Shafer's compensation

[CousCuse]

I think the bigger issue at hand comes down to how little Syracuse Football pays their coaching staff. Yes, from 2002-2008 this program was a colossal wet fart. Marrone came in and turned it around, Shafer did well continuing that his 1st year and hopefully will continue the upward trajectory. If Syracuse wants to ever be serious about advancing it's football program though, at some point, they will have to open up their pockets a lot more. No reason schools like Wake Forest, SMU, Cincy, Navy, Duke, Pitt and USF can afford to significantly pay more for their HC (some being 1st year HC's) than Syracuse University can. I know a lot more goes into it than that, but we will always be treated as a "stone-skipping" school until we pony up.

The reason that Syracuse was a desired partner by major conferences is because of the football tradition. Now the athletics dept. grosses and additional say 15 million due to that fact and they don't want to invest that money in the coaching staff . Which would fill the dome,, increase ticket prices and alumni gifting, sell more concessions etc,etc,etc. Run it as if it's a business for crying out .

 

[JoeSU]

I think you have to wait at least one more year before revisiting the contract.

Why not use some of the bowl revenue to simply give the entire coaching staff a bonus, which defers any contract re-negotiation at this point? I seem to recall other teams doing this in the past. Maybe $100K for Shaf, $50K for McDonald and Bullough, and $25K for the position coaches.

 

[rrlbees]

Why not use some of the bowl revenue to simply give the entire coaching staff a bonus, which avoids any contract re-negotiation at this point?

Those types of incentives are built into contracts quite often. Don't know what Shafer's is but he doesn't have a year to year deal like most of us and we get a 3-4% increase if we performed well. It's a 4 year deal with X per year and possibly some incentive bonuses built in.

 

[EastBayCuse]

I am wondering if it was tight-fisted compensation policy that caused Marrone and most of his staff to leave for the NFL? Where they expecting raises after a great win over WVa in the Pinstripe Bowl, that never materialized? If so, the AD should have learned a lesson and be more generous to the current staff.
IMO they deserved significant raises after that win, regardless what was built into their contracts.

 

[CousCuse]

MacDonald and Bollough would never have taken asst jobs with Scott had his first head coaching job had been at a MAC (Love Maction) school, but because he could ply them with Jim Brown, Don McNabb et al the took they took the opportunity. Now he has a high level coaching staff together that, B1G schools are already considering. Wake the , you snooze,you looze.

 

[rrlbees]

I am wondering if it was tight-fisted compensation policy that caused Marrone and most of his staff to leave for the NFL? Where they expecting raises after a great win over WVa in the Pinstripe Bowl, that never materialized? If so, the AD should have learned a lesson and be more generous to the current staff.
IMO they deserved significant raises after that win, regardless what was built into their contracts.

Nope, not at all. Marrone had no problem with his contract or salary. He was getting a raise that year.

 

[Orangepace]

Why not use some of the bowl revenue to simply give the entire coaching staff a bonus, which defers any contract re-negotiation at this point? I seem to recall other teams doing this in the past. Maybe $100K for Shaf, $50K for McDonald and Bullough, and $25K for the position coaches.

That wouldn't be revisiting the contract, so I could get behind that. That said, a 7-6 season was really great from our perspective, however, they need to prove themselves further to warrant any contract changes.

 

[Crusty]

That wouldn't be revisiting the contract, so I could get behind that. That said, a 7-6 season was really great from our perspective, however, they need to prove themselves further to warrant any contract changes.

That is precisely the type of thing that goes a long way.

 

[cuseinchina]

That's silly. They gave him the HC job because they expected him to succeed. He accepted the job and signed the contract because he was prepared to meet those expectations. Now that he's a whole one game over .500, SU has to rip up his contract and give him a bunch more money? I think people are failing to see SU's side in this. They took a risk and so far it's paid off. But that doesn't mean that they struck gold yet. What if his career follows a Tim Brewster trajectory? Then what? SU has no reason to renegotiate and Shafer is in no position to demand a renegotiation.

We hired internally on the cheap a guy with no head coaching experience. I thought at the time it was the right hire and continue to think so. Given the low starting point, if you like what you see in year one and see potential for continued improvement, then you bump the guy up to something above bargain basement - just discount or value. Show him some support so he feels like the school and the AD are behind him. It's not about giving him a $500k raise and locking him down, it's about giving him $100k and saying look we are glad we made this decision to go with you - you can also bump up the incentives and give him a little extra money for assistants. You look at a long-term significant bump after a few more years. Investing a little early goes a long way towards building loyalty and good will. A guy like Shafer who has been in some bad situations is going to appreciate being in a good job with AD support and while he may not be an alum seems like he'd be significantly less likely to quit before the job was done than marrone proved to be. If dealt with properly I don't think he leaves until he has SU football brushing up on top 25 consistently. That is pure conjecture have nothing really to back it up.

btw- wouldn't surprise me if he promises to make his OC the successor if they are able to build this over the next couple years - they will need some hook to keep MacDonald around as looking at the recruits we could have a pretty exciting offense a couple years from now.

 

[Scooch]

I don't really care what the SUAD does regarding Shafer's salary but the idea that anything would engender some amount of loyalty is thoroughly hysterical.

Do you guys actually follow college football?

 

[Statesman1]

I am wondering if it was tight-fisted compensation policy that caused Marrone and most of his staff to leave for the NFL? Where they expecting raises after a great win over WVa in the Pinstripe Bowl, that never materialized? If so, the AD should have learned a lesson and be more generous to the current staff.
IMO they deserved significant raises after that win, regardless what was built into their contracts.

I think it was a job offer from the NFL that caused HCDM and staff to go to the NFL

 

[cuseinchina]

I don't really care what the SUAD does regarding Shafer's salary but the idea that anything would engender some amount of loyalty is thoroughly hysterical.

Do you guys actually follow college football?

Showing respect and commitment to a coach will engender a greater degree of loyalty than will paying conference low salaries and not giving money to reward assistants.

What that loyalty translates to depends on the personality of the coach in question, their background, and their ability to have a long view when it comes to their careers. For some guys loyalty means they might say thank you on the way out as they jump for more money or prestige. I think for a guy like Shafer it means getting the program to near its long-term peak potential and then jumping only when something really good comes up in the Midwest. Without support from the AD his loyalty may only last until a bad Big10 job offer comes up.

Again purely conjecture but to just say there is no point in trying to build loyalty and commitment seems to be even more negative than can be justified by the evidence.

 

[Statesman1]

I don't really care what the SUAD does regarding Shafer's salary but the idea that anything would engender some amount of loyalty is thoroughly hysterical.

Do you guys actually follow college football?

So true. Loyalty goes out the window when the big boys come calling with their checkbooks, facilities, and opportunity to compete for championships. Chipping off a few hundy early on isn't going to change that--

 

[Scooch]

Showing respect and commitment to a coach will engender a greater degree of loyalty than will paying conference low salaries and not giving money to reward assistants. What that loyalty translates to depends on the personality of the coach in question, their background, and their ability to have a long view when it comes to their careers. For some guys loyalty means they might say thank you on the way out as they jump for more money or prestige. I think for a guy like Shafer it means getting the program to near its long-term peak potential and then jumping only when something really good comes up in the Midwest. Without support from the AD his loyalty may only last until a bad Big10 job offer comes up. Again purely conjecture but to just say there is no point in trying to build loyalty and commitment seems to be even more negative than can be justified by the evidence.

I think SU should commit money to building great facilities and compensating the staff so that money isn't the overriding reason why an assistant might leave. I'd expect that if Shafer continues to win he'll get a bump and extension that will put him in the middle of the ACC pack, which is SU's ceiling in terms of pay.

I think giving the guy a hundy and a handshake this offseason would be appreciated, and immediately forgotten if he wins and an upper-tier power 5 job was offered to him. I'd MUCH rather build the infrastructure of SU to make sure the next coach has the tools necessary to succeed.

Shafer is a head football coach, they are all cut from the same cloth.

 

[cuseinchina]

I think SU should commit money to building great facilities and compensating the staff so that money isn't the overriding reason why an assistant might leave. I'd expect that if Shafer continues to win he'll get a bump and extension that will put him in the middle of the ACC pack, which is SU's ceiling in terms of pay.

I think giving the guy a hundy and a handshake this offseason would be appreciated, and immediately forgotten if he wins and an upper-tier power 5 job was offered to him. I'd MUCH rather build the infrastructure of SU to make sure the next coach has the tools necessary to succeed.

Shafer is a head football coach, they are all cut from the same cloth.

fine but a couple hundred grand between Shafer and his staff isn't going to build anything in terms of facilities. And as someone else commented, giving pay increases earlier but more often generally tends to be cheaper long-term. I think every decision should be made with the long-term in mind. I definitely think they should allocating funds to facilities- but I don't see how that precludes spending a little to show the current coaches some appreciation.

Anyway we aren't going to agree on this.

 

[SUbear]

I am wondering if it was tight-fisted compensation policy that caused Marrone and most of his staff to leave for the NFL? Where they expecting raises after a great win over WVa in the Pinstripe Bowl, that never materialized? If so, the AD should have learned a lesson and be more generous to the current staff.
IMO they deserved significant raises after that win, regardless what was built into their contracts.

Syracuse will never be able to pay enough to its coaches to stop pro teams from getting them if they want them! Pro teams just have much bigger pockets.
The only thing that might keep a coach at SU in that situation is love of where they are and what they are doing. Those coaches are becoming very rare items indeed.

 

[Statesman1]

Showing respect and commitment to a coach will engender a greater degree of loyalty than will paying conference low salaries and not giving money to reward assistants.

What that loyalty translates to depends on the personality of the coach in question, their background, and their ability to have a long view when it comes to their careers. For some guys loyalty means they might say thank you on the way out as they jump for more money or prestige. I think for a guy like Shafer it means getting the program to near its long-term peak potential and then jumping only when something really good comes up in the Midwest. Without support from the AD his loyalty may only last until a bad Big10 job offer comes up.

Again purely conjecture but to just say there is no point in trying to build loyalty and commitment seems to be even more negative than can be justified by the evidence.

I think SU should commit money to building great facilities and compensating the staff so that money isn't the overriding reason why an assistant might leave. I'd expect that if Shafer continues to win he'll get a bump and extension that will put him in the middle of the ACC pack, which is SU's ceiling in terms of pay.

I think giving the guy a hundy and a handshake this offseason would be appreciated, and immediately forgotten if he wins and an upper-tier power 5 job was offered to him. I'd MUCH rather build the infrastructure of SU to make sure the next coach has the tools necessary to succeed.

Yup

Shafer is a head football coach, they are all cut from the same cloth.

Have you ever managed a staff of professionals paid like commodities to the highest bidder? If so, then you know that it is not a simple one-off negotiation. With so much at stake a lot depends on the trust and respect that is built prior to the day when someone else is knocking on the door. You have a chance to raise the premium the other guy has to pay to poach your people. Preempting negotiations usually results in paying less than simply responding. When you try to do it on the cheap you always wind up the loser.

Isn't offering a measly bonus early on trying to do things on the cheap? Honestly if we want to do this thing right we need to triple what we are willing to pay in salaries (not to mention make the capital improvements to compete with our peers). Until the economics of Syracuse football change dramatically (beyond the ACC $) and the big donors step up to pay that kind of $$ we are talking about nothing. There is no loyalty in college football to be garnered with small bonuses.

 

[Full_Rebar]

One of Marrone's issues was the amount of $ he had to pay assistant coaches. It improved during his time, but it was a big point of contention between him and the admins (along with the lack of an IPF)

 

[MadNY3]

The reality of the game is the last company i ran had over 20k people on an global basis. Paying him more money now is the smart move. The buy out clause is an insurance policy and down payment on the next head coach in the event that Shaf hits a home run and decides to leave. Home negotiations are simple finding a head coach who is a good fit for your program and community is a little more difficult. Small rewards go a very long way in building loyalty and trust.

You are comparing completely different games. Completely different.

Give him more input on some off-the-field stuff would be my reward to him. Want to schedule some teams in Illinois/Mich to help with your recruiting philosophy? On it. That stuff.

 

[Crusty]

Isn't offering a measly bonus early on trying to do things on the cheap? Honestly if we want to do this thing right we need to triple what we are willing to pay in salaries (not to mention make the capital improvements to compete with our peers). Until the economics of Syracuse football change dramatically (beyond the ACC $) and the big donors step up to pay that kind of $$ we are talking about nothing. There is no loyalty in college football to be garnered with small bonuses.

You obviously missed my point which is to raise the premium others have to pay to even start a conversation. Except for the very top name coaches, they don't spend their time engaging on every job that comes along unless they are disgruntled from one of a variety of factors including money.

 

[CousCuse]

If you look up Head Coaches salary, it almost exactly correlates to their respective RPI and recruiting.

 

[Statesman1]

You obviously missed my point which is to raise the premium others have to pay to even start a conversation. Except for the very top name coaches, they don't spend their time engaging on every job that comes along unless they are disgruntled from one of a variety of factors including money.

Crusty with all respect the schools and the NFL teams that we might lose Shafer to will have no trouble starting and ending the conversation when it comes to $. Unless Prince Al-Waleed bin Talal suddenly takes an interest in SU athletics, we are not in the same league financially with those entities. If your point is that we need to be competitive with the Illinois/Wake Forests of the world I wholeheartedly agree. But the best way to accomplish this is to build the infrastructure and winning atmosphere, along with a fair salary. Let's be real- if the NFL or top factories come calling, we cannot compete and will lose 99.9999999% of the time.

 

[Bonz44]

I remember reading somewhere that Shafer was going to get paid a little less than market so he would have more money to throw at asst coaches? Was that a rumor on the board or a syracuse.com article or am I just nuts? All answers are acceptable...

 

[Crusty]

Crusty with all respect the schools and the NFL teams that we might lose Shafer to will have no trouble starting and ending the conversation when it comes to $. Unless Prince Al-Waleed bin Talal suddenly takes an interest in SU athletics, we are not in the same league financially with those entities. If your point is that we need to be competitive with the Illinois/Wake Forests of the world I wholeheartedly agree. But the best way to accomplish this is to build the infrastructure and winning atmosphere, along with a fair salary. Let's be real- if the NFL or top factories come calling, we cannot compete and will lose 99.9999999% of the time.

That is my point. The NFL is not coming to call on Shaf anytime soon but there are plenty of schools out there that might find a couple of million plus money for a staff to be bargain. I am really not advocating anything special at the moment except perhaps to extend contracts by a year with a small bump. Gestures like that go a long way to keeping the troops happy and more loyal than you might think. The devil that they know cannot be a cheapskate but rather someone that recognizes your value and expresses it often. That is my only point.

If the recruiting class closes out as the best in a decade and we have an 8-5 or even 9-4 season, the college football world will notice. If the Bills suck again next year there will be those that will say that SU's resurrection was more Shafer than Marrone. (I don't believe that but just watch what the Bills fans say next year.)

It always costs more to replace than to retain.

 

[Crusty]

I remember reading somewhere where Shafer's was going to get paid a little less than market so he would have more money to throw at asst coaches? Was that a rumor on the board or a syracuse.com article or am I just nuts? All answers are acceptable...

I had not heard that but it certainly would be interesting, if true.