Serious recruiting question

[kcsu]

I think it's safe to say the staff is trying to right the ship, but the ship has taken a beating over the past several years. Until JB retires we're going to be treading water as a mid-pack ACC team. I just hope that the program doesn't fall into complete disarray and JB ends his career with back-to-back losing seasons. For Syracuse basketball to be officially "back", we'll need to make the right hire and hopefully JB won't obfuscate the transition this time. If Hop isn't planning to come back or even consider it, then the whole staff needs to be gutted. The assistants that we have now are hard-workers but SU needs great recruiters and player development to overcome the fact that we don't try to compete with the blue bloods for talent.

I have posted this before but i hope that Red gets the job and brings in a top recruiter.

 

[RF2044]

I have posted this before but i hope that Red gets the job and brings in a top recruiter.

I hope that we aim a lot higher than Red, and I'm confident that our AD will.

 

[MSOrange]

Not defending the dude but the word slime is commonly used as slang for family now.

Looks like I need to check out the ol urban dictionary more often. Thanks for the info.

 

[MSOrange]

I hope that we aim a lot higher than Red, and I'm confident that our AD will.

Agree. Having an alum is neat for sentimental reasons but we need to get the best coach we can get regardless to stay a winning program. Nothing is a sure bet, but I'd hate to limit ourselves for that reason. Hundreds of programs don't have alums as coach - we'll survive.

 

[kcsu]

I hope that we aim a lot higher than Red, and I'm confident that our AD will.

Im not so sure about that. This one is complicated. By all accounts JB and The Wild one have a very good and long standing relationship. JB is not going to want his guys displaced when he retires. Short of providing them with a great severance package i just dont see JW going outside of the program. Maybe Hop but that seems to be a big stretch.
As to sticking with Red it ensures continuity, and worse case after 2 seasons if it doesn't pan out JW then has a clean slate to work with. My money is on Red.

 

[RF2044]

Im not so sure about that. This one is complicated. By all accounts JB and The Wild one have a very good and long standing relationship. JB is not going to want his guys displaced when he retires. Short of providing them with a great severance package i just dont see JW going outside of the program. Maybe Hop but that seems to be a big stretch.
As to sticking with Red it ensures continuity, and worse case after 2 seasons if it doesn't pan out JW then has a clean slate to work with. My money is on Red.

Lots of assumptions in there -- I don't think that will prove to be true.

Continuity of what? The status quo that most everybody is complaining about?

I think Wildhack recognizes this as a career-defining hire for him, and will spare no expense recruiting candidates of the highest caliber. If Red is amongst that group -- great, but we're not going to artificially handcuff ourselves with succession plans, pre-ordained lists of limited candidates, etc.

Alum status is a nice to have, far from a need to have. We need to aim higher -- and JW has the resources at his disposal to do just that.

 

[SUFan44]

Lots of assumptions in there -- I don't think that will prove to be true.

Continuity of what? The status quo that most everybody is complaining about?

I think Wildhack recognizes this as a career-defining hire for him, and will spare no expense recruiting candidates of the highest caliber. If Red is amongst that group -- great, but we're not going to artificially handcuff ourselves with succession plans, pre-ordained lists of limited candidates, etc.

Alum status is a nice to have, far from a need to have. We need to aim higher -- and JW has the resources at his disposal to do just that.

To add to this, Hopkins will be offered the job. He checks all the boxes, would likely keep the staff the same (with the possibility of a couple exceptions) and understands the dynamic.

If Hopkins chooses to stay where he is, wherever that is, we need to look at an outside hire. No question about it. And I think our AD understands this, too.

Status quo is not an option. I think those that understand the full landscape of college basketball understand that Syracuse has underachieved the past 5 years. We can argue about the reasons why, but it simply is not acceptable.

 

[SkyTopBus44]

To add to this, Hopkins will be offered the job. He checks all the boxes, would likely keep the staff the same (with the possibility of a couple exceptions) and understands the dynamic.

If Hopkins chooses to stay where he is, wherever that is, we need to look at an outside hire. No question about it. And I think our AD understands this, too.

Status quo is not an option. I think those that understand the full landscape of college basketball understand that Syracuse has underachieved the past 5 years. We can argue about the reasons why, but it simply is not acceptable.

Heard it might be Buddy Boeheim in 2030

 

[moqui]

Not defending the dude but the word slime is commonly used as slang for family now.

that's a new one on me, and in another case i'd leave it at that
but he isn't posting in a vacuum. his posting history argues against that particular use of slang

 

[Sherman20]

I have posted this before but i hope that Red gets the job and brings in a top recruiter.

Yes, if he was able to bring in a Mike Miller, Jeff Capel or Troy Weaver high level recruiter, he could start off really well post-JB. But agree with others that we’ll likely look outside the program for the hire and that Hop will get the full court press from the administration. Besides, by the time JB retires in 3-4 years or more, Autry could be running his own program as a head coach elsewhere.

 

[Sherman20]

We were just voted the number 4 job in the conference by the coaches. We may be on the middle of the conference now, but if you think we are a mid tier ACC job you have zero clue what you’re talking about.

Finally someone with some smarts!

 

[Knicks411]

But most of those top 25 recruits that go to Kentucky and Duke would be first round picks regardless of where they went to college. K and Cal aren’t “developing” anyone in 1 year. These kids are NBA prospects in high school.

There's definitely a lot of truth to that (and i do make this point a lot, so forgive me) but there are times when guys at Kentucky do improve their stock even in the one year in school.

A couple of the examples I generally point to

Eric Bledsoe: He was 52 in the final RSCI rankings (to be fair, he was unranked in a few spots, I think there were some questions about his eligibility, he was more commonly around 30 if you want to use that. A year later, he was the 18th pick in the draft.

Devin Booker: #23 in the final RSCI rankings; a year later, he was the 13th pick in the draft. Even in that same year, Karl Towns did not enter the year as the consensus #1 player.

SGA: Was #30 in the final RSCI rankings, was the 11th pick a year later.

Don't know how you want to treat a guy like WCS, who was a top 40 recruit, spent 3 years at UK, and went 6th overall.


Anyway, obviously there are A) lots of highly ranked players who were picked high in the draft, and B) highly ranked players who hurt their draft stock, but there are a pretty decent # of guys at UK who significantly increased their draft stock in a year at UK.

 

[Brooky03]

There's definitely a lot of truth to that (and i do make this point a lot, so forgive me) but there are times when guys at Kentucky do improve their stock even in the one year in school.

A couple of the examples I generally point to

Eric Bledsoe: He was 52 in the final RSCI rankings (to be fair, he was unranked in a few spots, I think there were some questions about his eligibility, he was more commonly around 30 if you want to use that. A year later, he was the 18th pick in the draft.

Devin Booker: #23 in the final RSCI rankings; a year later, he was the 13th pick in the draft. Even in that same year, Karl Towns did not enter the year as the consensus #1 player.

SGA: Was #30 in the final RSCI rankings, was the 11th pick a year later.

Don't know how you want to treat a guy like WCS, who was a top 40 recruit, spent 3 years at UK, and went 6th overall.


Anyway, obviously there are A) lots of highly ranked players who were picked high in the draft, and B) highly ranked players who hurt their draft stock, but there are a pretty decent # of guys at UK who significantly increased their draft stock in a year at UK.

High school rankings aren't super accurate. I'd say anybody in the top 50 is in the tier of possible OAD without college coaches being able to take much of the credit. Maybe 50 is pushing it, but it's in that ballpark.

Developing as a player and improving your draft stock can be separate things. I think Calipari is a salesman and a darn good one. He's not improving these players' skill sets more than the average coach in just a year. What he's doing is giving these guys a platform to get noticed and play with other top tier talent, which never hurts. A good player who starts for a good team will have better stats than a good player who starts for a bad team.

 

[TinyManInside]

Why is it that SU no longer has any chance at big time Players? I know Duke, Kentucky, and Kansas take a lot of them but they don’t take all of them. I just wonder why we no longer can pull in 5 star recruits in basketball? Maybe you guys can answer this question.

Besides the many factors listed above, age has to have an impact here too. For an 18/19 kid, JB is literally old enough to be their great grandfather.

 

[OrangeDW]

Besides the many factors listed above, age has to have an impact here too. For an 18/19 kid, JB is literally old enough to be their great grandfather.

Boeheim’s got kids in college and seems to be in good shape physically. He doesn’t “seem” that old to me even though he is. Coach K is just as old, IMO looks terrible in recent years, and he brings in the best class every year.

 

[721Comstock]

Besides the many factors listed above, age has to have an impact here too. For an 18/19 kid, JB is literally old enough to be their great grandfather.

But Coach K, Ol Cryin' Roy, Leonard Hamilton and Jim Larrañaga are young spunky sprites who can still somehow recruit very well?

 

[OrangeDW]

But Coach K, Ol Cryin' Roy, Leonard Hamilton and Jim Larrañaga are young spunky sprites who can still somehow recruit very well?

Even Cal is 60. To 18 year olds, 60 is ancient too.

And I must say that if i didn’t know that the guy has been a major coach since the early 90s and just judged him on how old he “seems”, I’d probably guess that Cal was 50 or so.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Being an old guy is a state of mind.

 

[O_YY]

One other factor is that Kentucky and Duke are bringing in 4-5 recruits every year. Back in the day, before the 1-and-done era, there would be years where Duke would only have 2 scholarships open. Or Kentucky might have a 3-player class.

Now, just about every year, Duke and Kentucky hoard about 35-40% of the class's Top 25 players. That leaves only about fifteen Top 25 guys for the likes of Kansas, UNC, Florida, Ohio State, Michigan, UCLA, Gonzaga, etc. to fend for. We're in there too, but not as much as we used to be.

One reason I slightly respect UNC > Duke is that Roy Boy often times keeps his kids in the program for 3-4 years (Jackson, Berry, Meaks, Maye, Johnson). Meanwhile, Coach K chooses to win the offseason (aka recruiting) and ride that hype. And that is a reason why we've struggled mightily against the Tar Heels and competed quite well with Duke. UNC is wildly talented and mature, while the Devils are uber-talented, but young/raw/unrefined.

This is probably the biggest reason. Take 2009 for example, 247 lists 25 5* recruits. Duke only got one of them, and in total the 25 top players went to 19 different teams. If you look at 2019 (assuming everyone ends up where they committed, with LaMelo not going to college and RJ Hampton going to Kansas) the top 25 guys go to 14 teams. I don't want to jump on the "everybody is cheating except for SU" bandwagon because it seems unlikely. If everybody is actually paying players or whatever the alleged cheating is, Cuse probably is too, just not as well as everybody else. The sanctions couldn't have helped, and neither could the whole Bernie Fine thing. Some of it could just be chalked up to bad luck (see Bazley) or it could just be regressing to the mean. As shown by the table 721Comstock posted above, the stretch between 07-12 where we got 6 all americans in a 6 year span isn't normal for the program. This drought could just be a natural way of everything averaging out.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Jim didnt have anything to do with him. Zero. Nada. It was Griff.

Yeah, that's false. JB was at Peachjam watching Bazely. And Jalen Carey. Does that not matter?

JB didn't have conversations with Bazely in his office? Didn't meet with him on his unofficial visit? Griff got the ball rolling. That's what assistants do. JB closed.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

in the current acc landscape we are pretty clearly behind duke, va., and nc. fsu also seems to be rising fast. so, if our lot in acc life is competing for fifth place most seasons, how else would you describe our status ?

We just finished tied for 6th in the conference. The five teams ahead of us finished #1, #4, #9, #13 and #14 in the nation. If 5th place is Top 15, I'll take it.

 

[Ozone!]

Many factors that contribute to our current state of recruiting have been discussed and many mentioned factors have merit.
IMO, Until the end of JAB's tenure; his level of recruiting presence has the greatest impact. As long as he is our coach, his level of commitment to recruiting will determine our success.

 

[kcsu]

Being an old guy is a state of mind.

My Dad was climbing serious mountains with me at 80. Now at 85 he still can hang but not at the same level. JB looks to be in great shape. The question isn't physical. Its can you still connect, relate with and reach the kids. Having Buddy on the team has to be a huge help.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Finally someone with some smarts!

Whose 3rd?