Sidebar - Clemson

[BrooklynCuse]

It’s great that Clemson beats Alabama but they have some dirty players. Our long snapper last year got taken out on dirty play and who was that LB they had? The one that suplexed one of our players(Strickland?) a few years ago?

 

[Cuse1985]

I heard enough about Kiffens’ mother to last a lifetime.

7 years ago! Damn we are getting old.

hahahahaha, pretty sure I was just as hard on Matt Barkley, smh what a mess

 

[nzm136]

He's a creep, Clemson sucks, and this site's obsession with that school is almost as bizarre as its obsession with Rutgers. I'm willing to overlook the Clemson obsession because at least they're good at football, but it's still weird.
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It's the same "obsession" that fans and coaches of this program have had with Penn St. and Miami in the past.

Nothing bizarre about it at all.
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Penn State is relevant, unlike Rutgers, and they’re one of our most played opponents (71 games), unlike Clemson. They’re also 4 hours away (driving on Pennsyltucky highways) from the Dome, meaning our fan bases touch each other and the schools recruit athletes and students against each other. Clemson, on the other hand, is about a 4 hour plane ride, and Rutgers doesn’t have fans in appreciable numbers in any sport.

The two situations aren’t even remotely similar.

**Speaking to Miami because I left that out of my reply... everyone had an obsession with Miami back in the day. They were like Saban’s Alabama teams, only with game-changing attitude. Neither Clemson nor Rutgers accurately approximates that kind of environment.

 

[NJCuse97]

He's a creep, Clemson sucks, and this site's obsession with that school is almost as bizarre as its obsession with Rutgers. I'm willing to overlook the Clemson obsession because at least they're good at football, but it's still weird.

It's the same "obsession" that fans and coaches of this program have had with Penn St. and Miami in the past.

Nothing bizarre about it at all.
[/QUOTE]
Penn State is relevant, unlike Rutgers, and they’re one of our most played opponents (71 games), unlike Clemson. They’re also 4 hours away (driving on Pennsyltucky highways) from the Dome, meaning our fan bases touch each other and the schools recruit athletes and students against each other. Clemson, on the other hand, is about a 4 hour plane ride, and Rutgers doesn’t have fans in appreciable numbers in any sport.

The two situations aren’t even remotely similar.

**Speaking to Miami because I left that out of my reply... everyone had an obsession with Miami back in the day. They were like Saban’s Alabama teams, only with game-changing attitude. Neither Clemson nor Rutgers accurately approximates that kind of environment.
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Don’t agree with a lot of this

 

[Oakland]

That dude would have fared well if I had been emperor of the world back then. Isn't he also one of the two guys that crushed Dungey when Eric refused to slide running straight up the middle? One of Eric's dumber plays.

It’s great that Clemson beats Alabama but they have some dirty players. Our long snapper last year got taken out on dirty play and who was that LB they had? The one that suplexed one of our players(Strickland?) a few years ago?

 

[nzm136]

It's the same "obsession" that fans and coaches of this program have had with Penn St. and Miami in the past.

Nothing bizarre about it at all.

Penn State is relevant, unlike Rutgers, and they’re one of our most played opponents (71 games), unlike Clemson. They’re also 4 hours away (driving on Pennsyltucky highways) from the Dome, meaning our fan bases touch each other and the schools recruit athletes and students against each other. Clemson, on the other hand, is about a 4 hour plane ride, and Rutgers doesn’t have fans in appreciable numbers in any sport.

The two situations aren’t even remotely similar.

**Speaking to Miami because I left that out of my reply... everyone had an obsession with Miami back in the day. They were like Saban’s Alabama teams, only with game-changing attitude. Neither Clemson nor Rutgers accurately approximates that kind of environment.
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Don’t agree with a lot of this
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What parts? My assessment of geography is pretty objective. The fact that we’ve played PSU 71 times vs ~5-7 for Clemson is pretty cut and dry, too. The same goes for our overlap in recruiting with the cult. You could probably argue that there is dispersion in football and basketball, but, in my opinion, that’s due more to relative strengths of programs than anything else (and it’s not like we’re competing w/ Clemson for recruits in either football or basketball in any appreciable numbers). But I can’t imagine you arguing against my contention when it comes to academic recruiting.

I guess my assessment of Rutgers’ fan base hinges on what you call “appreciable,” but I think most people would agree that their fan support leaves a lot to be desired. This example is anacdotyl, but I remember a RU b-ball game against some (other) scrub team (NJIT?) with an attendance of something like 183. The game was over Christmas break, but I’m not sure that level of fan support beats out high school games. If you assume that there were 20 players, and the average player has a sibling, 2 parents, and a friend, then almost half of the attendance in the building would have been friends and family of the players. Add the coaches spouses and kids, and then add in the dance tream’s boyfriends and family, and that’s basically who showed up. [EDIT: I may be thinking of the back-to-back 392 and 466 games in the 2013-2014 season...one of which they hilariously lost. Granted, I know that’s basketball, but I have a very hard time believing that the Rutgers football team who got their doors blown out 55-14 by a 3-9 KU team last year is materially better positioned. Feel free to argue to the contrary if you really disagree.]

I’m also not sure how you could argue that the ‘Canes of ‘81-‘01 weren’t analogous to Alabama now. I want to say that Miami won 5 NC’s in ~20 years, and I think they played for something like 7. What’s Alabama, 5/8 in the last ~15? Also, it’s a fact that Miami’s attitude changed the rules of college ball. Off the top of my head, sportsmanship rules and uniform rules were both enacted directly in response to Miami behavior. And frankly, I can only begin to imagine how many rules are on the books that I don’t know about because of Miami. To the best of my knowledge neither Clemson nor Rutgers (lol) carries that kind of weight in terms of lasting success or game-changing behavior.

 

[NJCuse97]

What parts? My assessment of geography is pretty objective. The fact that we’ve played PSU 71 times vs ~5-7 for Clemson is pretty cut and dry, too. The same goes for our overlap in recruiting with the cult. You could probably argue that there is dispersion in football and basketball, but, in my opinion, that’s due more to relative strengths of programs than anything else (and it’s not like we’re competing w/ Clemson for recruits in either football or basketball in any appreciable numbers). But I can’t imagine you arguing against my contention when it comes to academic recruiting.

I guess my assessment of Rutgers’ fan base hinges on what you call “appreciable,” but I think most people would agree that their fan support leaves a lot to be desired. This example is anacdotyl, but I remember a RU b-ball game against some (other) scrub team (NJIT?) with an attendance of something like 183. The game was over Christmas break, but I’m not sure that level of fan support beats out high school games. If you assume that there were 20 players, and the average player has a sibling, 2 parents, and a friend, then almost half of the attendance in the building would have been friends and family of the players. Add the coaches spouses and kids, and then add in the dance tream’s boyfriends and family, and that’s basically who showed up. [EDIT: I may be thinking of the back-to-back 392 and 466 games in the 2013-2014 season...one of which they hilariously lost. Granted, I know that’s basketball, but I have a very hard time believing that the Rutgers football team who got their doors blown out 55-14 by a 3-9 KU team last year is materially better positioned. Feel free to argue to the contrary if you really disagree.]

I’m also not sure how you could argue that the ‘Canes of ‘81-‘01 weren’t analogous to Alabama now. I want to say that Miami won 5 NC’s in ~20 years, and I think they played for something like 7. What’s Alabama, 5/8 in the last ~15? Also, it’s a fact that Miami’s attitude changed the rules of college ball. Off the top of my head, sportsmanship rules and uniform rules were both enacted directly in response to Miami behavior. And frankly, I can only begin to imagine how many rules are on the books that I don’t know about because of Miami. To the best of my knowledge neither Clemson nor Rutgers (lol) carries that kind of weight in terms of lasting success or game-changing behavior.

Keeping this as simple and short as I can, Clemson is our current Miami. We haven’t played them a lot, and they have won 2 of the last 3 Championships. They are in our league, even our conference and we play them home/away every year. We do try to recruit the same athletes, but we just aren’t as successful. The reason for us giving them respect and attention is right there. Apart from a string of success that you describe, the history of both programs and their on field persona couldn’t be more different. Clemson is the slicker, flashy team of the two, and they are coming into their own period of winning. Remember that there was a good gap between Miami’s first and second championship.

As for PSU, that is all well in the past, and while we used to play them every year, that stopped in 1990? We’ve played them what, 3-4 times since then? We’ve played BC almost as much, they are comparable in geographic proximity, we play them every year, compete for recruits, and yet don’t see them on the same level as PSU. Why? I believe because of success. PSU always beat us. On the field too often, in recruiting even more. We are to PSU what BC is to us right down to coach P being a PSU grad like Coughlin coaching BC. We hate PSU because we envy their success (and now because of moral reasons too).

This leads to Rutgers. NJ is our recruiting bed. We get some from the south, but historically our program was built on local recruits. NJ is one of the best places in a four hour radius for us to get recruits that can compete with the likes of Clemson (or Miami if you want). Rutgers never posed a threat to that really until Schiano came to RU from... Miami. Even worse, he also coached at PSU! He came in as a N.J. guy and said that his aim was to take us down specifically. He brought a mediocrity to Rutgers that enabled him to shut us out of NJ recruiting. He woke up a group of fans that came out and cheered loudly for them, for about ten years. We want our turf back. We feel the need to put them so far down that they cannot come back. Their B1G move represents a new challenge to that. Mostly because it breathes life (the sustaining kind, not the excelling kind) into them and also invites more competition for those recruits in the form of OSU, Michigan, Wisconsin, etc. It doesn’t hurt PSU either.

 

[nzm136]

Keeping this as simple and short as I can, Clemson is our current Miami. We haven’t played them a lot, and they have won 2 of the last 3 Championships. They are in our league, even our conference and we play them home/away every year. We do try to recruit the same athletes, but we just aren’t as successful. The reason for us giving them respect and attention is right there. Apart from a string of success that you describe, the history of both programs and their on field persona couldn’t be more different. Clemson is the slicker, flashy team of the two, and they are coming into their own period of winning. Remember that there was a good gap between Miami’s first and second championship.

As for PSU, that is all well in the past, and while we used to play them every year, that stopped in 1990? We’ve played them what, 3-4 times since then? We’ve played BC almost as much, they are comparable in geographic proximity, we play them every year, compete for recruits, and yet don’t see them on the same level as PSU. Why? I believe because of success. PSU always beat us. On the field too often, in recruiting even more. We are to PSU what BC is to us right down to coach P being a PSU grad like Coughlin coaching BC. We hate PSU because we envy their success (and now because of moral reasons too).

This leads to Rutgers. NJ is our recruiting bed. We get some from the south, but historically our program was built on local recruits. NJ is one of the best places in a four hour radius for us to get recruits that can compete with the likes of Clemson (or Miami if you want). Rutgers never posed a threat to that really until Schiano came to RU from... Miami. Even worse, he also coached at PSU! He came in as a N.J. guy and said that his aim was to take us down specifically. He brought a mediocrity to Rutgers that enabled him to shut us out of NJ recruiting. He woke up a group of fans that came out and cheered loudly for them, for about ten years. We want our turf back. We feel the need to put them so far down that they cannot come back. Their B1G move represents a new challenge to that. Mostly because it breathes life (the sustaining kind, not the excelling kind) into them and also invites more competition for those recruits in the form of OSU, Michigan, Wisconsin, etc. It doesn’t hurt PSU either.

I don’t think that this is material, but Miami won in ‘83 and ‘87. We can argue about semantics, but 4 years is a pretty good clip in my book. I want to say they lost to PSU in ‘85, too. Either way, I’m not sure that you could point to anything at Clemson that differentiates them from USC —> UF —> tOSU during their runs. Miami, however, has 2(!) 30 for 30’s about them. I know that the 30 for 30 metric is somewhat subjective. But I do think it’s indicitive. Miami was *the* team, and moreso than any other team before or after their golden era, they were polarizing. Clemson isn’t even *the* team now, and they’re at their zenith.

As for PSU, I’ll agree that it’s a bigger game than BC. They’re a bigger team, they’re closer, and we’ve played them 20 times more (despite only playing PSU occasionally since they joined the collective). However, calling PSU anything other than a historic rival is erroneous. Like with the BC game, there are reasons to care beyond how good they are or aren’t. But BC isn’t Rutgers, and they aren’t Clemson. I’m not sure I see the relevance.

Lastly, trying to build Rutgers-Syracuse into a rivalry based on tenuous relationships of a coach who last coached at Rutgers is trying far, far too hard. The same goes with your “defend NJ” argument. The same argument could be made for Princeton, Temple, and a bunch of other irrelevant schools in the area. RU doesn’t have the relevance to matter, and the Big Ten hasn’t changed that. I’m not sure how you define “breathe life into a program,” but they lost to a bad 3-9 KU team last year, and their attendance has consisted of whatever the other team brings. The same isn’t true for Miami during the day, and it isn’t true of PSU.

***Also, saying we try to recruit the same athletes as Clemson is only true in the sense that we also try to recruit the same athletes as Texas, LSU, Alabama, tOSU, USC, Georgia, Florida, FSU, and Notre Dame. There’s no real competition between the schools for students, and aside from every school in the country wanting the same 5* kids, athletes.

 

[NJCuse97]

I don’t think that this is material, but Miami won in ‘83 and ‘87. We can argue about semantics, but 4 years is a pretty good clip in my book. I want to say they lost to PSU in ‘85, too. Either way, I’m not sure that you could point to anything at Clemson that differentiates them from USC —> UF —> tOSU during their runs. Miami, however, has 2(!) 30 for 30’s about them. I know that the 30 for 30 metric is somewhat subjective. But I do think it’s indicitive. Miami was *the* team, and moreso than any other team before or after their golden era, they were polarizing. Clemson isn’t even *the* team now, and they’re at their zenith.

As for PSU, I’ll agree that it’s a bigger game than BC. They’re a bigger team, they’re closer, and we’ve played them 20 times more (despite only playing PSU occasionally since they joined the collective). However, calling PSU anything other than a historic rival is erroneous. Like with the BC game, there are reasons to care beyond how good they are or aren’t. But BC isn’t Rutgers, and they aren’t Clemson. I’m not sure I see the relevance.

Lastly, trying to build Rutgers-Syracuse into a rivalry based on tenuous relationships of a coach who last coached at Rutgers is trying far, far too hard. The same goes with your “defend NJ” argument. The same argument could be made for Princeton, Temple, and a bunch of other irrelevant schools in the area. RU doesn’t have the relevance to matter, and the Big Ten hasn’t changed that. I’m not sure how you define “breathe life into a program,” but they lost to a bad 3-9 KU team last year, and their attendance has consisted of whatever the other team brings. The same isn’t true for Miami during the day, and it isn’t true of PSU.

***Also, saying we try to recruit the same athletes as Clemson is only true in the sense that we also try to recruit the same athletes as Texas, LSU, Alabama, tOSU, USC, Georgia, Florida, FSU, and Notre Dame. There’s no real competition between the schools for students, and aside from every school in the country wanting the same 5* kids, athletes.

There’s a lot to unpack and I’m starting to lose your point, so I am going to try and restate my interpretation along with my perspective.

Miami has 5 chips. Clemson has 3. Bama has 17. I say Bama is nothing like Miami historically or personality wise. I say Clemson is on the verge of being this generation’s Miami, and our fan base should see it that way, as they are in our division and we play them every year, like Miami from 1992-2003. You make an argument that Miami was polarizing making them great, justified be their 30 for 30 frequency. I say that is representative of a meteoric rise and fall, more like Clemson than Bama. You point to the fact that Miami was hated. I say Clemson is equally hated evidenced by your own anger at the respect our fans give them.

You say we should still hate PSU most because of proximity and the amount of times we’ve played them. I say it was a bite of a one sided “rivalry” as they have twice the wins we do in the series. We have not played PSU regularly for about 30 years. We are as tied to the geographically as we are Rutgers, UCONN, Cornell, Colgate, Holy Cross. We’ve played every one of them more than 35 times and we will play Colgate and Holy Cross in the next two years. For the record we’ve played Pitt the most and continue to play them every year too. I made the BC comparison only because we as a fan base view them as PSU views us. You seem to only want rivalries with teams that own us. We have something like a ,350 win percentage against teams like Miami and PSU. Outside of our desire to be competitive with PSU and equalize recruiting, primarily in N.J., we have very little connection to them, especially in the last 30 years. Apart from their own stature, they may as well be Holy Cross or Army to us, a team we used to play a lot and apparently will again every so often. Even I don’t really believe that, but that is the current reality.

This leads me to Rutgers. I agree that our hatred of them boarders on irrational, and their recent performance makes it seem more so. I only justify it by saying some of that hatred is because they, and Schiano in particular, did the most damage to our recruiting dominance in NJ and continue to do that by bringing in all the B1G teams annually. As for breathing life into them, I said I wasn’t talking about success, just survival. Without the B1G invite, they are UConn which is all any of us want.

 

[nzm136]

There’s a lot to unpack and I’m starting to lose your point, so I am going to try and restate my interpretation along with my perspective.

Miami has 5 chips. Clemson has 3. Bama has 17. I say Bama is nothing like Miami historically or personality wise. I say Clemson is on the verge of being this generation’s Miami, and our fan base should see it that way, as they are in our division and we play them every year, like Miami from 1992-2003. You make an argument that Miami was polarizing making them great, justified be their 30 for 30 frequency. I say that is representative of a meteoric rise and fall, more like Clemson than Bama. You point to the fact that Miami was hated. I say Clemson is equally hated evidenced by your own anger at the respect our fans give them.

You say we should still hate PSU most because of proximity and the amount of times we’ve played them. I say it was a bite of a one sided “rivalry” as they have twice the wins we do in the series. We have not played PSU regularly for about 30 years. We are as tied to the geographically as we are Rutgers, UCONN, Cornell, Colgate, Holy Cross. We’ve played every one of them more than 35 times and we will play Colgate and Holy Cross in the next two years. For the record we’ve played Pitt the most and continue to play them every year too. I made the BC comparison only because we as a fan base view them as PSU views us. You seem to only want rivalries with teams that own us. We have something like a ,350 win percentage against teams like Miami and PSU. Outside of our desire to be competitive with PSU and equalize recruiting, primarily in N.J., we have very little connection to them, especially in the last 30 years. Apart from their own stature, they may as well be Holy Cross or Army to us, a team we used to play a lot and apparently will again every so often. Even I don’t really believe that, but that is the current reality.

This leads me to Rutgers. I agree that our hatred of them boarders on irrational, and their recent performance makes it seem more so. I only justify it by saying some of that hatred is because they, and Schiano in particular, did the most damage to our recruiting dominance in NJ and continue to do that by bringing in all the B1G teams annually. As for breathing life into them, I said I wasn’t talking about success, just survival. Without the B1G invite, they are UConn which is all any of us want.

People are talking about Miami 36 years after the fact. For better or worse, Miami was special when we were interacting with them on a regular basis. Their attitude changed the game - literally.

Saying it’s bizarre to have a Miami obsession would make almost everyone who was into sports in the 80’s, 90’s, and very early 00’s weird. They, like ND was 30 years ago, were everybody’s rivals. Clemson doesn’t have an analogous storyline. For context as to how unique Miami was, it’s my opinion that Alabama could if they had a lot more attitude. They’ve had a similar run, so the jealousy factor is there, as is the annoying fan base. But the team lacks Miami’s swagger.

Do I think we should hate PSU? Yes. Is my point that we should? No. My point is that having a “past obsession” with them isn’t weird. The schools inherently interact a LOT, and we played 10x the times we have against Clemson (in football), and many more times that in other sports. Also, I have no idea how you’re determining that we don’t and didn’t have a connection to PSU. Choose your metric, but the schools are/have been very much fighting over the same space. There is and was an institutional rivalry. The same is true for Pitt, BC, and UConn (especially in basketball), and it was true for Cornell and Colgate. That kind of relationship doesn’t exist with Clemson, it hasn’t existed with Clemson, and I’m pretty confident that it won’t ever exist with Clemson.

You could make a claim that we compete with Rutgers, and we do for students, but their athletic program is, has been, and, because of NYC, almost certainly always will be a train wreck. They lack the fans and capacity to field competent teams to be worth thinking about on a large scale.

Lastly, I don’t think that this point is material, but I’m not sure how you define “survive.” The RU QB completed more passes to the KU secondary than his own receivers. I don’t mean to harp on that game. It’s just tragically indicitive of RU’s futility. Obsessing over them is like obsessing over Army sans the patriotism and history.

Net-net, obsessing over Miami and PSU in the past was normal. Either everyone was doing it, or there were strong regional and institutional reasons. Obsessing over Clemson and Rutgers now is weird, as it’s either a random school, or it’s a school too irrelevant to worry about.

 

[NJCuse97]

People are talking about Miami 36 years after the fact. For better or worse, Miami was special when we were interacting with them on a regular basis. Their attitude changed the game - literally.

Saying it’s bizarre to have a Miami obsession would make almost everyone who was into sports in the 80’s, 90’s, and very early 00’s weird. They, like ND was 30 years ago, were everybody’s rivals. Clemson doesn’t have an analogous storyline. For context as to how unique Miami was, it’s my opinion that Alabama could if they had a lot more attitude. They’ve had a similar run, so the jealousy factor is there, as is the annoying fan base. But the team lacks Miami’s swagger.

Do I think we should hate PSU? Yes. Is my point that we should? No. My point is that having a “past obsession” with them isn’t weird. The schools inherently interact a LOT, and we played 10x the times we have against Clemson (in football), and many more times that in other sports. Also, I have no idea how you’re determining that we don’t and didn’t have a connection to PSU. Choose your metric, but the schools are/have been very much fighting over the same space. There is and was an institutional rivalry. The same is true for Pitt, BC, and UConn (especially in basketball), and it was true for Cornell and Colgate. That kind of relationship doesn’t exist with Clemson, it hasn’t existed with Clemson, and I’m pretty confident that it won’t ever exist with Clemson.

You could make a claim that we compete with Rutgers, and we do for students, but their athletic program is, has been, and, because of NYC, almost certainly always will be a train wreck. They lack the fans and capacity to field competent teams to be worth thinking about on a large scale.

Lastly, I don’t think that this point is material, but I’m not sure how you define “survive.” The RU QB completed more passes to the KU secondary than his own receivers. I don’t mean to harp on that game. It’s just tragically indicitive of RU’s futility. Obsessing over them is like obsessing over Army sans the patriotism and history.

Net-net, obsessing over Miami and PSU in the past was normal. Either everyone was doing it, or there were strong regional and institutional reasons. Obsessing over Clemson and Rutgers now is weird, as it’s either a random school, or it’s a school too irrelevant to worry about.

Miami and PSU are the past. Agreed. Clemson is the present and future. I don’t think they will suddenly fall off at least until Dabo is gone, Miami fell off due to coaching turnover. Even cheating didn’t quite hurt them as much because to an extent, it fit their reputation. Bama to me is so much more a Texas, Oklahoma, Nebraska type blue blood.

Rutgers hate is less relevant, but more real because of proximity, recent history, and familiarity. A large portion of SU’s student population is from NJ. A large portion of SU alumni live in NJ. To me, it isn’t about on field, it’s just about wanting to end them. Yes Kansas beat them. Kansas also just got a commitment from a 5 star LB who wants to play for a rising program. When’s the last time we did that? My point stands that B1G money is their life support, it’s not a measure of performance. That money is what stops them from falling to independent status like UCONN just did, meaning we will continue to see them in media no matter how bad, and they will continue to host OSU, Mich, PSU, etc. in our backyard recruiting ground.

 

[GoSU96]

He's a creep, Clemson sucks, and this site's obsession with that school is almost as bizarre as its obsession with Rutgers. I'm willing to overlook the Clemson obsession because at least they're good at football, but it's still weird.

It's the same "obsession" that fans and coaches of this program have had with Penn St. and Miami in the past.

Nothing bizarre about it at all.
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Penn State is relevant, unlike Rutgers, and they’re one of our most played opponents (71 games), unlike Clemson. They’re also 4 hours away (driving on Pennsyltucky highways) from the Dome, meaning our fan bases touch each other and the schools recruit athletes and students against each other. Clemson, on the other hand, is about a 4 hour plane ride, and Rutgers doesn’t have fans in appreciable numbers in any sport.

The two situations aren’t even remotely similar.

**Speaking to Miami because I left that out of my reply... everyone had an obsession with Miami back in the day. They were like Saban’s Alabama teams, only with game-changing attitude. Neither Clemson nor Rutgers accurately approximates that kind of environment.
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Rutgers, who cares.

Here's why PSU, Miami, and now Clemson are "obsessions", they were/are the best teams SU plays every year. They are the measuring stick. Get it.

 

[TexanMark]

I heard enough about Kiffens’ mother to last a lifetime.

7 years ago! Damn we are getting old.

Hey on the bright side he is Facebook Friends with Layla after the divorce.

 

[CUTater]

Generally, Clemson fans are very tolerable. And as others have stated, every fanbase has its idiots. They do seem very thin skinned though, probably because they had to endure years of owning that infamous choke label, ie: “Clemsoning”. People tend to forget, but their “rock bottom” was 70-33 vs WVU.
We can fully expect to see the “other side” of Clemson, after we beat them.

If that were really rock bottom, I’d be glad, but it wasn’t. Being blown on sucks, but we won the ACC and were in the orange bowl. There were far worse moments.

 

[ForCuseSake]

If that were really rock bottom, I’d be glad, but it wasn’t. Being blown on sucks, but we won the ACC and were in the orange bowl. There were far worse moments.

Excellent typo & pun combo. Chip approves but certainly disagrees.

 

[JoeSU]

It’s great that Clemson beats Alabama but they have some dirty players. Our long snapper last year got taken out on dirty play and who was that LB they had? The one that suplexed one of our players(Strickland?) a few years ago?

Ben Boulware, I think.
I checked and after being signed by Carolina as an UFA in 2017, he's currently not playing anywhere.

 

[nzm136]

It's the same "obsession" that fans and coaches of this program have had with Penn St. and Miami in the past.

Nothing bizarre about it at all.

Penn State is relevant, unlike Rutgers, and they’re one of our most played opponents (71 games), unlike Clemson. They’re also 4 hours away (driving on Pennsyltucky highways) from the Dome, meaning our fan bases touch each other and the schools recruit athletes and students against each other. Clemson, on the other hand, is about a 4 hour plane ride, and Rutgers doesn’t have fans in appreciable numbers in any sport.

The two situations aren’t even remotely similar.

**Speaking to Miami because I left that out of my reply... everyone had an obsession with Miami back in the day. They were like Saban’s Alabama teams, only with game-changing attitude. Neither Clemson nor Rutgers accurately approximates that kind of environment.
[/QUOTE]

Rutgers, who cares.

Here's why PSU, Miami, and now Clemson are "obsessions", they were/are the best teams SU plays every year. They are the measuring stick. Get it.
[/QUOTE]
That’s a stupid reason to obsess, it’s wrong to think that SU-Miami and SU-PSU were purely driven by Miami/PSU being good, and the resulting obsession from that mentality is bizarre.

If your theory is that there is no difference between PSU/Miami of the pre-90’s and 90’s, and Clemson, then you’re missing a material amount of context. Hating Miami made sense. Hating PSU made sense. Obsessing over Clemson is like obsessing over a high school crush. It’s kind of pathetic, which is why it’s bizarre. What if FSU got good again, and Clemson fell off? Should we then tape new pictures in our locker?

Seriously though, if being good and playing consistently are your two criteria, then what differentiates you from Rutgers fans obsess over Michigan, Penn State, Michigan State, and Ohio State? Or UK fans obsessing over Florida and Georgia? Or KU fans obsessing over Texas and Oklahoma?

I think that we can all agree that RU’s relationship with Ohio State is in name at best. RU cashed Ohio State’s checks, RU fans proudly advertise the idea that the two schools are the same, Ohio State tries to forget that the Scarlet Knights exist, and the rest of the world thinks guys like RutgersAl are ...off.

 

[dollarbill44]

Penn State is relevant, unlike Rutgers, and they’re one of our most played opponents (71 games), unlike Clemson. They’re also 4 hours away (driving on Pennsyltucky highways) from the Dome, meaning our fan bases touch each other and the schools recruit athletes and students against each other. Clemson, on the other hand, is about a 4 hour plane ride, and Rutgers doesn’t have fans in appreciable numbers in any sport.

The two situations aren’t even remotely similar.

**Speaking to Miami because I left that out of my reply... everyone had an obsession with Miami back in the day. They were like Saban’s Alabama teams, only with game-changing attitude. Neither Clemson nor Rutgers accurately approximates that kind of environment.

Rutgers, who cares.

Here's why PSU, Miami, and now Clemson are "obsessions", they were/are the best teams SU plays every year. They are the measuring stick. Get it.
[/QUOTE]
That’s a stupid reason to obsess, it’s wrong to think that SU-Miami and SU-PSU were purely driven by Miami/PSU being good, and the resulting obsession from that mentality is bizarre.

If your theory is that there is no difference between PSU/Miami of the pre-90’s and 90’s, and Clemson, then you’re missing a material amount of context. Hating Miami made sense. Hating PSU made sense. Obsessing over Clemson is like obsessing over a high school crush. It’s kind of pathetic, which is why it’s bizarre. What if FSU got good again, and Clemson fell off? Should we then tape new pictures in our locker?

Seriously though, if being good and playing consistently are your two criteria, then what differentiates you from Rutgers fans obsess over Michigan, Penn State, Michigan State, and Ohio State? Or UK fans obsessing over Florida and Georgia? Or KU fans obsessing over Texas and Oklahoma?

I think that we can all agree that RU’s relationship with Ohio State is in name at best. RU cashed Ohio State’s checks, RU fans proudly advertise the idea that the two schools are the same, Ohio State tries to forget that the Scarlet Knights exist, and the rest of the world thinks guys like RutgersAl are ...off.
[/QUOTE]
The PSU obsession is over, except for people 50+. I doubt anyone who became a fan of SU after 1990 thinks much about PSU. We don't compete with them in sports very often anymore and for only a handful of football recruits every year - about the same number as with Clemson. But, the average fan (not those of us on here) doesn't really follow recruiting closely enough to care.
The Miami vitriol has faded since they left the BE. The current obsession right now is Clemson, whether you like it or not, and regardless of how appropriate you think it is. They are the best team in the ACC for the last 4/5 years and are set up to continue to be the top team, which makes them our #1 target every year. It's not weird, it makes sense.

 

[nzm136]

Rutgers, who cares.

Here's why PSU, Miami, and now Clemson are "obsessions", they were/are the best teams SU plays every year. They are the measuring stick. Get it.

That’s a stupid reason to obsess, it’s wrong to think that SU-Miami and SU-PSU were purely driven by Miami/PSU being good, and the resulting obsession from that mentality is bizarre.

If your theory is that there is no difference between PSU/Miami of the pre-90’s and 90’s, and Clemson, then you’re missing a material amount of context. Hating Miami made sense. Hating PSU made sense. Obsessing over Clemson is like obsessing over a high school crush. It’s kind of pathetic, which is why it’s bizarre. What if FSU got good again, and Clemson fell off? Should we then tape new pictures in our locker?

Seriously though, if being good and playing consistently are your two criteria, then what differentiates you from Rutgers fans obsess over Michigan, Penn State, Michigan State, and Ohio State? Or UK fans obsessing over Florida and Georgia? Or KU fans obsessing over Texas and Oklahoma?

I think that we can all agree that RU’s relationship with Ohio State is in name at best. RU cashed Ohio State’s checks, RU fans proudly advertise the idea that the two schools are the same, Ohio State tries to forget that the Scarlet Knights exist, and the rest of the world thinks guys like RutgersAl are ...off.
[/QUOTE]
The PSU obsession is over, except for people 50+. I doubt anyone who became a fan of SU after 1990 thinks much about PSU. We don't compete with them in sports very often anymore and for only a handful of football recruits every year - about the same number as with Clemson. But, the average fan (not those of us on here) doesn't really follow recruiting closely enough to care.
The Miami vitriol has faded since they left the BE. The current obsession right now is Clemson, whether you like it or not, and regardless of how appropriate you think it is. They are the best team in the ACC for the last 4/5 years and are set up to continue to be the top team, which makes them our #1 target every year. It's not weird, it makes sense.
[/QUOTE]
1. Your points about Miami and PSU are irrelevant to the premise that this board's obsession with Clemson and Rutgers is weird, unless you contend that PSU of pre-1990 and Miami of pre-2003 equals Clemson today. If that's your contention, then I think you're missing a significant amount of the context to those games.
2. I don't think that the average Syracuse fans is obsessed with Clemson. I think this site is, but not the average Joe. I'd argue that Clemson is just a name to the average SU fan. It's no different than Ohio State, Alabama, Georgia, or any other team that has won or has been in serious contention to win a title in the recent past. But again, whether or not the average fan sees Clemson as a rival is not what's being argued.
3. The sole point being argued is whether this site has a weird obsession (I don't know another word to describe it) with Clemson. Chasing flavor of the week teams gives off a middle school dating vibe (due to the potential for constant flux) mixed with a raging inferiority complex (due to the envy, which I assume is the motivating factor). You randomly concluding that obsessing over school with a 7 game shared history that's 4-5 states away makes sense doesn't make it so. Take the emotion out of the equation, and look at a set of different schools. Rutgers beating the B1G drum to highlight a strained relationship with athletics programs that have almost nothing to do with them is weird, and it's only vaguely different than you trying to invent a context with Clemson.
4. The following is immaterial to the actual debate, but I'm a stickler for accuracy, and the fact that Miami and PSU still get brought up in threads speaks volumes. It's also worth noting that it's not just in this context. Compare the way that we see the world to a random school. I doubt Texas Tech boards had as many PSU threads as we have over the last decade that covered the scandal(s). I also doubt that the average TTech poster would immediately know who 'the cult' was without any other context.

 

[TheCusian]

This thread went off the rails for a bit lol

We’re obsessed with Clemson because a) the college football world is and b) they are the best team in our conference and we play them every year and c) they are the team we need to beat the most to get to a once unthinkable goal of a playoff spot

We’re not obsessed with Rutgers. They are a team we used to beat on that has gone on to the most amazing run of horrible and funny decisions any CFB team has. I spent vacation around a bunch of big 10 fans (Wisconsin and Penn St) and they share our view

 

[orangecuse]

Penn State is relevant, unlike Rutgers, and they’re one of our most played opponents (71 games), unlike Clemson. They’re also 4 hours away (driving on Pennsyltucky highways) from the Dome, meaning our fan bases touch each other and the schools recruit athletes and students against each other. Clemson, on the other hand, is about a 4 hour plane ride, and Rutgers doesn’t have fans in appreciable numbers in any sport.

4 hour plane ride? Maybe for Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. It's approximately a1 hour 44 minute flight from Syracuse to Greenville/Spartanburg Airport; 655 air miles.; 569 nautical miles.

 

[GoSU96]

That’s a stupid reason to obsess, it’s wrong to think that SU-Miami and SU-PSU were purely driven by Miami/PSU being good, and the resulting obsession from that mentality is bizarre.

If your theory is that there is no difference between PSU/Miami of the pre-90’s and 90’s, and Clemson, then you’re missing a material amount of context. Hating Miami made sense. Hating PSU made sense. Obsessing over Clemson is like obsessing over a high school crush. It’s kind of pathetic, which is why it’s bizarre. What if FSU got good again, and Clemson fell off? Should we then tape new pictures in our locker?

Seriously though, if being good and playing consistently are your two criteria, then what differentiates you from Rutgers fans obsess over Michigan, Penn State, Michigan State, and Ohio State? Or UK fans obsessing over Florida and Georgia? Or KU fans obsessing over Texas and Oklahoma?

I think that we can all agree that RU’s relationship with Ohio State is in name at best. RU cashed Ohio State’s checks, RU fans proudly advertise the idea that the two schools are the same, Ohio State tries to forget that the Scarlet Knights exist, and the rest of the world thinks guys like RutgersAl are ...off.

The PSU obsession is over, except for people 50+. I doubt anyone who became a fan of SU after 1990 thinks much about PSU. We don't compete with them in sports very often anymore and for only a handful of football recruits every year - about the same number as with Clemson. But, the average fan (not those of us on here) doesn't really follow recruiting closely enough to care.
The Miami vitriol has faded since they left the BE. The current obsession right now is Clemson, whether you like it or not, and regardless of how appropriate you think it is. They are the best team in the ACC for the last 4/5 years and are set up to continue to be the top team, which makes them our #1 target every year. It's not weird, it makes sense.
[/QUOTE]
1. Your points about Miami and PSU are irrelevant to the premise that this board's obsession with Clemson and Rutgers is weird, unless you contend that PSU of pre-1990 and Miami of pre-2003 equals Clemson today. If that's your contention, then I think you're missing a significant amount of the context to those games.
2. I don't think that the average Syracuse fans is obsessed with Clemson. I think this site is, but not the average Joe. I'd argue that Clemson is just a name to the average SU fan. It's no different than Ohio State, Alabama, Georgia, or any other team that has won or has been in serious contention to win a title in the recent past. But again, whether or not the average fan sees Clemson as a rival is not what's being argued.
3. The sole point being argued is whether this site has a weird obsession (I don't know another word to describe it) with Clemson. Chasing flavor of the week teams gives off a middle school dating vibe (due to the potential for constant flux) mixed with a raging inferiority complex (due to the envy, which I assume is the motivating factor). You randomly concluding that obsessing over school with a 7 game shared history that's 4-5 states away makes sense doesn't make it so. Take the emotion out of the equation, and look at a set of different schools. Rutgers beating the B1G drum to highlight a strained relationship with athletics programs that have almost nothing to do with them is weird, and it's only vaguely different than you trying to invent a context with Clemson.
4. The following is immaterial to the actual debate, but I'm a stickler for accuracy, and the fact that Miami and PSU still get brought up in threads speaks volumes. It's also worth noting that it's not just in this context. Compare the way that we see the world to a random school. I doubt Texas Tech boards had as many PSU threads as we have over the last decade that covered the scandal(s). I also doubt that the average TTech poster would immediately know who 'the cult' was without any other context.
[/QUOTE]

You seem awfully worked up and wrong headed about this whole thing. Again to keeping beating the obvious point, the Clemson is the new measuring stick in the ACC, and in the division in particular, just like Miami was in the BE and PSU was as a north east independent.

Saying Clemson is just a name is ridiculous. Winning the division goes through them until further notice. It's not obsession, it's understanding reality, there's not need to invent a context.

 

[TexanMark]

4 hour plane ride? Maybe for Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. It's approximately a1 hour 44 minute flight from Syracuse to Greenville/Spartanburg Airport; 655 air miles.; 569 nautical miles.

+1 for use of nautical miles.

Also, when I flew we never used statute miles or statute miles per hour

It is always Knots and nautical miles per hour

Next week we'll talk about how to adjust between equivalent and calibarated airspeed on our way to find our True Air Speed

 

[HtownOrange]

+1 for use of nautical miles.

Also, when I flew we never used statute miles or statute miles per hour

It is always Knots and nautical miles per hour

Next week we'll talk about how to adjust between equivalent and calibarated airspeed on our way to find our True Air Speed

I used to calibrate Attitude Checkers in the Air Force. Mark's attitude I great (roll, pitch and yaw),...oh, yeah, so is his Orange fandom attitude.