Class of 2024 - SF Tyler Betsey (CT) TRANSFERRING TO SYRACUSE (5/2/25) | Page 9 | Syracusefan.com

Class of 2024 SF Tyler Betsey (CT) TRANSFERRING TO SYRACUSE (5/2/25)

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Having a GM means having someone to achieve the basics in roster management.

Retain the most talented and productive guys on the roster- check
Bring in a high level freshman class that is high ranked and should contribute day 1 - check
Fill in the weaknesses with strengths through the portal - check
Complete the roster with both talent and program fits - check.

What’s left is coaching to do their part. Alex has done his.
Is there a glitch in the system or are both -foo and -zoo gaslighting me?

I agree with what you’re saying, but I don’t see how any of it pertains to what you’re quoting. Is this what it feels like to experience a stroke?
 
Also setting a price point for a player before the portal season starts. It’s a really bad slippery slope if you even overpay for 1 guy beyond what you think they’re worth. You do that once and it’s gonna keep happening.

I want Cuse to win but I prefer what our programs are doing this year. I feel like we’re Sticking to our guns with what players are worth or not worth. Hoops lately but most notably Fran Brown telling Pena to take a walk and then bringing in a ton of other portal talent in other positions with that money.
Consider this a ‘friendly challenge‘—just on the concept—but what exactly is an “overpay?”

If Carmelo were the piece we needed to acquire for the 02-03 season, how much would have been too much to pay?
 
Is there a glitch in the system or are both -foo and -zoo gaslighting me?

I agree with what you’re saying, but I don’t see how any of it pertains to what you’re quoting. Is this what it feels like to experience a stroke?

Gaslighting? No not at all. Just taking things back up to the 10000 ft level for the time being and it’s a general response to many in terms of breaking down his game, fit and whether it’s a good add.
 
Gaslighting? No not at all. Just taking things back up to the 10000 ft level for the time being and it’s a general response to many in terms of breaking down his game, fit and whether it’s a good add.
My answer to the “is Betsey a good add?” question is kind of ambivalent. It’s nice to have another talented player in case we need him, but I don’t think he’s going to push many people down in the rotation. My previous belief that Womack wasn’t going to play much is reinforced. But Betsey probably doesn’t affect White or Souare being the 6th man.

Betsey doesn’t really solve what I consider the biggest problem on the team right now, which is that Freeman is going to have to play center regularly next season. That said, another long armed, tall player, this one a kid that can hit a three pointer, is a good thing. And unlike Davis, Taylor and Carlos, Betsey next season has enormous amounts of upside.

At almost every roster spot, you can realistically say that the player could get substantially better. Last season, we had more questions like “Can this guy play at this level?” and “Do we think he’ll ever be healthy?” than we had “How good can this guy get?” type roster questions.

Magnificent upgrades to the roster this offseason.
 
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Maybe it’s just me but I expect the 1 to play about 36-38 min. Only coming out a min or two per half due to being extremely winded which I don’t think will happen much with George.

I would hate to see that. That means Fennell wouldn't play at all.
None of these guys is good enough to play for 35 minutes.
If they were, Georgia Tech or Syracuse would have had winning records last year.
 
George played 36 minutes per game last year. I’d like him to have two 1.5 minutes rests per half, optimally around TV timeouts.

Georgia Tech was not a good team, even though they were better than us.
If you're going to build a team, play them.
People are going to get hurt. It happens every damn year.
 
My answer to the “is Betsey a good add?” question is kind of ambivalent. It’s nice to have another talented player in case we need him, but I don’t think he’s going to push many people down in the rotation. My previous belief that Womack want going to play much is reinforced. But Betsey probably doesn’t affect White or Souare being the 6th man.

Betsey doesn’t really solve what I consider the biggest problem on the team right now, which is that Freeman is going to have to play center regularly next season. That said, another long armed, tall player, this one a kid that can hit a the pointer, is a good thing. And unlike Davis, Taylor and Carlos, Betsey next season has enormous amounts of upside.

At almost every roster spot, you can realistically say that the player could get substantially better. Last season, we had more questions like “Can this guy play at this level?” and “Do we think he’ll ever be healthy?” than we had “How good can this guy get?” type roster questions.

Magnificent upgrade to the roster.

No disagreement on the general thoughts here other than I don’t think Freeman “has” to play the 5 next year based on the roster as built outside of in planned or emergency scenarios.
 
Consider this a ‘friendly challenge‘—just on the concept—but what exactly is an “overpay?”

If Carmelo were the piece we needed to acquire for the 02-03 season, how much would have been too much to pay?

This is the exact reason not to overpay. Every year you would be chasing that unicorn and it just doesn’t exist. Another Melo may never exist. Hence the slippery slope, coaches and GMs start saying oh this could be the guy or this group of 2-3 guys is what we need but it’s way more than we expected to pay.

Overpaying simply is paying a player more than the market dictates. With the add on modifier that we need to take into account our programs need for that position.
 
No disagreement on the general thoughts here other than I don’t think Freeman “has” to play the 5 next year based on the roster as built outside of in planned or emergency scenarios.

We only have 2 actual centers and 2 PFs.
If there's an injury, both the PFs will have to play center for part of every game.
 
I would hate to see that. That means Fennell wouldn't play at all.
None of these guys is good enough to play for 35 minutes.
If they were, Georgia Tech or Syracuse would have had winning records last year.
How about this when we are trucking Lemoyne or a Youngstown by 20 Fennell plays a lot of mins and gets his feet under him and then becomes a more solid contributor off the bench. I like him and wanna see him too.

We had a nasty issue last year of having to put guys in at critical times of games when we were fighting for our lives against both bad teams or teams that way outclassed us. How many times were Petar or Moore or Cuffe out there being asked to make something happen. They were supposed to fill 5 mins here as 3rd options not be our only option some games.
 
No disagreement on the general thoughts here other than I don’t think Freeman “has” to play the 5 next year based on the roster as built outside of in planned or emergency scenarios.

We've only got 2 guys. Either he or White HAS TO play there unless we get another guy. And if one of the centers gets hurt, they BOTH have to play there. Roster can't be done yet.
 
We've only got 2 guys. Either he or White HAS TO play there unless we get another guy. And if one of the centers gets hurt, they BOTH have to play there. Roster can't be done yet.
We’re at 12 guys right now. I think it’s a good bet that lucky #13 will be a big dude but I doubt we’ll have any idea who the guy is. Guessing an overseas big that hasn’t played much. I also doubt he’ll be able to dribble or shoot.
 
How about this when we are trucking Lemoyne or a Youngstown by 20 Fennell plays a lot of mins and gets his feet under him and then becomes a more solid contributor off the bench. I like him and wanna see him too.

We had a nasty issue last year of having to put guys in at critical times of games when we were fighting for our lives against both bad teams or teams that way outclassed us. How many times were Petar or Moore or Cuffe out there being asked to make something happen. They were supposed to fill 5 mins here as 3rd options not be our only option some games.

Give the Georgia Tech kid 32 minutes. Give JJ 32 minutes. Give Kingz 32 minutes. Each gets a 4 minute rest (one TV timeout) per half. Keep 2 out of 3 of them on the floor at all times.

Then you've got 24 minutes to share among Fennell, Anthony, and Donnie's time at SF when he plays with White as the other Forward.

Donnie and Saddiq are going to play together, at least sometimes - maybe 8 minutes a game. Neither are a center, but we could play small for a few minutes with them both as our bigs and no center.

Anthony's going to expect at least 10-12 minutes. That gives Fennell one rotation in the first half.

And you maybe have a few minutes for one among Betsey, Womack or Zehpir in the first 10 games to see if any of them can become a contributor.
 
This is the exact reason not to overpay. Every year you would be chasing that unicorn and it just doesn’t exist. Another Melo may never exist. Hence the slippery slope, coaches and GMs start saying oh this could be the guy or this group of 2-3 guys is what we need but it’s way more than we expected to pay.

Overpaying simply is paying a player more than the market dictates. With the add on modifier that we need to take into account our programs need for that position.
But, “another” Melo isn’t really the point. This is an illustration of adding the player that has enough impact to make you a championship contender. And every year we should be trying to find that.

I would also suggest that this definition isn’t sufficient. It merely relies on the inherent meaning of “over-” to represent a nebulous concept of ‘too much,’ and no one can dispute that ‘too much’ isn’t too much. Making the word meaningful means we’d have to define “market value,” and since two different teams/GMs will have different needs, resources, and assessments, there isn’t an empirical value for anyone. What we decide is too much to pay—that’s based on what we have available to pay, not based on what the player could do for us.

If Cooper Flagg were available in the portal, Kline’s valuation vs Duke’s would be two different numbers. Add in all the other teams and there would be 20 different numbers. Which one represents “market value?” The highest? If that’s the case, then anyone who outbids anyone else has overpaid. But, that’s simply how you win a bid.

Don’t misunderstand me—I think this entire thing is ludicrous, but it is what we need to deal with now. And absent actual numbers, we’re still discussing this as if it’s a simple, black and white matter, when it’s more slippery than that. For example, if a GM thinks a player should be gettable for no more than $1M and he asks for 1.2, clinging to your ‘principle’ over 200k and compromising your season and the other $6M you are already paying may seem foolish to many. If you‘re sticking to your guns because going forward and paying it means you’re raising the payout level for subsequent seasons, well, other factors are going to do that for you. The amount The kid glowing to Utah is getting—that would have been outlandish a year ago.
 
No disagreement on the general thoughts here other than I don’t think Freeman “has” to play the 5 next year based on the roster as built outside of in planned or emergency scenario.
Kyle averaged 5.9 fouls per 40 minutes in conference play last year, Souare averaged 5.3 fouls per 40 minutes in conference play.

The two of them together averaged fewer minutes than Lampkin last season.

You are more optimistic than I am about the prospect of Kyle and Souare playing starter’s minutes combined next year. I’ll be thrilled if they combine to play 35-38 effective minutes and Freeman plays the rest of the center minutes. I think it’s more likely Freeman is battling centers for 8-10 minutes per game on average.

And this is the ideal. If either gets hurt, Freeman is our backup center.

They seemed to have some urgency getting a small forward. I think another big man was much more important.
 
Kyle averaged 5.9 fouls per 40 minutes in conference play last year, Souare averaged 5.3 fouls per 40 minutes in conference play.

The two of them together averaged fewer minutes than Lampkin last season.

You are more optimistic than I am about the prospect of Kyle and Souare playing starter’s minutes combined next year. I’ll be thrilled if they combine to play 35-38 effective minutes and Freeman plays the rest of the center minutes. I think it’s more likely Freeman is battling centers for 8-10 minutes per game on average.

And this is the ideal. If either gets hurt, Freeman is our backup center.

They seemed to have some urgency getting a small forward. I think another big man was much more important.
Griff’s gonna coach’em up. He’s a bigs wizard. A Bigzard, if you will.
 
Kyle averaged 5.9 fouls per 40 minutes in conference play last year, Souare averaged 5.3 fouls per 40 minutes in conference play.

The two of them together averaged fewer minutes than Lampkin last season.

You are more optimistic than I am about the prospect of Kyle and Souare playing starter’s minutes combined next year. I’ll be thrilled if they combine to play 35-38 effective minutes and Freeman plays the rest of the center minutes. I think it’s more likely Freeman is battling centers for 8-10 minutes per game on average.

And this is the ideal. If either gets hurt, Freeman is our backup center.

They seemed to have some urgency getting a small forward. I think another big man was much more important.
Lampkin wasn’t a center. He was a pf based on height. I have more confidence in Kyle from a defensive standpoint than I ever did in Lampkin.

If Donnie has to play 5-10 mpg at the 5 that’s not the end of the world. Other teams have got along fine with players like him. There’s too much obsession with pigeonholed positions. Let’s just get the best 5 on the court based on matchups.
 
But, “another” Melo isn’t really the point. This is an illustration of adding the player that has enough impact to make you a championship contender. And every year we should be trying to find that.

I would also suggest that this definition isn’t sufficient. It merely relies on the inherent meaning of “over-” to represent a nebulous concept of ‘too much,’ and no one can dispute that ‘too much’ isn’t too much. Making the word meaningful means we’d have to define “market value,” and since two different teams/GMs will have different needs, resources, and assessments, there isn’t an empirical value for anyone. What we decide is too much to pay—that’s based on what we have available to pay, not based on what the player could do for us.

If Cooper Flagg were available in the portal, Kline’s valuation vs Duke’s would be two different numbers. Add in all the other teams and there would be 20 different numbers. Which one represents “market value?” The highest? If that’s the case, then anyone who outbids anyone else has overpaid. But, that’s simply how you win a bid.

Don’t misunderstand me—I think this entire thing is ludicrous, but it is what we need to deal with now. And absent actual numbers, we’re still discussing this as if it’s a simple, black and white matter, when it’s more slippery than that. For example, if a GM thinks a player should be gettable for no more than $1M and he asks for 1.2, clinging to your ‘principle’ over 200k and compromising your season and the other $6M you are already paying may seem foolish to many. If you‘re sticking to your guns because going forward and paying it means you’re raising the payout level for subsequent seasons, well, other factors are going to do that for you. The amount The kid glowing to Utah is getting—that would have been outlandish a year ago.
Not sure why we care what freshmen are making when it’s upperclassmen driving the bus these days. It’s not 2003-2015. Rutgers paid 2 of the top 3 picks in the draft and still sucked.
 
Kyle averaged 5.9 fouls per 40 minutes in conference play last year, Souare averaged 5.3 fouls per 40 minutes in conference play.

The two of them together averaged fewer minutes than Lampkin last season.

You are more optimistic than I am about the prospect of Kyle and Souare playing starter’s minutes combined next year. I’ll be thrilled if they combine to play 35-38 effective minutes and Freeman plays the rest of the center minutes. I think it’s more likely Freeman is battling centers for 8-10 minutes per game on average.

And this is the ideal. If either gets hurt, Freeman is our backup center.

They seemed to have some urgency getting a small forward. I think another big man was much more important.

While the data isn’t wrong it’s not a great way to break down those two in a different role than they will have here. A couple of those games for Kyle skewed those figures upwards as well.

This is also still getting a bit too concerned with the 5 spot. I get many are just really wanting a 7 footer added to the mix to be used for 10 minutes a game. To me that’s a misguided security blanket based on what people think is necessary at the position vs what’s required to win.

We had pretty much zero rim protection the past two years and had one big who could handle switching off ball screens in Maliq. Maliq is more of a below the rim defender to go with. Across the front court you have at least 4 guys who are capable shot blockers and have the athleticism to switch off ball screens in the front court. That’s a big difference.

Now as we always have to caveat, that all leans on coaching to properly utilize but it’s something this current staff will have for the first time Reds tenure.
 
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Petar played in the u21 league NOT the main French league. I specifically pointed it out last offseason and was, of course, mocked. Now he’s at Long Beach state. Anyway….

Luke played in the NBL, the main league in Australia.

He played 3 mins total this year

South East Melbourne Phoenix | Official NBL Website

Right - Luke also played in the developmental league, NBL1, along with Jacob Furphy who is headed to UConn. He did well at that level and there is talent in that league but it’s also not the senior league. Given his performance and the level of competition in NBL1 has played into the expectations. Like anything tape tells a better story and he looks skilled along with having really good size for a lead guard.

There is a long list of both Aussie nationals and others who have played in the NbL1 league before cbb and done very well right out of the gate. So definitely reasons for optimism but like with any freshmen now, it’s important to not set expectations too high.
 
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Right - Luke also played in the developmental league, NBL1, along with Jacob Furphy who is headed to UConn. He did well at that level and there is talent in that league but it’s also not the senior league. Given his performance and the level of competition in NBL1 has played into the expectations. Like anything tape tells a better story and he looks skilled and skilled along with having really good side for a lead guard.

There is a long list of both Aussie nationals and others who have played in the NbL1 league before cbb and done very well right out of the gate. So definitely reasons for optimism but like with any freshmen now, it’s important to not set expectations too high.
Yep. Agreed on all. I’m high on Fennell. TBH im hoping he pushes the starters for pt.

Just hate the “he’s played against pros” without any content whatsoever
 
While the data isn’t wrong it’s not a great way to break down those two in a different role than they will have here. A couple of those games for Kyle skewed those figures upwards as well.

This is also still getting a bit too concerned with the 5 spot. I get many are just really wanting a 7 footer added to the mix to be used for 10 minutes a game. To me that’s a misguided security blanket based on what people think is necessary at the position vs what’s required to win.

We had pretty much zero rim protection the past two years and had one big who could handle switching off ball screens in Maliq. Maliq is more of a below the rim defender to go with. Across the front court you have at least 4 guys who are capable shot blockers and have the athleticism to switch off ball screens in the front court. That’s a big difference.

Now as we always have to caveat, that all leans on coaching to properly utilize but it’s something this current staff will have for the first time Reds tenure.

All you have to do is watch the games. We got blown out (10+ point margin) in literally 2/3 of our games last year.

Previous years reinforce the idea that going undersized and not enough big man depth is a losing strategy. Seven of eight teams in the Regional Finals had at least a couple big men who were good, not just live bodies.
 
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