Set plays on offense

[mark79]

Someone more adept at Xs and Os than me please chime in. Are we running any set plays? Early on in exhibition, I saw some pick and rolls, but it seems like we just run a weave and hope to spring an open one on one drive from JJ or Judah or possibly a kick out to Chris or Taylor. Are we attempting anything else? Maybe it’s just early in the year with several new players and we’ll create a few?

I do trust in Red and appreciate that it takes time for a team to gel. What would you all run?

 

[billsin01]

Someone more adept at Xs and Os than me please chime in. Are we running any set plays? Early on in exhibition, I saw some pick and rolls, but it seems like we just run a weave and hope to spring an open one on one drive from JJ or Judah or possibly a kick out to Chris or Taylor. Are we attempting anything else? Maybe it’s just early in the year with several new players and we’ll create a few?

not sure I am a good go-to on Xs and Os but from the time I've been watching basketball set plays are what the guy without the ball are doing. We seem to be inordinately focused on playing off the guy with the ball.

If you re-watch, you'll see how many screens and re-screens Colgate ran to free guys up as well as how much movement was involved in getting their bigs isolated on the low block (the offense's left block in particular). That movement also makes them harder to box out (though our bigger problem was effort and hustle and fight in that department for a good chunk of the game).

The best play I saw us run was our first possession of the game when Bell set a back screen (a good back screen, not a whiff) and then floated to the corner/wing for an open three. YOu've got two nice options there with a back cut and the pop of the screener. Nothing fancy but something off ball to give you a chance at a look. We just do very little of it generally.

So i'm not sure i would claim to what, exactly, an offense would look like, I do know four guys standing around watching a ball handler and then some ball screens from time to time is an incredibly easy offense to defend and rebound against.

 

[OrangeinDC]

not sure I am a good go-to on Xs and Os but from the time I've been watching basketball set plays are what the guy without the ball are doing. We seem to be inordinately focused on playing off the guy with the ball.

If you re-watch, you'll see how many screens and re-screens Colgate ran to free guys up as well as how much movement was involved in getting their bigs isolated on the low block (the offense's left block in particular). That movement also makes them harder to box out (though our bigger problem was effort and hustle and fight in that department for a good chunk of the game).

The best play I saw us run was our first possession of the game when Bell set a back screen (a good back screen, not a whiff) and then floated to the corner/wing for an open three. YOu've got two nice options there with a back cut and the pop of the screener. Nothing fancy but something off ball to give you a chance at a look. We just do very little of it generally.

So i'm not sure i would claim to what, exactly, an offense would look like, I do know four guys standing around watching a ball handler and then some ball screens from time to time is an incredibly easy offense to defend and rebound against.

Good post..

We essentially have 4 guys used to initiating the offense from the perimeter. You can see they are not yet comfortable with the off-ball movement needed if you're not "the one" initiating the offense, thus the standing around waiting to get the ball back on the perimeter in order to start something. It will take some adjustment and time.

 

[cusefan88]

Biggest improvement will be off-ball movement. Colgate got tons of easy looks because guys knew went to move.

Similar to soccer in the sense that moving into vacated space at the right time is so crucial.

 

[Newhouser]

Moving off the ball is key but people lose interest in it if they never see the ball.

 

[kingtidge]

Someone more adept at Xs and Os than me please chime in. Are we running any set plays? Early on in exhibition, I saw some pick and rolls, but it seems like we just run a weave and hope to spring an open one on one drive from JJ or Judah or possibly a kick out to Chris or Taylor. Are we attempting anything else? Maybe it’s just early in the year with several new players and we’ll create a few?

I do trust in Red and appreciate that it takes time for a team to gel. What would you all run?

By all accounts, Straughn was brought in for two primary reasons:

• Recruiting prowess in the mid-Atlantic
• Supposedly he's an offensive X/O specialist

What I HOPE we are seeing right now is a team that is in transition to a new offense (i.e. the ball movement we saw during the comeback portion of the game is part of it.)

I also HOPE what we saw in the first half and the beginning of the second half is that old habits die hard.

Our players seem to think they can ISO/hero-ball teams for wins at this level, but the body evidence from last year would certainly show that's often not the case (as did the first half+ of this game.)

Based on Red's vehemence on the sideline last night, it was clear he was not happy with how they were running the offense. Hopefully, that's because we're not supposed to be doing not-stop hero-ball iso's or launching random perimeter shots when no one is in the key to rebound.

HOPEFULLY this A LOT about breaking bad habits and building good ones.

Rome wasn't built in a day and the comeback clearly showed what this team is capable of when they play focused and determined.

I also hope whatever our offensive identity evolves into is done whilst correcting our lack of rebounding in both positioning/boxouts and effort (actually jumping for a damn board when under the basket!)

 

[cuseincincy]

I think it comes down to Judah and JJ figuring out how to play together. Good news is they are both very talented. They are very similar offensively with Judah being a better passer. Both need to improve as shooters. I think that is what will make Bell and Taylor be a frequent frontcourt combination for their shooting. Cuffe can shoot, but he's not a shooter. And then there's Benny. He has the most potential, most to gain/prove in Hawaii. I've been begging him to just be a 4 and rebound and the team will be much better because of it. He will continue to get opportunities because when it clicks for him the team's prospect change. He will continue to shoot 3's might as well embrace it. If he just makes 40% and leads the team in 3PFG%, again, no one should complain.
What would I run? That's easy, yes. I would run and press and use the athletes on the team and keep running. I do not see half court offense other than drive and kick being a strength of this team. I would run and truthfully I think we have the roster to do it.

 

[CardiacCuse]

Good post..

We essentially have 4 guys used to initiating the offense from the perimeter. You can see they are not yet comfortable with the off-ball movement needed if you're not "the one" initiating the offense, thus the standing around waiting to get the ball back on the perimeter in order to start something. It will take some adjustment and time.

they are basically running the same offense any pickup basketball team at your local park might try

 

[OrangeinDC]

Biggest improvement will be off-ball movement. Colgate got tons of easy looks because guys knew went to move.

Similar to soccer in the sense that moving into vacated space at the right time is so crucial.

Easiest guy to defend is the one that stands still.

 

[OrangeinDC]

Biggest improvement will be off-ball movement. Colgate got tons of easy looks because guys knew went to move.

Similar to soccer in the sense that moving into vacated space at the right time is so crucial.

People think it's an easy adjustment, but it's not for guys used to having ball in their hands and initiating O.

 

[OrangeinDC]

Moving off the ball is key but people lose interest in it if they never see the ball.

That or "stand here and wait for my turn"

 

[OrangeinDC]

they are basically running the same offense any pickup basketball team at your local park might try

This

 

[SUbear]

Easiest guy to defend is the one that stands still.

And most of last night that was every SU player without the ball.

 

[CardiacCuse]

And most of last night that was every SU player without the ball.

needs to change

 

[UpstateSM]

We ran some really nice and relatively simple actions that you see in the NBA and in the stuff that Oats runs at Bama in the exhibitions. But it seems like we've seen much less of that once the real games started.

Or maybe even since the second exhibition game when Judah came back. I'm not totally sure so I'll leave it at that for now if ya catch my drift..

 

[TheCusian]

Moving off the ball is key but people lose interest in it if they never see the ball.

This is also similar to soccer

 

[Cusefan0307]

We ran some really nice and relatively simple actions that you see in the NBA and in the stuff that Oats runs at Bama in the exhibitions. But it seems like we've seen much less of that once the real games started.

Or maybe even since the second exhibition game when Judah came back. I'm not totally sure so I'll leave it at that for now if ya catch my drift..

We actually ran some Spanish PnR the first couple of games. That’s how Carey got the alley oop dunk in game one.

Part of the problem is I don’t think Judah is looking to get other guys involved nearly enough. Taylor was open a bunch yesterday and we never got him the ball.

 

[721Comstock]

We actually ran some Spanish PnR the first couple of games. That’s how Carey got the alley oop dunk in game one.

Part of the problem is I don’t think Judah is looking to get other guys involved nearly enough. Taylor was open a bunch yesterday and we never got him the ball.

So, the guy who had - checks box score -
EIGHT assists,

… isn’t getting his teammates involved nearly enough?

Tough crowd.

Guess if he’s not getting a dub-dub every game w points and dimes, he’s a selfish slacker?

JJ had 4.
Benny had the only other 1.

 

[Cusefan0307]

So, the guy who had - checks box score -
EIGHT assists,

… isn’t getting his teammates involved nearly enough?

Tough crowd.

Guess if he’s not getting a dub-dub every game w points and dimes, he’s a selfish slacker?

JJ had 4.
Benny had the only other 1.

Sometimes stats don’t tell the entire story. The first half offense was a joke.

 

[721Comstock]

Sometimes stars don’t tell the entire story. The first half offense was a joke.

I’d say the SIX other guys with
- checks box score again -
ZERO total assists might be more of a problem.

There’s a story for ya.

 

[UpstateSM]

I'm holding Judah to a higher standard. If you start every game as a freshman and come back with first round and All-American buzz I think it's fair to do so.

He isn't getting drafted and we aren't sniffing the tourney with the way he is playing right now. Counting stats are there but that doesn't win games or matter to the league. He can lead the ACC in assists with no impact on his scoring if his tendencies on penetration change just a bit.

JJ, too, for that matter but Judah is THE GUY on this team so it's on his shoulders. The second half last night was much better but there is a ton of progression that still needs to be made and fast.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Someone more adept at Xs and Os than me please chime in. Are we running any set plays? Early on in exhibition, I saw some pick and rolls, but it seems like we just run a weave and hope to spring an open one on one drive from JJ or Judah or possibly a kick out to Chris or Taylor. Are we attempting anything else? Maybe it’s just early in the year with several new players and we’ll create a few?

I do trust in Red and appreciate that it takes time for a team to gel. What would you all run?

There's very little offense installed so far, it seems to me. They've probably been working more on defense to start the season. They have to install more off-ball movement, back screens along the baseline, etc.

I've said this recently, but I think it was Bobby Knight who made his teams pass the ball - and move somewhere else, looking for an open spot on the floor - at least 3 passes before anyone shoots.

We need a crash course in that, and then after 3 or 4 weeks they should hopefully play more naturally. This is the essence of soccer, pass, find the open space, and then be prepared to receive the ball. Know where your passing options are, and when you have a clear shot, take it.

 

[swish7]

they are basically running the same offense any pickup basketball team at your local park might try

This is an underrated post and might be the most accurate.

I assume Red has a plan and something he wants the players to run, and for whatever reason, they are simply not yet running it.

I assume there are some huge growing pains happening here, being 2nd in command to a 47 year coach, and the players / Red are struggling to adjust.

JBs offenses at least had a little weave motion before it descended into an isolation play.

It seems right now we are just seeing isolation plays, either a quick shot from 3 after 1 or 2 passes, or a drive. At a minimum, it would be nice to run an in and out pass before the 3s, and save the drives for transition plays.

I'm not smart enough to offer coaching suggestions; I could barely coach my kids youth teams, but in my naive mind, I'd want to run O & D systems like the Gonzagas and Colgates and Butlers of the world run, but with our athletes. I love watching those teams play (except when we are playing them). There is a system. Everyone has a role. Fundamentals serve a purpose. There is a strategy and seeking out and exposing a team's weakness.

Some great points in this thread regarding JJ and Judah figuring out how to play together.