Scrimmage Recap | Page 4 | Syracusefan.com

Scrimmage Recap

Thorpe didn't play. With him, battle, Oshae and Howard, that is 5 players. Bourama is only going to get better. But the big thing is that we probably won't be all that good this year. Get experience and get ready for next year.
I don’t think we can draw any conclusions from this scrimmage—or certainly throw in the towel on the season before the season even starts. As you said, Thorpe didn’t even play. Seth Greenberg thinks we’ll be a lot better than most people are predicting. I don’t really know what to expect. I’m hoping it’s like 1997-98 and a young unproven team surprises.
 
Last edited:
I mostly agree with you. I don't think next years team will be very good.

But there is something to the idea that jb has often over performed with teams that before the season don't look particularly good.

I think of the 97-98 team, which followed a season where Syracuse missed the NCAAs and then lost their best player (Otis hill). The most proven returning player was Todd burgan, who was not a particularly great basketball player. With hindsight we know etan, Jason hart and (to a lesser degree) Blackwell were great college players, but Thomas had been terrible as a freshman, hart barely average, and Blackwell was a transfer who had sat out they year before.

Just a few years after that, hart, Blackwell and Thomas all graduate, the best retuning player is Damone Browne and Syracuse still goes 25-9.

Another one is the 2006 team, which basically only returned gmac as a proven NCAA player. (If this wouldn't sidetrack everything I would argue battle is a better player than gmac). Warrick forth and pace had graduated, edelins long journey came to an end, and the rising junior class had been a huge disapppijtnmet so far. And the team still got a (admittedly undeserved) 5 seed.
All great examples. Lawrence Moten’s freshman year too. Lots of unknowns going into that season except Dave Johnson. Moten’s immediate impact was a big surprise.
 
I don’t think we can draw any conclusions from this scrimmage—or certainly throw in the towel on the season before the season even starts. As you said, Thorpe didn’t even play. Seth Greenberg thinks we’ll be a lot better than most people are predicting. I don’t really know what to expect. I’m hoping it’s like 1997-98 and a young unproven team surprises.

Seth also said we were going to be a top 5 team last year.
 
Yeah I’m not worried, but Chukwu looked like a dumpster fire. Everything else was pretty much what we heard.

Not having Taurean Thompson killed this season. Sorry to say the obvious, but that's the case.

With Thompson, you had Sidibe and Thompson at the Five; Brissett and Moyer at forward, with Thompson seeing some time there, too. And then you have four guards. That would have been 8 guys, or 7 1/2, if Washington can't contribute that much.

Not having Thompson makes a thin rotation unsustainable. The personnel just doesn't work. This is probably going to be JB's worst-ever record.
 
That it does
Except that Nova played a hounding man to man with that kind of lineup. Playing a small lineup makes a zone less effective. Just look at John Gillon, or when we put guards on the back line to rebound against big lineups (Josh Pace comes to mind).
 
No one is guaranteeing a successful season but if you need to ask how many times JB has pulled out good seasons from teams that weren’t expected to do much, then I submit you’re being overly pessimistic about this season. To each his own, but at this stage I’d rather see the positives, JB’s track record being one, rather than the negatives which of course there are many.
We have some good pieces and I frankly don’t expect anything less than an NIT berth, which IMO would be a positive.
To paraphrase one of my idols Zig Ziglar:
“Negative thinking sees difficulty in every opportunity. Positive thinking sees opportunity in every difficulty”. JMHO


For some perspective, the center tandem is going to be a lot like Billy Celuck and Jeremy McNeil in 2002 - an athletic guy who can hopefully avoid foul trouble, and a guy who is mostly ... tall.

That team also had a couple volume shooters from three, one of whom did fairly well but was streaky, and the other of whom hit 30%.

While the young guys had (and have) talent, that 2002 team was an NIT team, and I don't think Tyus Battle is as good as Preston Shumpert at this point in his career, although Geno will probably shoot better than DeShaun Williams from outside. The ACC is now probably a better league than the Big East at that time. The league is so damn deep, even with all the roster turnover with the early exits.

I'll be surprised if we can play .500 in the ACC. We do have a pretty forgiving schedule as compared to recent seasons, but we could still lose 10 of those games. We also have four games in pre-conference that will be challenging. That would be 17-15, worst case, with a first round exit in the ACC tournament again. That's how it looks to me. But I only see where we maybe are a couple games better on the upside. I don't see a team who is going to win 23 or 24 games with this lineup.
 
For some perspective, the center tandem is going to be a lot like Billy Celuck and Jeremy McNeil in 2002 - an athletic guy who can hopefully avoid foul trouble, and a guy who is mostly ... tall.

That team also had a couple volume shooters from three, one of whom did fairly well but was streaky, and the other of whom hit 30%.

While the young guys had (and have) talent, that 2002 team was an NIT team, and I don't think Tyus Battle is as good as Preston Shumpert at this point in his career, although Geno will probably shoot better than DeShaun Williams from outside. The ACC is now probably a better league than the Big East at that time. The league is so damn deep, even with all the roster turnover with the early exits.

I'll be surprised if we can play .500 in the ACC. We do have a pretty forgiving schedule as compared to recent seasons, but we could still lose 10 of those games. We also have four games in pre-conference that will be challenging. That would be 17-15, worst case, with a first round exit in the ACC tournament again. That's how it looks to me. But I only see where we maybe are a couple games better on the upside. I don't see a team who is going to win 23 or 24 games with this lineup.
The only way we win 23 or 24 is if they let us play a 45 game schedule. Having said that, the key to this season is that the team improve and get ready for next year.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Tyhe only way we win 23 or 24 is if they let us play a 45 game schedule. Having said that, the key to this season is that the team improve and get ready for next year.
Oh no. We have everyone right where we want em. Over/Under 25!
 
i will continue my Iggy losing streak this year.
 
when Chewy has to play center will he be a liability? We are too thin at center, literally and figuratively. Freshmen big men tend to foul and center is where we have no depth. Muscular teams will kill us on the boards. I don't anticipate any upsets against the heavy's but we have a fighting chance against other teams. With a good zone we should maintain our record of winning seasons. If we make the dance, it will be as a bubble team with a bad seed. For this team, a deep run and a high seed in the nit might be the best option. We are not without talent but not all the pieces are here nor are they ready. Help is coming next year. Of utmost importance, we will need Sibide to man-up for next year and we will need a decent backup center.
 
I think Sibide will be a 10 put 10 reb guy his freshmen year. Kid played the best big men in the country last year and ended up on the positive side of most of them. Needs weight room I agree but has a lot of potential. I love all of our young guys. HW and Brissett are both cool players. I'm happy. Under the radar guys and they will be good no doubt
 
I think Sibide will be a 10 put 10 reb guy his freshmen year. Kid played the best big men in the country last year and ended up on the positive side of most of them. Needs weight room I agree but has a lot of potential. I love all of our young guys. HW and Brissett are both cool players. I'm happy. Under the radar guys and they will be good no doubt


Historically, that would be remarkable if he put up those numbers.

I'd be happy with 6 and 6; thrilled with 8 and 8.

The biggest thing will be him learning how to stay on the floor and not foul out. If we can get 30 minutes from him, it will go a long way toward securing a winning season.
 
when Chewy has to play center will he be a liability? We are too thin at center, literally and figuratively. Freshmen big men tend to foul and center is where we have no depth. Muscular teams will kill us on the boards. I don't anticipate any upsets against the heavy's but we have a fighting chance against other teams. With a good zone we should maintain our record of winning seasons. If we make the dance, it will be as a bubble team with a bad seed. For this team, a deep run and a high seed in the nit might be the best option. We are not without talent but not all the pieces are here nor are they ready. Help is coming next year. Of utmost importance, we will need Sibide to man-up for next year and we will need a decent backup center.

If you saw what I saw Friday there is literally zero reason to play Chukwu. Sidibe looked like the third year player and Chukwu looked like he was touching the basketball for the first time in his life.
 
I know it won't happen, but of any SU team, this one needs to mix in some man to man. Unless Sidibe can play 30+ minutes a game in the middle, how exactly are we stopping anyone on D and rebounding out of the zone? I just don't see how Chukwu can play meaningful minutes and even be moderately successful. He's just so weak, slow and still raw. He'll get bullied, even if he's in good position. Maybe Moyer can mix in, but it's gonna be tough for a 6'7"ish kid to play a ton there and be successful.

The offense probably isn't going to be great, but we can't be successful if the defense is a complete sieve in the middle.
 
I know it won't happen, but of any SU team, this one needs to mix in some man to man.
It doesn’t matter. Even if JB wanted to, he doesn’t know how to teach it properly. It’s like a Java EE designer being asked to rewrite his project in Fortran.
 
Right. He's been game-planning to stop the M2M for 40+ years. Couldn't possibly know how to teach it.
Don’t believe me, fine, go ask mason Atom.
 
I've never understood this. This team has literally one guy who played starter minutes over the course of a season on it and that's Battle to go along with all freshman and a Howard who can't seem to get his game or head on straight. What team like this has been in a "wheelhouse"? 2013 had senior leadership, 2015 had 9 years worth of 2-3 zone at the top of it and all of our other successful teams were just great teams top to bottom with multiple returning starters. What team has JB ever coached like this to a successful season?

I'll say that I'm skeptical that this team has what it takes to improve much if at all on what we saw last season or to be a factor as a top 6 or 7 team in the ACC. But I do see the other side of the coin as well -- that there are a few things that could happen that could allow for this team to surprise.

For example, I do tend to agree that JB has a way of taking teams without many or any expectations and making them pretty competitive. Even 2014/15, as an example, sure the team only wins 18 games but that was a team with absolutely no business being competitive if you consider that;
A)Joseph comes in and can't replicate what Ennis (or come even close)
B) We were hopeful that McCullough would potentially be the go-to guy and he not only missed half the season but played pretty poorly in 8 of the 16 games he played.
C) The guys who end up being two of the three leading scorers were Xmas, who had been horrible offensively for three years (not bad defensively at times, but awful offensively) and G, who had struggled to do much offensively despite being a 3rd-year soph.
D) They ended up leaning heavily on Roberson after the McCullough injury

The fact that that team went .500 in the ACC is a pretty remarkable season, IMO.

In '95/'96, having wallace as a stud is a huge benefit and Hill is a good player but that's about all we know before Burgan emerges, Sims proves he's not only a solid PG but a really good one, and Janulis/Cipolla prove to be adequate at the 2.

In 15/16 you have Cooney who is a decent veteran but not someone you can really lean on and G who had been solid as a junior but was now the PG and at least I had no idea he had the kind of season in him that he put up as a senior. Other than that it's two good recruits but both are unproven and two unkowns for the most part in Roberson and Coleman (Roberson had a solid soph season but the jury is still out).

So I don't know how you rank any of those seasons really relate specifically to our roster headed into this year, but there are some parallels. I also don't expect a final four run, but somewhat interesting.

As an aside, I also think JB's teams tend to really struggle when they don't fit together well, regardless of talent. Last year was a year when A) they played horrible defense (something you almost never see from JB teams) and B) they had several guys playing out of position (White was a guy they wanted at the 2 but couldn't hang there, Gillon did fine at the point but wasn't a particularly good facilitator, Lydon never quite figured out what he was supposed to do on offense and they couldn't get anything from either center due in large part to injuries.

So if Howard improves, Thorpe contributes, Battle is settled in at the 2, Oshae/Marek can hold down the 3, Moyer at least hustles and plays D at the 4 and they can get 15-20 minutes from Sidibe/Chukwu at the 5 -- you could at least make the argument they fit together better and should be noticeably improved defensively. Scoring will be an issue almost without question, but they might be able to eke out a bubble season if they are that much better defensively.
 
Historically, that would be remarkable if he put up those numbers.

I'd be happy with 6 and 6; thrilled with 8 and 8.

The biggest thing will be him learning how to stay on the floor and not foul out. If we can get 30 minutes from him, it will go a long way toward securing a winning season.

Yeah, I'd say 30 is way high (I know you're not predicting it). I would say if he can play 20 solid minutes vs. good competition it's a really solid debut. Obviously that puts us in a tough spot if we're getting nothing from Chukwu, but at least you're only going small (Battle at the 3/Moyer to the 5) for maybe 12-14 minutes and then trying to get 6-8 minutes or something along those lines from a lineup with Marek and Brissett on the floor with Moyer. Any way you slice it it's less than ideal and obviously the closer Sidibe is to 30 mins the better, but that's a big ask of a frosh big.
 
The season will come down to the centers on defense. If Sidibe or Chukwu can go 25+ minutes with strong defensive play, we'll be decent. If neither is ready and we have to scramble to 'hide' them or, heaven forbid, play a forward at center again, we're in for a long season.

Defense will decide this team's fate, not the offense. The zone has been terrible the last few seasons. That has to end.
 
C) The guys who end up being two of the three leading scorers were Xmas, who had been horrible offensively for three years (not bad defensively at times, but awful offensively) and G, who had struggled to do much offensively despite being a 3rd-year soph.

It's a myth that Xmas was horrible offensively before his senior year.

He led the team in shooting percentage every year. He also took way less shots than almost anybody on the team until he was a senior...for some reason he wasn't given the ball very often prior to his senior year, even though he was the best percentage shooter on the team.

Rakeem Christmas College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com
 

Forum statistics

Threads
167,779
Messages
4,726,582
Members
5,920
Latest member
CoachDiddi

Online statistics

Members online
295
Guests online
2,385
Total visitors
2,680


Top Bottom