ball inside has hurt our big production for years. It was an issue last year getting the ball to Lydon in the post partly because Gillon just couldn’t see inside.

The last guard we had who excelled at throwing a post pass was Triche and he’s been gone for four years.
 
The inability to throw the ball inside has hurt our big production for years. It was an issue last year getting the ball to Lydon in the post partly because Gillon just couldn’t see inside.

The last guard we had who excelled at throwing a post pass was Triche and he’s been gone for four years.
Totally agree. The center-guard connection has become an endangered species at 'Cuse, since the days of Triche/AO/Ricky. It would be great to have some good old low-block scoring again ... a center who could play with his back to the basket and a guard who could throw a pass down low (bottom corner of the backboard, as Fran F. would say). Takes so much pressure off the roller-coaster ride of jump-shooting.
 
Lydon's season was just sort of a bummer all the way around. I think if I were ranking the factors that contributed to his struggles I'd go this way:

1. Difficulty adjusting to the massive roster turnover. G, Cooney and Malachi took enough shots but were decent facilitators and the spacing and ball movement seemed to work well for Lydon. Last year he seemed perpetually unsure of where he fit in. He managed to get 265 shots in 1122 minutes (1 every 4.3 mins) as the fourth option as a frosh and then 319 in 1227 minutes (1 shot every 3.84 mins) as the no. 2 option. I would have thought he should have had closer to 400 opportunities to put the ball up but somehow it just didn't happen (Lydon can be blamed for some of this, obviously).

2. Odd weight gain. Lydon added weight, which everyone wanted, but he added Jameel Dumas weight instead of Dwight Freeney weight. That didn't help. Absolutely looked a half-step slow and didn't seem to be able to get off the floor the same way.

3. Playing center. Obviously not his ideal position but I rank it 3rd b/c he played really well there for the most part as a true frosh so I can't believe it was the biggest factor overall.


He was originally considered a small forward due to his shooting and shot from outside much more as a frosh. I think his ideal position was at power forward. At center he could function but he couldn't use all his skills. I was hoping as a junior we'd see him at '4' and I think he would have blossomed into an All-American there.
 
I think Rak flashed better than expected offensive potential as a frosh but he never came close to realizing it until he was a senior when everything seemed to happen all at once. I mean, if we're going by FG percentage, Billy Celuk was at 57.7 in 2000/01 and Jeremy McNeil was at 65%. If we look at PPG, he was around 5-6 ppg both his soph and jr seasons which is less than what Roberson averaged and it wasn't like we were featuring Roberson nor was it that he was a particularly effective offensive player.

Now, there is no question that we didn't feed Rak -- and arguably little question that we would have been better served by at least making the effort to get him a few more touches if for no reason other than to allow him to work on that part of his game. But Rak had trouble putting himself in good spots offensively and often when he had good position he got pushed off of it. There was also the massive issue of foul trouble and playing well enough on both ends to keep himself on the floor (over 100 fouls in ~800 minutes in each of his soph and jr seasons).

Anyway, to say he could have scored more earlier in his career is probably fair, but to say it's mythology that he appeared largely out of nowhere as a go-to guy as a senior is absolutely accurate. Even we love a player's potential (like MCW going into his soph season after an impressive frosh season in limited minutes), to go from ~ 5.8 ppg and 5 rpg to 17.5 ppg and 9 rpg while still sporting a really good shooting percentage (55% in Rak's case) is absolutely insane in terms of the jump in productivity. I think of guys who had huge leaps from one season to the next and I can't really come up with a good comp. Damone Brown was great as a senior but had averaged 10 and 6 as a junior. Rick Jackson stepped up but had been at 10 and 7 as a junior. MCW might be the closest in terms of raw numbers but his lack of numbers as a frosh had more to do with lack of opportunity to get on the court.
David Johnson from soph to junior year might be the closest comp.
Went from 6.5 ppg to 19.4 ppg and from 2.4 rpg to 6.3 rpg. His minutes doubled and his numbers tripled.
 
He was originally considered a small forward due to his shooting and shot from outside much more as a frosh. I think his ideal position was at power forward. At center he could function but he couldn't use all his skills. I was hoping as a junior we'd see him at '4' and I think he would have blossomed into an All-American there.

Not sure about that -- Francis's scouting reports were of him being a phenomenal rebounder / shot blocker who was excelling for the U18 Team USA squad as a reserve big. He was skinny -- 200 pounds or so coming in -- so maybe that led people to think he was a small forward? Because everything I recall about him prior to arriving on the Hill was about him being a stretch 4 who could shoot but very limited in terms of putting the ball on the floor.
 
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David Johnson from soph to junior year might be the closest comp.
Went from 6.5 ppg to 19.4 ppg and from 2.4 rpg to 6.3 rpg. His minutes doubled and his numbers tripled.

I feel like I betrayed Johnson by forgetting about him.Inexcusable.
 
Totally agree. The center-guard connection has become an endangered species at 'Cuse, since the days of Triche/AO/Ricky. It would be great to have some good old low-block scoring again ... a center who could play with his back to the basket and a guard who could throw a pass down low (bottom corner of the backboard, as Fran . would say). Takes so much pressure off the roller-coaster ride of jump-shooting.

Not to mention the benefits of inside-out play for shooters. A lot of criticisms of JB float around this board -- some valid, many ridiculous -- but this is one you don't hear much about and it, to me, might be the greatest along with end of half/end of game sets.
 

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