Class of 2024 SG Gavin Doty (NY) Portal from Siena

[orangefog]

I believe its percentile for all three stats not national ranking. Poorly worded so a bit confusing.

jordoo!

Who the hell is this guy?

 

[SUbear]

he isnt wrong though, he probably isn't brought back if his last name is smith

Only another reason this version of college sports is crap.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

I should remember that people don't read what other posters are responding to. The post I responded to was not about Doty. It was about the idea of three or four Siena players coming to Syracuse. I have no problem with Doty as an option. Even considering three or four Siena transfers would have been a laughable idea in the last 50 years of Syracuse basketball.

Syracuse isn’t what Syracuse was, but Siena isn’t what it was.

 

[Cusefan0307]

247 has Wes Enis ranked one spot above Doty. Just sharing because that was one player people here wanted if Hodgson was hired.

 

[bnoro]

247 has Wes Enis ranked one spot above Doty. Just sharing because that was one player people here wanted if Hodgson was hired.

The rankings mean nothing.

 

[walsh2012]

I NEVER said Collins was better than Angeli, just that people were writing him off and not giving him a chance.

20/20 hindsight vision supports them but doesnt make you wrong by any means

 

[walsh2012]

247 has Wes Enis ranked one spot above Doty. Just sharing because that was one player people here wanted if Hodgson was hired.

Weenis

 

[bnoro]

20/20 hindsight vision supports them but doesnt make you wrong by any means

And if Doty is an ACC level starter I'll take my lumps for that. But he won't be.

 

[Cusefan0307]

The rankings mean nothing.

I’m posting on purpose just to annoy you.

 

[Orangezoo]

And if Doty is an ACC level starter I'll take my lumps for that. But he won't be.

Doty is much more likely to be an ACC level starter than Enis a BE level starter

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

???

I just stated a fact about the "star rankings" which I say all the time mean absolutely nothing.

For the 25th time, I NEVER said Collins was better than Angeli, just that people were writing him off and not giving him a chance. But god forbid you read the words I typed out.

Ummm, didn’t Collins have multiple chances, or did I miss something last season.

 

[SUFan44]

And if Doty is an ACC level starter I'll take my lumps for that. But he won't be.

I'll go on record as saying I don't necessarily want him as a starter. I think we have a budget that can help us find a higher level player that has more athleticism and profiles at a higher level in the ACC.

That said, I do think Doty could be a 4th or 5th option as a starter in the ACC. One game sample size. I get it. But Doty, as the #1 option on a 16 seed, and was taking it to the best team in the ACC.

16 points, 6-for-11 from the field in the first half. Played hurt a lot of the second half.

He won't be the #1 option on the Syracuse team next year. With how hard he plays and the way he plays, he can absolutely be a cog in the system and an impactful player. No matter if he's a starter or not.

 

[Orangezoo]

Doty went for 16 pts and 6 rebs on 6-13 shooting against Indiana. A team people call trash that was also 43rd in Ken Pom with multiple wins over B10 tourney teams. Folefac had 19 that game as well.

Doty went for 21 pts and 4 rebs against Duke ( Folefac was 18 and 7 with 7-16 shooting) on 7-20 shooting ( a stat bnoro I know loves to quote). Prior to the 7 minute mark he was 7-14 from the field and then with fatigue and injury to an ankle he hobbled on for a while he missed his final 6 shots.

Thus in the two games vs Ken Pom top 50 teams ( both on the road then neutral) he was efficient for 80 pct of his time on the floor only struggling with injury and fatigue over a 7 minute stretch.

As we are not to overly rely on rankings as I’m told- it’s typically looking at how key players fair against P4/5 competition that is a measuring stick and id say he did more than enough to make that case in those opportunities this year.

 

[Trueblue25]

Of course we’re undervaluing him. He actually knows how to be a valuable piece and be effective whether he’s lighting up the scoreboard or not.

We havent valued that here in years.

This is a player that helps teams win and be competitive.

 

[Orangezoo]

I'll go on record as saying I don't necessarily want him as a starter. I think we have a budget that can help us find a higher level player that has more athleticism and profiles at a higher level in the ACC.

That said, I do think Doty could be a 4th or 5th option as a starter in the ACC. One game sample size. I get it. But Doty, as the #1 option on a 16 seed, and was taking it to the best team in the ACC.

16 points, 6-for-11 from the field in the first half. Played hurt a lot of the second half.

He won't be the #1 option on the Syracuse team next year. With how hard he plays and the way he plays, he can absolutely be a cog in the system and an impactful player. No matter if he's a starter or not.

If he adds 10 lbs this off season an continues to improve from 3 (28 to 32 pct from frosh to soph with volume and usage increase) he can develop his way into a role that is limited by his play on both ends more than anything. So I think being down the line in terms of being 3-5 in terms of scoring options is absolutely where he lands on paper now including as more a 6th man. How that plays out is all about the players and development.

 

[phil77]

I think Doty will be fine, as I think he will provide other things besides just scoring but you can't use random 1-game stats to say he will be good in a year-long ACC schedule.

 

[2B20Again]

And if Doty is an ACC level starter I'll take my lumps for that. But he won't be.

I disagree. But I’m always wrong. So I guess you are right. You can measure height, weight, vertical leap, shooting %, etc. But to my limited knowledge, you can’t measure heart, guts, will. I believe SU just hired a coach, that was somewhat limited in some athletic categories, but overflowing in the areas that can’t be quantified. Now I’m not saying Doty is the second coming, he just shows a lot of signs.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I disagree. But I’m always wrong. So I guess you are right. You can measure height, weight, vertical leap, shooting %, etc. But to my limited knowledge, you can’t measure heart, guts, will. I believe SU just hired a coach, that was somewhat limited in some athletic categories, but overflowing in the areas that can’t be quantified. Now I’m not saying Doty is the second coming, he just shows a lot of signs.

Even so he’s 6’5” and he’s not Buddy Boeheim. He can actually move.

I think bnoro is giving lazy analysis based on pre conceived opinions and the fact we just went through hell with AA running JJ at the 2 for marathon minutes so until he produces these are the posts we will see.

 

[Orangezoo]

I think Doty will be fine, as I think he will provide other things besides just scoring but you can't use random 1-game stats to say he will be good in a year-long ACC schedule.

Don’t mean to pick on you as you are being more objective than some but folks need to pick a lane. Nothing is good enough it seems when pointing out objective facts. The last two years with any mid major portal guy we’ve had a lot of focus from those critical about performance against P5 teams and top 50 kenpom foes. The performance or lack of in those games was used bumped against playing against the typical weaker opponents the rest of the year. Now all the sudden we can’t extract anything from those games ?

It’s clear that other programs definitely came in hot with interest including top programs as folks have been willing to share. I expect he has to earn it but he is a good player and has proven it against good competition. The criticisms seem as much about frustration over Gerry being the pick more than objectively looking at Doty. I mean his numbers on Evan Miya stand up equal if not better than Knechts did at Northern Colorado in the Big Sky a weaker conference than the MAAC.

The kid can play and works relentlessly. He has things to improve and must get stronger but he’s not an unknown in what he’s capable of so claims like he will never be able to be a starter at this level and compete are just odd.

He can be a top 2 option after one year here as a starter or 6th man. I firmly believe that and the numbers and evidence going into this year support that. Now it comes down to him to put the work in and prove it.

 

[phil77]

Don’t mean to pick on you as you are being more objective than some but folks need to pick a lane. Nothing is good enough it seems when pointing out objective facts. The last two years with any mid major portal guy we’ve had a lot of focus from those critical about performance against P5 teams and top 50 kenpom foes. The performance or lack of in those games was used bumped against playing against the typical weaker opponents the rest of the year. Now all the sudden we can’t extract anything from those games ?

It’s clear that other programs definitely came in hot with interest including top programs as folks have been willing to share. I expect he has to earn it but he is a good player and has proven it against good competition. The criticisms seem as much about frustration over Gerry being the pick more than objectively looking at Doty. I mean his numbers on Evan Miya stand up equal if not better than Knechts did at Northern Colorado in the Big Sky a weaker conference than the MAAC.

The kid can play and works relentlessly. He has things to improve and must get stronger but he’s not an unknown in what he’s capable of so claims like he will never be able to be a starter at this level and compete are just odd.

He can be a top 2 option after one year here as a starter or 6th man. I firmly believe that and the numbers and evidence going into this year support that. Now it comes down to him to put the work in and prove it.

Hmmmm, I don't do any of the things you described. I don't objectively pick one game and don't look at numbers against certain teams. I have said many times I think Doty can play in the ACC. When looking at players/coaches, etc., past decisions don't impact my thought process. When I evaluate Doty, nothing about GMac comes into my thought process.

Without digging too much into the numbers, I can tell you why Knecht would be valued over Doty and why Knecht was drafted. Can Doty improve and get there sure, but there are reasons for Knecht, as he had an elite skill that Doty currently doesn't have.

 

[bnoro]

Even so he’s 6’5” and he’s not Buddy Boeheim. He can actually move.

I think bnoro is giving lazy analysis based on pre conceived opinions and the fact we just went through hell with AA running JJ at the 2 for marathon minutes so until he produces these are the posts we will see.

I'd kill to have Buddy Boeheim back over Doty.

I want a 2 who can actually SHOOT THE BALL.

 

[bnoro]

Ummm, didn’t Collins have multiple chances, or did I miss something last season.

The whole argument was before he got his chance, so yeah you missed something.

 

[jordoo]

What do people mean when they say ACC level starter? There are 18 teams and 90 starters. There are a lot of players that are better than some of those 90 guys. I think the question needs to be can Doty and Folefac be a part of a top 5/6 roster in the ACC. The answer to that is emphatically, yes.

Its very hard to judge their roles until the roster fills out. Two quality players that Gerry knows will play his way and help instill his culture are no brainers IMO. That doesn't mean I think both should be instant starters/primary options/35 min guys. I do think both are a great start to building a roster.

 

[Orangezoo]

Hmmmm, I don't do any of the things you described. I don't objectively pick one game and don't look at numbers against certain teams. I have said many times I think Doty can play in the ACC. When looking at players/coaches, etc., past decisions don't impact my thought process. When I evaluate Doty, nothing about GMac comes into my thought process.

Without digging too much into the numbers, I can tell you why Knecht would be valued over Doty and why Knecht was drafted. Can Doty improve and get there sure, but there are reasons for Knecht, as he had an elite skill that Doty currently doesn't have.

Which is why I made it clear it wasn’t directed at you just tacking on. Knecht became draftable at Tennessee. His numbers at Northern Colorado were good numbers, his measurables were a bit different but the level of competition and the efficiency numbers differed very little. The performance vs top 50 Ken Pom over a small sample size were also similarly decent. To look back at Knecht and say it was clear what he was going to do is allowing the outcome since he left Northern Colorado to skew things. Also the only point for using Knecht is people know him not to say Doty is going to play at the next level. It’s just to say that the takes about him not being capable don’t add up when you can see a similar profile from a similar level of competition played out.

One nugget also is Knecht played two years of Juco before two years at Northern Colorado vs Doty is in year 3, Knecht went to UT in year 5.

There is logic to him succeeding vs failing. The rest is up to him and has to play out. Clearly Gerry isn’t alone in seeing his value and potential.

 

[phil77]

Which is why I made it clear it wasn’t directed at you just tacking on. Knecht became draftable at Tennessee. His numbers at Northern Colorado were good numbers, his measurables were a bit different but the level of competition and the efficiency numbers differed very little. The performance vs top 50 Ken Pom over a small sample size were also similarly decent. To look back at Knecht and say it was clear what he was going to do is allowing the outcome since he left Northern Colorado to skew things. Also the only point for using Knecht is people know him not to say Doty is going to play at the next level. It’s just to say that the takes about him not being capable don’t add up when you can see a similar profile from a similar level of competition played out.

One nugget also is Knecht played two years of Juco before two years at Northern Colorado vs Doty is in year 3, Knecht went to UT in year 5.

There is logic to him succeeding vs failing. The rest is up to him and has to play out. Clearly Gerry isn’t alone in seeing his value and potential.

Just and FYI Knecht got drafted because he shot 40% from 3 in the SEC. His shooting is what got him to Tennesse also.