So Are We Going to Pretend

[hungrychuck]

Oklahoma was a better team. We were a 10 seed who earned its Final Four and Oklahoma was a top 10 team all year.
In a 1 game scenario anybody can beat anybody.

If you look at the entire season, I'd agree. If you look at performance in the Final Four, Oklahoma was clearly the worst of the four teams there.

 

[HoustonCuse]

If you look at the entire season, I'd agree. If you look at performance in the Final Four, Oklahoma was clearly the worst of the four teams there.

I don't like this. Semantics, I guess, but teams who make the Final Four should never described as "worst" at anything. It is an amazing accomplishment requiring skill, toughness, discipline, some luck, mental fortitude, and a lot more.

 

[Townie72]

That we didn't just lose in the Final Four to the school we've been complaining about for 2 years for not getting any sanctions yet.

Are we going to forget that we weren't as good a team as we could've been if we didn't get sanctioned and then lost to UNC who was at full strength when they should've been disciplined far more severely than we ever was.

Now that Syracuse has been whitewashed with this Final Four run I see we no longer have the NCAA board (unless I'm not seeing it?). I guess we can now pretend that whole thing never happened. The NCAA must love that.

We got to the Final Four guys, but we were screwed again. What good is a Final Four run, if the NCAA rigs the odds in the other teams favor once we get there?

I've read this post a couple of time and still can't figure out just what the poster is suggesting.

First of all, SU did violate some rules. I get why they did it. But they did do it and they confessed to it. The writing of term papers for Fab Melo by a secretary in the Athletic Department is not, IMO, a minor violation. It's certainly not the first time it's happened at a school. (John Thompson Jr had a ex-nun of the staff and I thought her primary job was writing term papers for the players. Have you ever heard Reggie Williams speak? The idea Reggie could write a satisfactory term paper for an upper division Georgetown class is a ridiculous concept.)

So we confessed and UNC hasn't yet. And we fans are supposed to be outraged at this?What is it that we are supposed to think or do?

Do we (the fans? the School?) just continue to complain about how unfair the treatment was. Does SU file a suit? (I'd feel a lot more enthusiastic about this if our own linen was spotless.)

Do we stop trying in basketball? After all, "What good is a Final Four run?" With the Tournament is rigged against us, it's pointless.

Let's stop complaining. Learn from our mistakes. Get to work. Accept that the world is unfair.

Do any of you really think Louisville is running a "clean" program with academically-qualified student athletes?

 

[HOFCeluck]

I'm rooting for UNC tonight. nova.

 

[OGBJ20]

Syracuse fought the ban as hard as they could. We had people on this board telling us that no ban was a nonstarter. Thus, 2015 basketball team fell on a grenade to save the Lydon/Richardson/Diagne recruiting class.

If the penalty was coming down during the 25-0 start in the 2014 season we don't self ban we take the ban in 2015.

We did what was smart. Just admitting this isn't wrong.

It was a roll of the dice because you never knew when the ncaa would act on the sanctions. Just so happened to be 2015 season and the rest is history. It worked out for the best for SU which turned into a great season and gave others a fresh start. I however felt bad for Rak being his senior season and all. Nothing wrong with that if you understood the issues at hand.

 

[Alsacs]

It was a roll of the dice because you never knew when the ncaa would act on the sanctions. Just so happened to be 2015 season and the rest is history. It worked out for the best for SU which turned into a great season and gave others a fresh start. I however felt bad for Rak being his senior season and all. Nothing wrong with that if you understood the issues at hand.

We took the proactive approach. It sucks for the kids on the team but school read tea leafs and took the hit for a team that wasn't likely to make the tournament. The NCAA couldn't justify giving us a 2 year ban so by Syracuse self taking it in 2015 the NCAA's hands were tied.

For Rak the team did go out of its way to make him part of the celebration last weekend in Chicago. They gave him a piece of the net.

 

[OGBJ20]

We took the proactive approach. It sucks for the kids on the team but school read tea leafs and took the hit for a team that wasn't likely to make the tournament. The NCAA couldn't justify giving us a 2 year ban so by Syracuse self taking it in 2015 the NCAA's hands were tied.

For Rak the team did go out of its way to make him part of the celebration last weekend in Chicago. They gave him a piece of the net.

That's cool. I agree that sacrifices needed to be made in this case. I had a loooong talk with JB. We did the same acknowledgment with Nova's D. Reynolds during BJ's state title at LM. He and BJ were teammates the year before in the states.

 

[Dave85]

Bryant. Last I checked UNC score 50 points in the paint.

Plus the games we lost during Boeheim's suspension.

And most importantly, it's the principle of it. They did far worse, and were not punished yet. We did barely anything, and were punished severely. Yet look who we lose to in the Final Four. The "superior" team.

It's a joke.

Bryant's mother.

 

[Dave85]

I think the argument is that because other non-athlete students participated in the fake classes and program, the athletes did not receive an "extra" benefit that was not available to other non athletes. As such, it is not an NCAA issue.

Never mind the padded GPA scores every other team has to maintain?

 

[Dave85]

I've read this post a couple of time and still can't figure out just what the poster is suggesting.

First of all, SU did violate some rules. I get why they did it. But they did do it and they confessed to it. The writing of term papers for Fab Melo by a secretary in the Athletic Department is not, IMO, a minor violation. It's certainly not the first time it's happened at a school. (John Thompson Jr had a ex-nun of the staff and I thought her primary job was writing term papers for the players. Have you ever heard Reggie Williams speak? The idea Reggie could write a satisfactory term paper for an upper division Georgetown class is a ridiculous concept.)

So we confessed and UNC hasn't yet. And we fans are supposed to be outraged at this?What is it that we are supposed to think or do?

Do we (the fans? the School?) just continue to complain about how unfair the treatment was. Does SU file a suit? (I'd feel a lot more enthusiastic about this if our own linen was spotless.)

Do we stop trying in basketball? After all, "What good is a Final Four run?" With the Tournament is rigged against us, it's pointless.

Let's stop complaining. Learn from our mistakes. Get to work. Accept that the world is unfair.

Do any of you really think Louisville is running a "clean" program with academically-qualified student athletes?

It does seem like the NCAA, the referees, are calling the game the same way for all programs. I think they hammered us pretty hard. Especially taking away JB's wins was over the top. I would like to hope at some point UNC get's some kind of punishment for 20 years of fake classes with automatic A's on the transcript for student athletes. The idea that the fake classes were available to all students makes it alright seems completely out of the spirit of having the NCAA regulate anything. I know it's not foul unless the referee calls it. However, what the heck! At some point if you do not have any rules it ceases to be a game and turns into championship wrestling. Maybe that's what the NCAA wants anyway. What do they care. It's all about branding and making their 700 million from the CBS-Turner TV contract.

I wonder how the NCAA is going to deal with Pitino's under-aged hookers provided to potential recruits. That one seems like we may see real police indictments. That's a real scandal when police indictments are actually handed about.

 

[Jack Hall]

I think the argument is that because other non-athlete students participated in the fake classes and program, the athletes did not receive an "extra" benefit that was not available to other non athletes. As such, it is not an NCAA issue.

Yes i am just figuring out that subtlety. I can see why unc is making that clever argument but doesnt change the fact, just like Fab (who was suspended twice obviously) a ton of those players were never eligible at all in a true academic sense. In fact i dont know how anybody can argue otherwise with a straight face. I really dont see how what non athletes were supposedly doing changes anything?

 

[Jack Hall]

I think the argument is that because other non-athlete students participated in the fake classes and program, the athletes did not receive an "extra" benefit that was not available to other non athletes. As such, it is not an NCAA issue.

So an analogous argument is that a hs player took fake classes to get himself eligible for college, but yet other non athletes took those same fake classes in hs. Guess what , if that happened that hs player would be ruled ineligible. Just like Diagne was. How is it not more or less the same exact thing?

 

[Madbiker]

Now how is the NCAA going to punish them?

"OK everybody, we're going to pretend UNC never went to the Championship game. OK?"

They shouldn't have even been eligible for the tournament for 3 years. They should be wiping 3 losing seasons from their record, not a National Championship run.

IMO the NCAA will give the UNC football team a 1 year bowl ban and dock them some ships, women's basketball will be given a 1 year post season ban and docked 2 ships. Men's basketball will get NO post season ban and be docked 1 ship for 3 years and have a few recruiting visit restrictions. In short, not much. UNC men's basketball is going to be protected.

 

[sabach]

So an analogous argument is that a hs player took fake classes to get himself eligible for college, but yet other non athletese took those same fake classes in hs. Guess what , if that happened that hs player would be ruled ineligible. Just like Diagne was. How is it not more or less the same exact thing?

I think there may be different standards with regards to eligibility to get cleared by the NCAA to play in the first place and then eligibility standards for each member school once that player is enrolled. Different schools have different standards for academic eligibility to play. Where the NCAA is concerned is when athletes have special standards to allow them to play that are not applicable to other students who do not play (i.e. "extra benefit"). In this case, UNC is making the argument that its entire University's academic program was so piss poor in this area, it is proof that athletes were not being given extra benefits. It's not the greatest argument to make for the academic pride of the school, (or its accreditation for that matter) but it very well may carry the day with the NCAA.

 

[Jack Hall]

IMO the NCAA will give the UNC football team a 1 year bowl ban and dock them some ships, women's basketball will be given a 1 year post season ban and docked 2 ships. Men's basketball will get NO post season ban and be docked 1 ship for 3 years and have a few recruiting visit restrictions. In short, not much. UNC men's basketball is going to be protected.

Yep, they have their ducks all lined up in a row: no "extra" benefits lol, Roy didnt know what was going on (how are you ever going to prove that?), and as Roy said- there are no specific allegations against his program. I wouldnt be surprised if Roy has already gotten the all clear sign

 

[Jack Hall]

I think there may be different standards with regards to eligibility to get cleared by the NCAA to play in the first place and then eligibility standards for each member school once that player is enrolled. Different schools have different standards for academic eligibility to play. Where the NCAA is concerned is when athletes have special standards to allow them to play that are not applicable to other students who do not play (i.e. "extra benefit"). In this case, UNC is making the argument that its entire University's academic program was so piss pour in this area, it is proof that athletes were not being given extra benefits. It's not the greatest argument to make for the academic pride of the school, (or its accreditation for that matter) but it very well may carry the day with the NCAA.

God Bless America!

 

[sabach]

God Bless America!

"It's Amazing", to coin a phrase.

 

[triplethrea]

I've read this post a couple of time and still can't figure out just what the poster is suggesting.

First of all, SU did violate some rules. I get why they did it. But they did do it and they confessed to it. The writing of term papers for Fab Melo by a secretary in the Athletic Department is not, IMO, a minor violation. It's certainly not the first time it's happened at a school. (John Thompson Jr had a ex-nun of the staff and I thought her primary job was writing term papers for the players. Have you ever heard Reggie Williams speak? The idea Reggie could write a satisfactory term paper for an upper division Georgetown class is a ridiculous concept.)

So we confessed and UNC hasn't yet. And we fans are supposed to be outraged at this?What is it that we are supposed to think or do?

Do we (the fans? the School?) just continue to complain about how unfair the treatment was. Does SU file a suit? (I'd feel a lot more enthusiastic about this if our own linen was spotless.)

Do we stop trying in basketball? After all, "What good is a Final Four run?" With the Tournament is rigged against us, it's pointless.

Let's stop complaining. Learn from our mistakes. Get to work. Accept that the world is unfair.

Do any of you really think Louisville is running a "clean" program with academically-qualified student athletes?

I reread my OP and agree it could have been worded better. Let me rephrase.

1. Syracuse fans have been suffering for several years due to strong sanctions against us.
2. UNC has committed far worse things (perhaps 100:1 scale) and has not yet been punished in anyway whatsoever.
3. Syracuse goes on a miracle run and loses in the Final Four to UNC.
4. It is an absolute injustice and sign of corruption from within the NCAA that UNC has gone unpunished and continues to reap rewards, at the expense of Syracuse which is forced to overcome it's sanctions.

I hope that explains my reasoning better. What further annoyed me was how quick this board got amnesia about the whole UNC/Syracuse situation, and the disappearance of the NCAA board (which I frankly would have continued posting in) which was nothing but bad PR for the NCAA.

We've been complaining for a few years about the UNC/Syracuse situation, and then we lose to them in the Final Four...and silence? Weird.

Why did Syracuse self-report? Can somebody explain that to me? I get that "they hoped for lesser sanctions", but when did multi-million dollar institutions get so damn honest? It smells funny.

Who owns this board? I understand it is an offshoot of the old Scout board (am I right about that?). Scout is owned by a private equity firm held by Robert Pittman, who is the head of IHeartRadio or formerly Clear Channel, which I believe was acquired by Bain and Capital, Romney's old company.

Mitt Romney’s Final NCAA Bracket Was Frighteningly Accurate 

Small world.

I've been screaming at the top of my lungs on this board that nearly all major recruits get paid by schools, explained to me by a source that is highly reputable, which means the entire NCAA punishment system is a PR racket. So I KNOW these Syracuse and UNC sanctions are PR nonsense. Just read over Syracuse's violations one more time, complete nonsense. Driving a player too far away?

So if you follow along with me on my theory, why would Syracuse take such a heavy blow voluntarily? Were they promised something? Perhaps a Final Four run? Perhaps UNC was promised the same thing? Perhaps the only reason the NCAA punishes these schools is to continue the public appearance of taking amateurism seriously.

For those that are open-minded about this, please PM me and we can talk further. I understand that liking what I'm saying is practically social suicide on here, so if you feel more comfortable discussing this in private, let me know. I'd love to get some insider info from those in the know who feel frustrated they can't talk about this kind of stuff in the open.

 

[HOFCeluck]

I reread my OP and agree it could have been worded better. Let me rephrase.

1. Syracuse fans have been suffering for several years due to strong sanctions against us.
2. UNC has committed far worse things (perhaps 100:1 scale) and has not yet been punished in anyway whatsoever.
3. Syracuse goes on a miracle run and loses in the Final Four to UNC.
4. It is an absolute injustice and sign of corruption from within the NCAA that UNC has gone unpunished and continues to reap rewards, at the expense of Syracuse which is forced to overcome it's sanctions.

I hope that explains my reasoning better. What further annoyed me was how quick this board got amnesia about the whole UNC/Syracuse situation, and the disappearance of the NCAA board (which I frankly would have continued posting in) which was nothing but bad PR for the NCAA.

We've been complaining for a few years about the UNC/Syracuse situation, and then we lose to them in the Final Four...and silence? Weird.

Why did Syracuse self-report? Can somebody explain that to me? I get that "they hoped for lesser sanctions", but when did multi-million dollar institutions get so damn honest? It smells funny.

Who owns this board? I understand it is an offshoot of the old Scout board (am I right about that?). Scout is owned by a private equity firm held by Robert Pittman, who is the head of IHeartRadio or formerly Clear Channel, which I believe was acquired by Bain and Capital, Romney's old company.

Mitt Romney’s Final NCAA Bracket Was Frighteningly Accurate

Small world.

I've been screaming at the top of my lungs on this board that nearly all major recruits get paid by schools, explained to me by a source that is highly reputable, which means the entire NCAA punishment system is a PR racket. So I KNOW these Syracuse and UNC sanctions are PR nonsense. Just read over Syracuse's violations one more time, complete nonsense. Driving a player too far away?

So if you follow along with me on my theory, why would Syracuse take such a heavy blow voluntarily? Were they promised something? Perhaps a Final Four run? Perhaps UNC was promised the same thing? Perhaps the only reason the NCAA punishes these schools is to continue the public appearance of taking amateurism seriously.

For those that are open-minded about this, please PM me and we can talk further. I understand that liking what I'm saying is practically social suicide on here, so if you feel more comfortable discussing this in private, let me know. I'd love to get some insider info from those in the know who feel frustrated they can't talk about this kind of stuff in the open.

What did I just read

 

[dasher]

I reread my OP and agree it could have been worded better. Let me rephrase.

1. Syracuse fans have been suffering for several years due to strong sanctions against us.
2. UNC has committed far worse things (perhaps 100:1 scale) and has not yet been punished in anyway whatsoever.
3. Syracuse goes on a miracle run and loses in the Final Four to UNC.
4. It is an absolute injustice and sign of corruption from within the NCAA that UNC has gone unpunished and continues to reap rewards, at the expense of Syracuse which is forced to overcome it's sanctions.

I hope that explains my reasoning better. What further annoyed me was how quick this board got amnesia about the whole UNC/Syracuse situation, and the disappearance of the NCAA board (which I frankly would have continued posting in) which was nothing but bad PR for the NCAA.

We've been complaining for a few years about the UNC/Syracuse situation, and then we lose to them in the Final Four...and silence? Weird.

Why did Syracuse self-report? Can somebody explain that to me? I get that "they hoped for lesser sanctions", but when did multi-million dollar institutions get so damn honest? It smells funny.

Who owns this board? I understand it is an offshoot of the old Scout board (am I right about that?). Scout is owned by a private equity firm held by Robert Pittman, who is the head of IHeartRadio or formerly Clear Channel, which I believe was acquired by Bain and Capital, Romney's old company.

Mitt Romney’s Final NCAA Bracket Was Frighteningly Accurate

Small world.

I've been screaming at the top of my lungs on this board that nearly all major recruits get paid by schools, explained to me by a source that is highly reputable, which means the entire NCAA punishment system is a PR racket. So I KNOW these Syracuse and UNC sanctions are PR nonsense. Just read over Syracuse's violations one more time, complete nonsense. Driving a player too far away?

So if you follow along with me on my theory, why would Syracuse take such a heavy blow voluntarily? Were they promised something? Perhaps a Final Four run? Perhaps UNC was promised the same thing? Perhaps the only reason the NCAA punishes these schools is to continue the public appearance of taking amateurism seriously.

For those that are open-minded about this, please PM me and we can talk further. I understand that liking what I'm saying is practically social suicide on here, so if you feel more comfortable discussing this in private, let me know. I'd love to get some insider info from those in the know who feel frustrated they can't talk about this kind of stuff in the open.

It is next to impossible in our society to keep a big secret. You somewhat suggest that NCAA tournament games are fixed. I'm sorry but I think that is ridiculous. Why would the nCAA get involved with something like that? There is no great rooting interest for them. You also suggest that all top recruits are bought and paid for. I think there is a great deal of chicanery in recruiting. But I don't believe that it so corrupt that everyone is cheating. Once again, that would be impossible to keep quiet. Syracuse self reported because that is what the NCAA requires. other schools do it all the time.

 

[Delmar]

Now I understand everything.

 

[br801]

I reread my OP and agree it could have been worded better. Let me rephrase.

1. Syracuse fans have been suffering for several years due to strong sanctions against us.
2. UNC has committed far worse things (perhaps 100:1 scale) and has not yet been punished in anyway whatsoever.
3. Syracuse goes on a miracle run and loses in the Final Four to UNC.
4. It is an absolute injustice and sign of corruption from within the NCAA that UNC has gone unpunished and continues to reap rewards, at the expense of Syracuse which is forced to overcome it's sanctions.

I hope that explains my reasoning better. What further annoyed me was how quick this board got amnesia about the whole UNC/Syracuse situation, and the disappearance of the NCAA board (which I frankly would have continued posting in) which was nothing but bad PR for the NCAA.

We've been complaining for a few years about the UNC/Syracuse situation, and then we lose to them in the Final Four...and silence? Weird.

Why did Syracuse self-report? Can somebody explain that to me? I get that "they hoped for lesser sanctions", but when did multi-million dollar institutions get so damn honest? It smells funny.

Who owns this board? I understand it is an offshoot of the old Scout board (am I right about that?). Scout is owned by a private equity firm held by Robert Pittman, who is the head of IHeartRadio or formerly Clear Channel, which I believe was acquired by Bain and Capital, Romney's old company.

Mitt Romney’s Final NCAA Bracket Was Frighteningly Accurate

Small world.

I've been screaming at the top of my lungs on this board that nearly all major recruits get paid by schools, explained to me by a source that is highly reputable, which means the entire NCAA punishment system is a PR racket. So I KNOW these Syracuse and UNC sanctions are PR nonsense. Just read over Syracuse's violations one more time, complete nonsense. Driving a player too far away?

So if you follow along with me on my theory, why would Syracuse take such a heavy blow voluntarily? Were they promised something? Perhaps a Final Four run? Perhaps UNC was promised the same thing? Perhaps the only reason the NCAA punishes these schools is to continue the public appearance of taking amateurism seriously.

For those that are open-minded about this, please PM me and we can talk further. I understand that liking what I'm saying is practically social suicide on here, so if you feel more comfortable discussing this in private, let me know. I'd love to get some insider info from those in the know who feel frustrated they can't talk about this kind of stuff in the open.

How the hell do you imagine a team could be promised a Final Four run?

 

[realorange]

How the hell do you imagine a team could be promised a Final Four run?

Beadle had the answer to that when we talked about LED lights in the new Dome. Something about what she used back in the day.

 

[CaptainJ]

When I saw the thread title(and lack of said thread), I thought this was about the Etan Thomas article on syracuse.com

The comments beneath it, and the comments under the Barkley article of his it linked to, were even battier than some of my posts on here.

As to the OP, I feel your pain. Like with the current state of affairs in America, I just (mostly) have given up complaining because I've come to see that nothing really comes of it.

 

[Rage4CUSE]

When I saw the thread title(and lack of said thread), I thought this was about the Etan Thomas article on syracuse.com

The comments beneath it, and the comments under the Barkley article of his it linked to, were even battier than some of my posts on here.

As to the OP, I feel your pain. Like with the current state of affairs in America, I just (mostly) have given up complaining because I've come to see that nothing really comes of it.

That's What happens when You live in a country of 400 million people. Now imagine you're in a country doubled that population (China) where nothing gets done until it kills somebody. http://gawker.com/woman-swallowed-alive-by-escalator-after-tossing-child-1720394410