Shrader doesn't throw well enough to beat very good teams

[Cuse181]

That TD throw he had to Allen, with Allen catching it over his shoulder in stride was an absolute piece of art. A delicacy really.

Shrader has a great arm and great touch, he was just off a bit today at times. Being rushed, sacked and abused all game long probably contributed.

I’m not sure 1 good throw = having a great arm and great touch. He threw more duds than good balls. He’s good, and good gets you 67% completion versus army, western Michigan, Connecticut, ect but that’s about it. Great arms get you those stats against mid to high tier teams. I don’t think Syracuse has had a QB with a great arm since Nassib

 

[PhatOrange]

When the WRs keep dropping easy passes on their hands why complain about the QB?

These weren’t contested catches today either and most drops were gumballs when no one was close to them.

If Shrader gets dinged up and we keep him in when his arms falling off or he can’t walk like we’ve done in the past sure get on him but we have to go in the the road to undefeated top teams next 2 weeks we’re lucky we have a dual threat that can move the chains when there is nothing there by himself.

We also don’t have the line to spread them out and throw a lot.

I remember 3 drops. Brown across the middle on a pass that was thrown way behind him.

Brown from Vallari. Also, not a good pass but a pass he has to catch 100% of the time.

Alford on an uncontested gumball that hit him square in the hands. Much like the TD pass he dropped a few weeks ago.

I don’t recall any other dropped passes.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

This board is spoiled by McNabb…borderline hall of fame QB. We are lucky to have him.

Shrader is a very good collegiate player that isn’t a NFL prospect. He isn’t going to carry a team by himself. Very few players at this level are. In fact, I’m not Caleb Williams could have beaten Clemson today.

I think the frustration is brewing because Clemson wasn’t really the better team. Our turnovers and penalties were a bigger story than GS today.

Shrader's skill set is a huge weapon against 3/4 of our schedule. But it is completely ineffective against the other 1/4. On top of that he is very loose with the ball in those games.

I have a feeling that next year we will all wish he had another year. He masks a lot of issues elsewhere.

 

[Cusefan69]

but GS had a couple of those turnovers, no?

Nobody was going to hold onto the football on that first hit. I mean he was marching the team down the field and got drilled. I am not going to fault him on that one. Everyone in the dome was cheering on that play and drive until he got crushed. It’s really amazing in a bad way how just a sequence of a couple plays just changed things. We are moving the ball and GS gets blown up and fumble. Clemson on 3rd down gets the effin pass interference call. LA cant reel in pitch and its on the turf. The punt interference call which honestly I didn’t understand because I didn’t see any fair catch signal. Just a few plays, calls and tone of game completely changes. Didn’t mean to digress here JK. Back to your point yeah he had a couple but that first one….no one was going to hold the ball that hit was so hard.

 

[bigmike]

The formula for winning this game was probably getting a couple offensive TDs, a defensive TD or at least a very short field TD off a turnover, committing no disastrous turnovers of our own, and pulling out a 21-17 type game.

It wasn’t really that far off from happening. Cut out that pitch fumble which was 100% an unforced error, and either Wax catches the ball and runs it in for a pick 6 or our fumble return doesn’t get blown dead and counts, and don’t attempt a 57 yard FG(and perhaps keep mixing in running plays before that and we might’ve been able to chew up some yards and clock) and we probably win.

We got 2 passing TDs from Shrader. Could’ve been enough if those few plays went our way.

Yes, yes, yes.

 

[bigmike]

In the presser GS seemed to indicate he’s not fond of sliding because he’s taking some shots when he does. I wonder if he may start to run in a more “reckless”fashion moving forward. Not sure how I would feel about that, but I tend to agree he has taken some head shots on the slide.

 

[Cusefan95]

So... if he actually was concussed, we need him to be smart enough to pull himself out.

Full stop.

One of the issues with that is after a concussion, you aren’t thinking clearly. It’s really easy to go on autopilot, go back to your position and keep playing unless someone from the sideline pulls you. Expecting a player to be “smart enough” to pull himself from a game is an unfair expectation - even if in normal circumstances he would have been smart enough, he may not be thinking that “smart” right after a concussion. (A non-football example was Tyson after Douglas knocked him out. He put his mouth guard in backwards, couldn’t stand up straight - and was angry the ref stopped the fight because he thought he was good to go). Schools, teams, and the NCAA need to take greater accountability with this - we cannot expect the player to know he needs to come out. That sometimes he will doesn’t mean that’s always the case.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

One of the issues with that is after a concussion, you aren’t thinking clearly. It’s really easy to go on autopilot, go back to your position and keep playing unless someone from the sideline pulls you. Expecting a player to be “smart enough” to pull himself from a game is an unfair expectation - even if in normal circumstances he would have been smart enough, he may not be thinking that “smart” right after a concussion. (A non-football example was Tyson after Douglas knocked him out. He put his mouth guard in backwards, couldn’t stand up straight - and was angry the ref stopped the fight because he thought he was good to go). Schools, teams, and the NCAA need to take greater accountability with this - we cannot expect the player to know he needs to come out. That sometimes he will doesn’t mean that’s always the case.

This makes sense to me.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

Yep of course but The kids tough as nails, say’s nothing, it’s frankly hard to tell when someone is mildly concussed, so goes through the motions (thus the flat performance).

There’s Too much going on to notice in game, then Post game when they get a longer look, something’s Off. Nobody will say anything then we’ll see he won’t play against unc (likely). Heard this post game.

so you can tell watching at home but nobody can tell at the game. not even trained professionals? Doubt it. You don't see what you don't wanna see. They didnt want him to have a concussion so they ignored it since it was not blatant. Meathead football culture will never get it. Scrambled egg brains in your 50's apparently not enough of a deterrent.

 

[anomander]

but GS had a couple of those turnovers, no?

I think you could blame LeQuint just as much as Shrader on that toss. Sure it was perfect, but it his his hands. These are the games where you really miss guys like OG and Wohlabaugh who can either match or come close to matching the talent. Shearer also did not have any time to throw the ball. Poor Petry was being used as a turn style. I don't understand how we weren't shipping his guy or giving some help. I also think GS was dinged up. You can take a big hit and not really be actually concussed but it can linger the length of the game.. i don't know if it was because they were playing mostly zone but we hardly saw any over the middle passing. Everything was up the sidelines but it looked like those guys haven't practiced those throws hundreds of times with almost everyone being unwatchable except the one where Moose looked to make an amazing catch.

Bottom line you can't have your best players on both sides of the ball not show up. We had guys like LeQuint and Vilari play great, as well as Caleb, Ingrham, and Cinco on defense. Also, thought Bellamy, Gould, and Farmer step up, as well as Stonehouse. Otherwise it was same as usual from a discipline standpoint.

I'm really disappointed that we loat, but specifically in the way that we lost. Tons of improvements to go around but we’ve been making the same costly mistakes for 8 years

 

[cuseincincy]

Nobody was going to hold onto the football on that first hit. I mean he was marching the team down the field and got drilled. I am not going to fault him on that one. Everyone in the dome was cheering on that play and drive until he got crushed. It’s really amazing in a bad way how just a sequence of a couple plays just changed things. We are moving the ball and GS gets blown up and fumble. Clemson on 3rd down gets the effin pass interference call. LA cant reel in pitch and its on the turf. The punt interference call which honestly I didn’t understand because I didn’t see any fair catch signal. Just a few plays, calls and tone of game completely changes. Didn’t mean to digress here JK. Back to your point yeah he had a couple but that first one….no one was going to hold the ball that hit was so hard.

Most QBs aren't doing a 360 spin move 20 yards down field. That's what caused the hit. If he lowers the shoulder to go through the guy for an extra yard or 2 instead there's likely no fumble. It looked bad because of the position Shrader put himself in. Unfortunately we need him doing those things to win most games.
His deep passes were off on the sideline go patterns. I don't care what kind of window he's throwing to, passes out of bounds are useless.
Villari made 2 nice plays then never saw the ball again except to throw it. He looks like he is ready to contribute more and should have been targeted a few more times. It's like he disappeared after Brown dropped that pass.

 

[Millhouse]

Are we really blaming the QB here?

Saying he's not good enough for us to beat really good teams is not the same as saying he's to blame for losing to really good teams

At least with devito we only had to deal with one goofy dad insisting that the QB should never get pressured, with shrader, half the board has adopted a thirty year old

 

[Millhouse]

This board is spoiled by McNabb…borderline hall of fame QB. We are lucky to have him.

Shrader is a very good collegiate player that isn’t a NFL prospect. He isn’t going to carry a team by himself. Very few players at this level are. In fact, I’m not Caleb Williams could have beaten Clemson today.

I think the frustration is brewing because Clemson wasn’t really the better team. Our turnovers and penalties were a bigger story than GS today.

I'm not frustrated at all. I said I would quickly forget about this game and gave him credit for the good things he can do against teams where his skills will matter more

Two of the turnovers him spinning into a vicious tackle and a horrible throw where I can't understand how he didn't see the Clemson player he threw it to, guy was standing there the whole time. The bad pitch was mostly his fault

 

[Millhouse]

That he does not have great arm talent has always been true. Today Clemson’s Dline dominated and took away what they are good at.

They can beat very good teams, they are going to have their biggest problem with teams that can physically dominate the line.

i thought the only way they would win was a 17-13 kind of game.

Very good teams rarely lose of course but it's even more rare that they lose 17-13 and when they do, it was a factory that did it

 

[Millhouse]

I think you could blame LeQuint just as much as Shrader on that toss. Sure it was perfect, but it his his hands. These are the games where you really miss guys like OG and Wohlabaugh who can either match or come close to matching the talent. Shearer also did not have any time to throw the ball. Poor Petry was being used as a turn style. I don't understand how we weren't shipping his guy or giving some help. I also think GS was dinged up. You can take a big hit and not really be actually concussed but it can linger the length of the game.. i don't know if it was because they were playing mostly zone but we hardly saw any over the middle passing. Everything was up the sidelines but it looked like those guys haven't practiced those throws hundreds of times with almost everyone being unwatchable except the one where Moose looked to make an amazing catch.

Bottom line you can't have your best players on both sides of the ball not show up. We had guys like LeQuint and Vilari play great, as well as Caleb, Ingrham, and Cinco on defense. Also, thought Bellamy, Gould, and Farmer step up, as well as Stonehouse. Otherwise it was same as usual from a discipline standpoint.

I'm really disappointed that we loat, but specifically in the way that we lost. Tons of improvements to go around but we’ve been making the same costly mistakes for 8 years

It was a bad pitch

 

[Millhouse]

so you can tell watching at home but nobody can tell at the game. not even trained professionals? Doubt it. You don't see what you don't wanna see. They didnt want him to have a concussion so they ignored it since it was not blatant. Meathead football culture will never get it. Scrambled egg brains in your 50's apparently not enough of a deterrent.

He got right up, I assume he got evaluated

Should we just assume concussion based on him not being successful against Clemson after that?

Seems a little ugly to just assume that they were reckless based on nothing

 

[Millhouse]

In the presser GS seemed to indicate he’s not fond of sliding because he’s taking some shots when he does. I wonder if he may start to run in a more “reckless”fashion moving forward. Not sure how I would feel about that, but I tend to agree he has taken some head shots on the slide.

Sliding often results in a double whammy where you slide into a guy going low and then hit your head on the ground. Kevin Kolb for the bills comes to mind. Career ended

I don't think sliding is all it's cracked up to be unless you really give yourself up early with no one around

 

[RICuse44]

Shrader is who he is. Good at running. Really good at play action under center with bootlegs. Not good in an air raid situation. Would like to see him getting a little more under center and running the ball w LA to set up bootlegs and play action passes going forward.

 

[money3189]

It was a bad pitch

What? It was right between his eyes and in stride. A bad pitch is at his feet or 3 feet above his head. No reason for him to drop that ball. Its a routine QB/RB exchange

 

[Goin' Deep]

Yeah, that "sliding thing" is an art and difficult to do when you're 6'4" and 225 lbs.
But we're seeing the same things from Shrader that we have seen the previous 2 seasons...
stares down receivers
throws the ball 2 yards out of bounds
misses open receivers while throwing into coverage.
You would think Anae and Beck would have schooled him in these areas and
we'd see some improvement...but hasn't happened.

But OUR line play (OL and DL) vs Clemson's were miles from each other...depressing.

 

[SmilinBob]

Well don't worry, soon SU won't have to play Clemson, FSU or UNC anymore.

 

[richmondcuse03]

So ppl are saying he got mildly concussed on that first drive hit that caused the fumble?

so you can tell watching at home but nobody can tell at the game. not even trained professionals? Doubt it. You don't see what you don't wanna see. They didnt want him to have a concussion so they ignored it since it was not blatant. Meathead football culture will never get it. Scrambled egg brains in your 50's apparently not enough of a deterrent.

I’m not sure that’s the case here. Syracuse tends to be very careful when it comes to these things. I don’t think they would purposefully ignore it.

 

[OrangeDW]

In the presser GS seemed to indicate he’s not fond of sliding because he’s taking some shots when he does. I wonder if he may start to run in a more “reckless”fashion moving forward. Not sure how I would feel about that, but I tend to agree he has taken some head shots on the slide.

Maybe they should get rid of the slide since you’re a sitting duck and even more defenseless and change it to some type of signal that you’re down and giving yourself up. Like a fair catch type signal with your free arm, or something.

 

[OrangeDW]

Yeah, that "sliding thing" is an art and difficult to do when you're 6'4" and 225 lbs.
But we're seeing the same things from Shrader that we have seen the previous 2 seasons...
stares down receivers
throws the ball 2 yards out of bounds
misses open receivers while throwing into coverage.
You would think Anae and Beck would have schooled him in these areas and
we'd see some improvement...but hasn't happened.

But OUR line play (OL and DL) vs Clemson's were miles from each other...depressing.

Not fair to say it’s all on the coaches that he hasn’t become flawless. He’s improved. I’m sure he works hard and I’m sure they’ve helped him.

If it was as simple as “work hard on it with the coaches”, then pretty much everybody would become Joe Montana.

There’s a natural talent element to it too.

 

[SmilinBob]

Maybe they should get rid of the slide since you’re a sitting duck and even more defenseless and change it to some type of signal that you’re down and giving yourself up. Like a fair catch type signal with your free arm, or something.

I'd but a flair gun in their belt, Shoot it up in the air when you're giving yourself up!