Shafer's compensation

[tbonezone]

frankly he's lucky to have this job imo. be a fool to walk away at present salary.

 

[Crusty]

frankly he's lucky to have this job imo. be a fool to walk away at present salary.

Not saying he is going to walk away now. He could get a DC job in about 5 minutes. I am only making two points - 1- we are last and very well below the average for our new conference, and 2- when dealing with commodity employment type markets it pays to stay ahead of your staff's expectations because it saves money in the long run. BTW Shafer makes the same as Skip Holtz.

 

[SUalldway]

There is no doubt that HCSS deserves a raise. Doug left the cupboard bare about a month before national signing day. The first thing Shaf did was to assemble a top staff. Next he brought in one heck of a class given the timing of Dougs departure and the entire staff. Next up is a very difficult schedule. Two bigs to kick things off followed by a brutal ACC schedule. Our 7-6 record is strong and we finished on an up note winning two games against two tough opponents at the last minute. Give the guy an extension now. Make it a step scale with a bonus structure for bowl games and attendance increases. Provide 250k minimum to distribute to the staff as Shaf sees fit. Get it done now lock this guy up for the next 5 years and make sure you put a hefty buy out into his deal. I would say 2m. Get it done as we will be hard pressed to find a better fit for Syracuse.

100% agree - get it done right away to keep the momentum going!

 

[supp]

Not saying he is going to walk away now. He could get a DC job in about 5 minutes. I am only making two points - 1- we are last and very well below the average for our new conference, and 2- when dealing with commodity employment type markets it pays to stay ahead of your staff's expectations because it saves money in the long run. BTW Shafer makes the same as Skip Holtz.

He's getting paid what he deserves given his resume and the situation. Nearly all the ACC coaches above him had HC experience coming in, had success as HCs coming in. There are always some outliers but the majority of his peers get more because they've earned more. SU took a chance on Shafer and paid what he's worth as a career assistant who's getting his first chance to lead his own program. 7-6 is a good start but it's not by any stretch of the imagination a miraculous, "we've got to worry about Shafer taking off" kind of season. If he exceeds expectations next year, then you think about it paying him more. You also think about raising the buyout on his contract in tandem with the pay raise. But if the deeper pocketed programs come calling and several millions more means something to Shafer, then a preemptive pay rise this year or next is not making a difference.

 

[Timonen]

Not saying he is going to walk away now. He could get a DC job in about 5 minutes. I am only making two points - 1- we are last and very well below the average for our new conference, and 2- when dealing with commodity employment type markets it pays to stay ahead of your staff's expectations because it saves money in the long run. BTW Shafer makes the same as Skip Holtz.

I'm not saying that staying ahead of salary expectations isn't useful, but in our scenario, we'd not be losing him to a parallel move. If he's successful enough to be poached, we'd lose him to someone who pays exponentially more than us anyway. Our raise would never keep him from the MSU type jobs. It's just am exercise in making ourselves feel good in the moment.

 

[SUalldway]

He's getting paid what he deserves given his resume and the situation. Nearly all the ACC coaches above him had HC experience coming in, had success as HCs coming in. There are always some outliers but the majority of his peers get more because they've earned more. SU took a chance on Shafer and paid what he's worth as a career assistant who's getting his first chance to lead his own program. 7-6 is a good start but it's not by any stretch of the imagination a miraculous, "we've got to worry about Shafer taking off" kind of season. If he exceeds expectations next year, then you think about it paying him more. You also think about raising the buyout on his contract in tandem with the pay raise. But if the deeper pocketed programs come calling and several millions more means something to Shafer, then a preemptive pay rise this year or next is not making a difference.

It should be pay for performance. HCSS's performance exceeded consensus expectations. He should be awarded, as well as to a varying extent, his staff. I really don't care if there are some other ACC coaches that have more tenure.

 

[orangeinjersey]

Shafer won't ask for a raise and doc won't offer nor should they. Let's see 9-4 next year before we start offering raises and extensions. Shafer isn't going anywhere. On my drive down to Florida yesterday I did here somebody on xm mention that Shafer could be a good fit at MSU or other Big 10 schools if a job did open up. Their words not mine.

I don't see Shafer leaving anytime soon, 5-6 years at least if not longer, he remembers what it's like to be run out of town by factory places. He loves this freaking town

I think HCSS would think twice about a big time BiG10 school. Remember he has first hand experience wit the short leash of his RichRod Michigan fiasco. He has said multiple times, that he was lured in by the allure of "Michigan" without thinking about the situation. Add to that he has mentioned that his enjoys Syracuse, wants his kids to grow up in one place for a while etc. Honestly, besides the BiG elite, I doont see HCSS leaving SU for a HC job at Illinois, Minnesota or Iowa State type program.

Now I am not saying, the HCSS is here to stay, just sayin, it wont be for a mid pack BiG school

 

[anomander]

The recruits sense of stability is the university, just like everywhere else. Any bump we give Shafer doesn't make him any more stable is MSU or someone similar comes calling next year. Same deal at every other school. Let's put money into where it needs to go functionally versus deciding where it goes based on recruit's perceived perceptions.

Wait now we are inferior to MSU. What have they ever done? There is no way that is a place he would run off to just because they want him.

 

[CanadianSU]

The thread is about giving the guy a raise, not giving him Saban money after one year. The man deserves a raise...

 

[supp]

It should be pay for performance. HCSS's performance exceeded consensus expectations. He should be awarded, as well as to a varying extent, his staff. I really don't care if there are some other ACC coaches that have more tenure.

That's silly. They gave him the HC job because they expected him to succeed. He accepted the job and signed the contract because he was prepared to meet those expectations. Now that he's a whole one game over .500, SU has to rip up his contract and give him a bunch more money? I think people are failing to see SU's side in this. They took a risk and so far it's paid off. But that doesn't mean that they struck gold yet. What if his career follows a Tim Brewster trajectory? Then what? SU has no reason to renegotiate and Shafer is in no position to demand a renegotiation.

 

[jr4750]

I think you have to wait at least one more year before revisiting the contract.

Absolutely, come on 7-6 isn't bad, but no one gets a raise out of that. Screw that!!

 

[SUalldway]

That's silly. They gave him the HC job because they expected him to succeed. He accepted the job and signed the contract because he was prepared to meet those expectations. Now that he's a whole one game over .500, SU has to rip up his contract and give him a bunch more money? I think people are failing to see SU's side in this. They took a risk and so far it's paid off. But that doesn't mean that they struck gold yet. What if his career follows a Tim Brewster trajectory? Then what? SU has no reason to renegotiate and Shafer is in no position to demand a renegotiation.

Pay for performance is silly? Where did you have SU finishing in the ACC Atlantic Division pre-season?

 

[supp]

Pay for performance is silly?

They are paying him for performance. Are they paying him 1.3 million a year (plus postseason bonuses) to lose? Let's be serious here: when did a 7-6 season justify a pay raise? And let's say we give him that raise: what if he doesn't meet "consensus expectations" next year? Do we get to take that pay raise back? As I said in my first post, he's getting paid what he deserves given his resume and the situation.

 

[Crusty]

They are paying him for performance. Are they paying him 1.3 million a year (plus postseason bonuses) to lose? Let's be serious here: when did a 7-6 season justify a pay raise? And let's say we give him that raise: what if he doesn't meet "consensus expectations" next year? Do we get to take that pay raise back? As I said in my first post, he's getting paid what he deserves given his resume and the situation.

Yes, if he was in the AAC.

 

[BlackKnight76]

I'd be cool with Shafer getting a bit of a raise, but I'd rather see any extra money go to the assistants.

 

[orange79]

I'd be cool with Shafer getting a bit of a raise, but I'd rather see any extra money go to the assistants.

I would think, that with ACC money, Shafer gets a bump soon. And a larger assistant budget.

 

[SUbear]

I would think, that with ACC money, Shafer gets a bump soon. And a larger assistant budget.

I would be very surprised if his current contract does not include some kind of performance clause, and because I believe he would have satisfied some of those performance criteria he is already on track for a salary boost of undetermined amount. I would hope that is also true for those assistants who performed at a high level.
I much prefer performance enhancements than just throwing money at people.

Pretty sure this is a thread with much ado about nothing in reality.

 

[Crusty]

Pretty sure this is a thread with much ado about nothing in reality.

You got that right. I think it is important for fns to know where we stand in the compensation structure of the conference and the needs going forward.

 

[MadNY3]

and about $300,000 less than Addazio.

Ugh! Really? Hope he loves this frickin' town. Step up, Doc.

If "he loves this town" is a metric, we should pay GRob for a few more years because his kid stayed.

Good God, this board would be the worst negotiators on the planet.

Addazio went from Florida OC to turning around Temple as a HC to BC.

Love Shafer, but if he is paid more then what Addazio got from Temple, that is a good trade for a rookie HC.

Let him earn the renegotiation, which happens when other teams come cAlling. That ain't happenings his year, but let's hope for further progress so maybe it does.

 

[MadNY3]

There is no doubt that HCSS deserves a raise. Doug left the cupboard bare about a month before national signing day. The first thing Shaf did was to assemble a top staff. Next he brought in one heck of a class given the timing of Dougs departure and the entire staff. Next up is a very difficult schedule. Two bigs to kick things off followed by a brutal ACC schedule. Our 7-6 record is strong and we finished on an up note winning two games against two tough opponents at the last minute. Give the guy an extension now. Make it a step scale with a bonus structure for bowl games and attendance increases. Provide 250k minimum to distribute to the staff as Shaf sees fit. Get it done now lock this guy up for the next 5 years and make sure you put a hefty buy out into his deal. I would say 2m. Get it done as we will be hard pressed to find a better fit for Syracuse.

I would love to negotiate against you in buying a house.

He is not going anywhere and a new deal does not guarantee him from going anywhere else either. Come on...I expected you knew more on the realities of "the game."

 

[Crusty]

I would love to negotiate against you in buying a house.

He is not going anywhere and a new deal does not guarantee him from going anywhere else either. Come on...I expected you knew more on the realities of "the game."

Have you ever managed a staff of professionals paid like commodities to the highest bidder? If so, then you know that it is not a simple one-off negotiation. With so much at stake a lot depends on the trust and respect that is built prior to the day when someone else is knocking on the door. You have a chance to raise the premium the other guy has to pay to poach your people. Preempting negotiations usually results in paying less than simply responding. When you try to do it on the cheap you always wind up the loser.

 

[kcsu]

I would love to negotiate against you in buying a house.

He is not going anywhere and a new deal does not guarantee him from going anywhere else either. Come on...I expected you knew more on the realities of "the game."

The reality of the game is the last company i ran had over 20k people on an global basis. Paying him more money now is the smart move. The buy out clause is an insurance policy and down payment on the next head coach in the event that Shaf hits a home run and decides to leave. Home negotiations are simple finding a head coach who is a good fit for your program and community is a little more difficult. Small rewards go a very long way in building loyalty and trust.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I agree with Mad here.. You don't start negotiating with the guy yet. Bad bad business practice. Guy got the job 1 year ago, was hired to be the HC, he's been there 5 years, he obviously likes where he is at. He did his job this year. 7-6 with some good wins a couple real bad losses as well. Good start but you don't start handing out raises yet. 1 year gets you the next in this business as a new HC.

Let's see improvement versus better teams next hear, ability to coach up versus better teams. Teams will come calling regardless what we do now if he is successful. I think an internal hire shows faith and trust by the ad already. I doubt the search was exhaustive at all.

 

[Statesman1]

The reality of the game is the last company i ran had over 20k people on an global basis. Paying him more money now is the smart move. The buy out clause is an insurance policy and down payment on the next head coach in the event that Shaf hits a home run and decides to leave. Home negotiations are simple finding a head coach who is a good fit for your program and community is a little more difficult. Small rewards go a very long way in building loyalty and trust.

Syracuse never has had and never will have the resources to compete with the factories. If and when Shafer gets an offer he can't refuse we will not be able to compete- unless the deep pockets decide to finally come out of the woodwork and chip in. I'd like to think his contract has some incentives built in that he has hopefully already reached. In the meantime, would a few hundred grand raise now after a 7-6 season deter him from going when that day comes? You might be right- Jimmy B has stayed here for other reasons at a below market rate but he is a very unusual guy and this truly was his dream job. I don't know Shafer personally-I like him and I hope he is successful and he stays a long time. I believe he was fairly compensated for a first year head coach. In the meantime I would be in favor of continuing to make the capital improvements that help create the atmosphere that attracts the players as well as the coaches.

 

[Rocco]

I think the bigger issue at hand comes down to how little Syracuse Football pays their coaching staff. Yes, from 2002-2008 this program was a colossal wet fart. Marrone came in and turned it around, Shafer did well continuing that his 1st year and hopefully will continue the upward trajectory. If Syracuse wants to ever be serious about advancing it's football program though, at some point, they will have to open up their pockets a lot more. No reason schools like Wake Forest, SMU, Cincy, Navy, Duke, Pitt and USF can afford to significantly pay more for their HC (some being 1st year HC's) than Syracuse University can. I know a lot more goes into it than that, but we will always be treated as a "stone-skipping" school until we pony up.