Sherrone Moore / Michigan Dumpster Fire

[MikeSU02]

Home run hire for UM.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Home run hire for UM.

In part because he might bring them the best coaches from BYU and the U of U.

Who could Kyle Whittingham potentially target for possible Michigan staff?

Whittingham taking the Michigan job could have a ripple effect throughout college football in the state of Utah.

www.deseret.com

We know Beck is really good, but people on this board might not be familiar with how good BYU's defensive coordinator is or how good Utah's offensive line coach is.

 

[OburgOrange]

 

[Toga]

In part because he might bring them the best coaches from BYU and the U of U.

Who could Kyle Whittingham potentially target for possible Michigan staff?

Whittingham taking the Michigan job could have a ripple effect throughout college football in the state of Utah.

www.deseret.com

We know Beck is really good, but people on this board might not be familiar with how good BYU's defensive coordinator is or how good Utah's offensive line coach is.

Beck was lined up to bring us LaNorris Sellers.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Michigan handing a 66 year old coach a 5 year deal makes no long term sense. Coaches don’t suddenly hit a second prime at that age they decline, retire or get pushed out. It’s the same pattern every time. Saban slowed down in his late 60s. Mack Brown hit the wall. Beamer faded. Snyder needed two retirements. Cutcliffe, Patterson, Miles, Brian Kelly, Orgeron, Jimbo Fisher, all of them fell off hard once they crossed that mid 60s line. Didn't Whittingham already step away at Utah because the grind was catching up to him? That was at 66. Now Michigan is pretending he’s about to launch a five year rebuild?

How would you expect him to be able to recruit on a deal that was shorter than that?

Also, word is Whittingham and the AD weren't getting along. Not sure he lost the fire. He was pretty clear he was stepping down but not necessarily stepping away from coaching.

He gets a chance to end his career saving Michigan. He's absolutely taking that shot.

 

[MikeSU02]

Michigan handing a 66 year old coach a 5 year deal makes no long term sense. Coaches don’t suddenly hit a second prime at that age they decline, retire or get pushed out. It’s the same pattern every time. Saban slowed down in his late 60s. Mack Brown hit the wall. Beamer faded. Snyder needed two retirements. Cutcliffe, Patterson, Miles, Brian Kelly, Orgeron, Jimbo Fisher, all of them fell off hard once they crossed that mid 60s line. Didn't Whittingham already step away at Utah because the grind was catching up to him? That was at 66. Now Michigan is pretending he’s about to launch a five year rebuild?

First, they are handing him the keys bc the football program has to be cleaned up tip to tail. You have to bring in instant integrity as a priority.

Second, he has to basically be an acting AD.

Third, he’s an awesome HC. UM can recruit itself. He’s going to get talent. He’s going to win.

Fourth, the guys you mentioned are all over the map. 2019 LSU could have had a fan of the week coaching them and won a chip vs what a Saban did. You cannot compare Orgeron and Miles with the greatest cfb HC of all time.

This is a home run hire for UM.

 

[MikeSU02]

Btw, the rumor is Warde had basically zero to do with this and is an empty suit at this point. Thats why the note I have about being an acting AD is stated above.

UM has had a series of screw ups. And bad ones.

Let me ask people this: how many coaches you think programs wouldn’t trade for Whitt right now?

Cig, Kirby, Lanning, maybe KDB. Day. Etc.

The list isn’t that long.

Whitt is a monster hire and is pulling good assistants.

 

[djorange1989]

Beck was lined up to bring us LaNorris Sellers.

Yeah the only reason the kid committed to us was Beck coming from UVA. Too many people got in his ear, tough for him to say no to the local school so even Beck couldn’t keep him committed

 

[Moontan]

Agree. I figured once he retired at Utah, he was retired for good, not for a month.

I wonder what his wife thinks of all this.

“I thought you were going to retire and we get to enjoy life.”

It’s a good move for Michigan as they need to reboot their whole program. Something tells me he’ll only be there for 3-4 years and get them back in order.

 

[JKinUtah]

How would you expect him to be able to recruit on a deal that was shorter than that?

Also, word is Whittingham and the AD weren't getting along. Not sure he lost the fire. He was pretty clear he was stepping down but not necessarily stepping away from coaching.

He gets a chance to end his career saving Michigan. He's absolutely taking that shot.

Plus I have to think the fact the Utes signed on with a PE investor had something to do with it. It may be coming to Michigan soon, but he probably didn’t want to deal with that at the U.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Plus I have to think the fact the Utes signed on with a PE investor had something to do with it. It may be coming to Michigan soon, but he probably didn’t want to deal with that at the U.

Didn't even make that connection, but absolutely.

 

[PAcuse]

Michigan handing a 66 year old coach a 5 year deal makes no long term sense. Coaches don’t suddenly hit a second prime at that age they decline, retire or get pushed out. It’s the same pattern every time. Saban slowed down in his late 60s. Mack Brown hit the wall. Beamer faded. Snyder needed two retirements. Cutcliffe, Patterson, Miles, Brian Kelly, Orgeron, Jimbo Fisher, all of them fell off hard once they crossed that mid 60s line. Didn't Whittingham already step away at Utah because the grind was catching up to him? That was at 66. Now Michigan is pretending he’s about to launch a five year rebuild?

Saban slow down...what...
Let's look at his slow down years of age 66 until retirement (which was due to NIL and the other changes).
2017-2023 he went 87-8 and won 2 national champoinships while making the finals 5 times.
4 top overall signing classes during that time and never lower then 7th.

The other folks yes you make solid points other then Coach O. He was handed a national champoinship with that team and then quickly was pushed out after he didn't have that much talent and could not keep it in his pants.

Whittingham did step down as he felt his time was over at Utah and some have hinted he was forced out to make room for the coach in waiting.

Last and most important point. Brain Kelly killed a kid.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Saban slow down...what...
Let's look at his slow down years of age 66 until retirement (which was due to NIL and the other changes).
2017-2023 he went 87-8 and won 2 national champoinships while making the finals 5 times.
4 top overall signing classes during that time and never lower then 7th.

The other folks yes you make solid points other then Coach O. He was handed a national champoinship with that team and then quickly was pushed out after he didn't have that much talent and could not keep it in his pants.

Whittingham did step down as he felt his time was over at Utah and some have hinted he was forced out to make room for the coach in waiting.

Last and most important point. Brain Kelly killed a kid.

Agree with your final point.

Also Saban was a coward that couldn't hack it in the NFL.

 

[CuseMan4]

Not a UM fan at all. But great hire by them. He’s been a great coach at Utah for over 10 years. Utah is probably never gonna win a championship but he had them in the top 20 consistently. He’s known for being a great dude, morally right and staying out of trouble. Literally everything Michigan needs right now.

And he’ll have way more resources at UM. He’ll kill it there. 5 year contract. He’ll be 71 when that ends. Take the big pay day, get UM on track. Don’t blame him. He’s a likeable guy. Good for him

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Not a UM fan at all. But great hire by them. He’s been a great coach at Utah for over 10 years. Utah is probably never gonna win a championship but he had them in the top 20 consistently. He’s known for being a great dude, morally right and staying out of trouble. Literally everything Michigan needs right now.

And he’ll have way more resources at UM. He’ll kill it there. 5 year contract. He’ll be 71 when that ends. Take the big pay day, get UM on track. Don’t blame him. He’s a likeable guy. Good for him

20 years, actually.

 

[CA Monk]

Agree with your final point.

Also Saban was a coward that couldn't hack it in the NFL.

Always enjoy your cogent posts so I'm wondering why the harsh language in calling Saban a coward. He always seemed like a stand up guy. Lots of College to NFL guys flame out. What am I missing?
Success-wise he's the gold standard.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Always enjoy your cogent posts so I'm wondering why the harsh language in calling Saban a coward. He always seemed like a stand up guy. Lots of College to NFL guys flame out. What am I missing?
Success-wise he's the gold standard.

Thank you, although I take pride in both my cogent posts and my posts that are not cogent.

Don't be fooled, Saban is all ego and is about manipulating the rules in his favor.

His ego couldn't handle that in the NFL the QB matters the most, and matters more than the coach, so rather than prove his greatness he went back to the college level where he knew he could shape circumstances to his favor. For an individual that had nothing more to prove at the college level and had an opportunity to cement himself as the greatest football coach ever, he turned coward and ran.

He absolutely was successful at the college level. But his success wasn't due to coaching innovation. He figured out how to recruit better than most, and was able to build a brand of Alabama and SEC superiority that he unjustly benefited from. The rules were different, and the college game still suffers from that today. Alabama could be excused a loss when nobody else was given that privilege.

The most criminal instance of this was back in 2012, in the BCS era, when LSU beat Alabama at Bama's home field in the regular season, knocking them out of the SEC conference championship game. But they were given more respect than LSU, the consensus number one, that beat them at home and also played and won the SEC conference championship game, by being given a rematch shot they never deserved. Why was it the right call for it to be more important to give Alabama another chance than it was to not respect that LSU had already proven they could beat a contender ON THE ROAD?

Saban also fought against actual coaching innovation and engaged in bogus endeavors to change the rules when hurry up offenses proved to be successful at giving offenses a chance to overcome talented defenses. This continued his pattern of trying to cut off advantages created by his opponents.

And, yes, he was getting up in years, but he bolted from the college game right as things were getting real with the NIL/portal era. It follows a pattern - when the playing field starts to look even a little more equal, Saban gets out of there.

So, yes, incredible track record, won an absurd amount of games and championships. But one of Saban's talents, and arguably his most considerable one, was getting himself into situations where he could succeed. He ran away from everything else.

In conclusion, I'll see Nick Saban in Hell.

 

[CA Monk]

Thank you, although I take pride in both my cogent posts and my posts that are not cogent.

Don't be fooled, Saban is all ego and is about manipulating the rules in his favor.

His ego couldn't handle that in the NFL the QB matters the most, and matters more than the coach, so rather than prove his greatness he went back to the college level where he knew he could shape circumstances to his favor. For an individual that had nothing more to prove at the college level and had an opportunity to cement himself as the greatest football coach ever, he turned coward and ran.

He absolutely was successful at the college level. But his success wasn't due to coaching innovation. He figured out how to recruit better than most, and was able to build a brand of Alabama and SEC superiority that he unjustly benefited from. The rules were different, and the college game still suffers from that today. Alabama could be excused a loss when nobody else was given that privilege.

The most criminal instance of this was back in 2012, in the BCS era, when LSU beat Alabama at Bama's home field in the regular season, knocking them out of the SEC conference championship game. But they were given more respect than LSU, the consensus number one, that beat them at home and also played and won the SEC conference championship game, by being given a rematch shot they never deserved. Why was it the right call for it to be more important to give Alabama another chance than it was to not respect that LSU had already proven they could beat a contender ON THE ROAD?

Saban also fought against actual coaching innovation and engaged in bogus endeavors to change the rules when hurry up offenses proved to be successful at giving offenses a chance to overcome talented defenses. This continued his pattern of trying to cut off advantages created by his opponents.

And, yes, he was getting up in years, but he bolted from the college game right as things were getting real with the NIL/portal era. It follows a pattern - when the playing field starts to look even a little more equal, Saban gets out of there.

So, yes, incredible track record, won an absurd amount of games and championships. But one of Saban's talents, and arguably his most considerable one, was getting himself into situations where he could succeed. He ran away from everything else.

In conclusion, I'll see Nick Saban in Hell.

Once again, I appreciate your perspective OinG.

 

[Toga]

Thank you, although I take pride in both my cogent posts and my posts that are not cogent.

Don't be fooled, Saban is all ego and is about manipulating the rules in his favor.

His ego couldn't handle that in the NFL the QB matters the most, and matters more than the coach, so rather than prove his greatness he went back to the college level where he knew he could shape circumstances to his favor. For an individual that had nothing more to prove at the college level and had an opportunity to cement himself as the greatest football coach ever, he turned coward and ran.

He absolutely was successful at the college level. But his success wasn't due to coaching innovation. He figured out how to recruit better than most, and was able to build a brand of Alabama and SEC superiority that he unjustly benefited from. The rules were different, and the college game still suffers from that today. Alabama could be excused a loss when nobody else was given that privilege.

The most criminal instance of this was back in 2012, in the BCS era, when LSU beat Alabama at Bama's home field in the regular season, knocking them out of the SEC conference championship game. But they were given more respect than LSU, the consensus number one, that beat them at home and also played and won the SEC conference championship game, by being given a rematch shot they never deserved. Why was it the right call for it to be more important to give Alabama another chance than it was to not respect that LSU had already proven they could beat a contender ON THE ROAD?

Saban also fought against actual coaching innovation and engaged in bogus endeavors to change the rules when hurry up offenses proved to be successful at giving offenses a chance to overcome talented defenses. This continued his pattern of trying to cut off advantages created by his opponents.

And, yes, he was getting up in years, but he bolted from the college game right as things were getting real with the NIL/portal era. It follows a pattern - when the playing field starts to look even a little more equal, Saban gets out of there.

So, yes, incredible track record, won an absurd amount of games and championships. But one of Saban's talents, and arguably his most considerable one, was getting himself into situations where he could succeed. He ran away from everything else.

In conclusion, I'll see Nick Saban in Hell.

 

[kcsu]

First, they are handing him the keys bc the football program has to be cleaned up tip to tail. You have to bring in instant integrity as a priority.

Second, he has to basically be an acting AD.

Third, he’s an awesome HC. UM can recruit itself. He’s going to get talent. He’s going to win.

Fourth, the guys you mentioned are all over the map. 2019 LSU could have had a fan of the week coaching them and won a chip vs what a Saban did. You cannot compare Orgeron and Miles with the greatest cfb HC of all time.

This is a home run hire for UM.

Fifth if you have taken care of yourself and stay active physically and mentally 66 isn't old at all.

 

[MikeSU02]

Fifth if you have taken care of yourself and stay active physically and mentally 66 isn't old at all.

Agreed. 100%

 

[orange79]

Always enjoy your cogent posts so I'm wondering why the harsh language in calling Saban a coward. He always seemed like a stand up guy. Lots of College to NFL guys flame out. What am I missing?
Success-wise he's the gold standard.

Once again, I appreciate your perspective OinG.

OMG, he's going to be insufferable now...

 

[orange79]

Yeah you're right and Saban is the outlier of all outliers. Using the greatest coach in the history of the sport as the baseline for what a 66 year old can do is exactly why this hire makes no long term sense. If Michigan thinks they just hired the next Saban then good luck.

Why would you assume that Michigan thinks they hired the next Saban?

They needed someone with a sterling reputation to help clean up the mess that Moore and Warde made.

I am sure they do not think they are hiring the next Saban.

 

[PAcuse]

OMG, he's going to be insufferable now...

Now????

 

[orange79]

Now????